End Game is Messy... How about just Pre 50 comms and Post 50 comms?

[Kirjalax]

So, I recently finished the story as a Sentinel, and had a really good time. I started as free to play, and enjoyed the game enough to become a subscriber. It is interesting to come from that angle, as you no longer see what was 'taken away' as many former subscribers seemed to feel strongly about, especially here, but rather you see how much is given.

 

This is my first MMO, by the way, so whatever anyone says, credit to Bioware. I never intended, or wanted, to play an MMO, yet I find myself a subscriber here. So from me at least, respect to them..

 

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I must say, however, that this whole 'end game' commendation thing is confusing, and, to me - just plain messy.

 

My guy has 400 Synthweaving so I crafted him, and some comps, Rakata belts and bracers, and, when it became available, I collected my Recruit gear. Following that, as commonly advised, I tried out dailies on Belsavis, Ilum, and the Black Hole (to date).

 

I know, or at least assume, that these things grew (evolved), but I don't see the point in having all these different types of end game commendations. Black hole dailies don't give Black Hole Comms? Why call them Black Hole then? Black Hole ones, apparently, come from other - ironically - non Black Hole activities.

 

Given my current setup, there is not a massive incentive to do any of the dailies which merely give 'daily' comms, as the step up in quality from my current gear is marginal. I am on an APAC server which does not have a large population, so things like Ops don't seem to happen much.

 

I'm obviously missing something, but I don't get why all 'elder' game commendation rewards can't be combined, and used all together, at a single vendor, not the 20+ that are all over the place now - to purchase all elder game items/mods etc. Now I don't mind splitting between PvP and PvE items/comms, but the the current system breaks the game up, makes it much more confusing, and also reduces any incentive to play the repetitive end game content.

 

Under those circumstances, adding incentives to play, rather than taking them away, would seem to be the most sensible strategy.

 

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Has the system been designed this way to protect the time that people have put in to grinding BiS gear? If so, and I don't necessarily have a problem with that, I wonder what gear will come with Rise of the Hutt Cartel, and level 55.

 

If it is better quality than the current BiS stuff, and gained cheaply, as would seem possible, how would that fit in with protecting the grind?

 

kjlx

[Master-Nala]

Yes, it would better to denominate all end-game gear in one token system and reward 'harder' content (i.e. ops) better than 'easier' content. But, the problem occurs that a large number of player will ALWAYS take the easiest path toward rewards. And so people will work out what that is and do nothing else.

 

This will invalidate any content that is seen as not being worth the time to do. For example, Section X dailies give more daily commendations than Black Hole dailies. But Section X is tedious. The Black Hole is peppy. So Black Hole gets done because it's more rewarding for time spent.

[Turshek]

It's confusing for you because you came late to the game.

 

It's just the result of the evolution of the game and how they added since launch new tiers of gear, new flashponts, new operations, different difficulty modes.

 

When the expansion will come, they should clean all this with a more straight forward progression that will probably become again more complicated with the major post-expansion patches.

[Marb]

Black Hole commendations are awarded from doing the weekly quest in applicable areas, which at present are the Black Hole and Section X.

 

The name of the comms is simply a relic from patch 1.2, as now they have become the main elder game commendation that drives end game gearing. Back then, doing the black hole weekly and killing bosses in the newly added operation was the only way to get them.

 

They are used for:

• End game crafting materials (through reverse engineering)
  
• Campaign armorings (which have the set bonus attached to them)
  
• Best in slot hazmat implants (for some classes)
  
• Various schematics for crafting crew skills
  

[LordRaeth]

They need to reform the entire system, it needs to be simple and clear, like the WoW system was around Burning Crusade or Guild Wars 2 system is now.

[Kirjalax]

I totally understand that it's confusing because I was late to TOR. That's not a problem, and I want to respect the culture of the game.

 

To me, cities which evolved naturally, e.g. London, New York, etc. can be far more interesting than those which were planned (such as Canberra (shudder)), and this craziness itself can add a certain authenticity to the subject (the game in this instance).

 

Nevertheless, when you look at it with fresh eyes, the end game product appears to be lacking. The system is cluttered, complicated, somewhat irritating, and incentive sapping. You have to do a very large amount of reading just to figure out what is going on and what you should do, and even then it is easy to misunderstand - which is hardly ideal.

 

This situation is absolutely not bad enough to make me unsubscribe, but it is enough to make me stop playing my first L50 character and move onto another.

 

I also understand the comment about invalidating hard work and incentivising the easy path. I'm not trying to redesign the game, but could achievements, new character titles, VIP areas, etc. help with that? Don't know really, just thinking...

[Sixthy]

I totally understand that it's confusing because I was late to TOR. That's not a problem, and I want to respect the culture of the game.

 

To me, cities which evolved naturally, e.g. London, New York, etc. can be far more interesting than those which were planned (such as Canberra (shudder)), and this craziness itself can add a certain authenticity to the subject (the game in this instance).

 

Nevertheless, when you look at it with fresh eyes, the end game product appears to be lacking. The system is cluttered, complicated, somewhat irritating, and incentive sapping. You have to do a very large amount of reading just to figure out what is going on and what you should do, and even then it is easy to misunderstand - which is hardly ideal.

 

This situation is absolutely not bad enough to make me unsubscribe, but it is enough to make me stop playing my first L50 character and move onto another.

 

I also understand the comment about invalidating hard work and incentivising the easy path. I'm not trying to redesign the game, but could achievements, new character titles, VIP areas, etc. help with that? Don't know really, just thinking...

 

I can see how it could be confusing for new players, but if you're enjoying the game and do wish to continue playing, then take a few minutes and read this:

 

http://dulfy.net/2012/11/28/swtor-dailies-and-pve-endgame-gearing-in-1-5/

 

Confusion should go away.

[Kirjalax]

I can see how it could be confusing for new players, but if you're enjoying the game and do wish to continue playing, then take a few minutes and read this:

 

http://dulfy.net/2012/11/28/swtor-dailies-and-pve-endgame-gearing-in-1-5/

 

Confusion should go away.

 

That's an excellent link, thank you.

 

I forgot to mention in my previous post that a possible solution to the issue of giving fair reward for completing difficult content could be:

 

1) With one set of post 50 comm's, just making sure that the number of comm's provided scales fairly to quest difficulty. I don't think somebody who can't do ops, for instance, should be penalised by never being able to purchase xx gear. But if it took that player 3-4 months, versus 1 week for a player doing hard mode quests (or whatever), that could work. So, I don't know, 1 comm for a Black Hole daily, and 100-150 comms for a high end ops mission.

 

This way, at least, players who are constrained by various issues (empty server, time/work constraints) can still achieve the absolute best level of gear etc., but must work hard for a very long time. The system would be clean, incentives still exist, and everyone can easily understand exactly where they stand.

 

2) Extremely rare unique item drops, which are exclusive to difficult quests only, and are not purchasable at comm vendors - or anywhere else.

 

It's awesome that people have put time and effort into helping other players with guides like the one from above. It would also be nice if the system was easy enough to understand that they weren't necessary!

Edited February 15, 2013 by Kirjalax