cashogy_reborn Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 i dont think you can dodge guarded damage, since you are not actually a factor in the first roll in the attack (accuracy vs defense) which determines whether the attack hits. you are a part in the second roll, which determines the actual damage (crit vs shield). i dont play a tank, but that is just how i am interpreting the way the equations and combat rolls work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) i dont think you can dodge guarded damage, since you are not actually a factor in the first roll in the attack (accuracy vs defense) which determines whether the attack hits. you are a part in the second roll, which determines the actual damage (crit vs shield). i dont play a tank, but that is just how i am interpreting the way the equations and combat rolls work It does. Go read the link Evuo provided last page. It just doesn't show up on your combat log, but you can avoid damage. Edited February 9, 2013 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It does. Go read the link Evuo provided last page. It just doesn't show up on your combat log, but you can avoid damage. interesting. would be great if bioware could give us a detailed combat log so we could see this stuff more easily. so many shortcuts taken in this game..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 interesting. would be great if bioware could give us a detailed combat log so we could see this stuff more easily. so many shortcuts taken in this game..... I'd rather they allow us to use some QoL mods like mouse over healing or shift/alt/ctrl modifier commands to keybinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'd rather they allow us to use some QoL mods like mouse over healing or shift/alt/ctrl modifier commands to keybinds. I must be misunderstanding you. You can already use shift/alt/ctrl modifiers for keybinds. You mean something besides just binding a slot to shift+F I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookind Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'd rather they allow us to use some QoL mods like mouse over healing or shift/alt/ctrl modifier commands to keybinds. we have modifiers................................................................................................................................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I must be misunderstanding you. You can already use shift/alt/ctrl modifiers for keybinds. You mean something besides just binding a slot to shift+F I assume? Yes I want a macro that allows me to use 2 or more skills with one button using modifiers like shift/alt/ctrl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Yes I want a macro that allows me to use 2 or more skills with one button using modifiers like shift/alt/ctrl. you can get a keyboard that will do that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Ah ok, I figured you must mean something along those lines but wanted to be sure =) And I agree 100%. The fact that you can basically so a work around with keyboards doesn't mean it shouldn't be in game =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senga_J Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So nice try by the OP to get some meaningful testing out. I think his conclusions are basically sound except as pointed out by the poster above me. You were attacking a target with different amounts of expertise. To make a true and proper comparison you should have both attacked a common target with some fixed value of Expertise. Then did the same math and found the answer. The OP's friend did more damage than the OP because he had more expertise (and therefore more damage boost) AND you had less Expertise (and therefore less damage mitigation). The OP did less damage than his friend because the friend had MORE EXPERTISE (which mitigated more damage). This is the flaw of this method. The following being the real TL;DR thread message. 1. The difference between 1200 Expertise and Max Expertise is on the order of 1%. 2. Because the game is so broken (TTK is far too short and CC is out of control broken) 1% won't matter. 3. You can save money and don't bother with expensive PvE gear as a supplement to your PvP gear. /thread Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 you can get a keyboard that will do that for you. Shouldn't have to pay extra for a feature that should be in the game. But what I really really really want is mouse over healing. It's the best thing for healers second only to an ops frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Shouldn't have to pay extra for a feature that should be in the game. But what I really really really want is mouse over healing. It's the best thing for healers second only to an ops frame. im not familiar with mouse over healing. does that mean that you heal whoever your mouse is over in the ops frame, without having the click on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) im not familiar with mouse over healing. does that mean that you heal whoever your mouse is over in the ops frame, without having the click on them? Yes you will heal whoever your mouse is over, whether its on the ops frame or the actual char. This is super important because it allows me to have an enemy selected while healing my teammates. Why is this important you ask? Because it makes CC/interrupting enemy healers far more easy and efficient this way. When I did WoW arenas, I'd usually have enemy healer selected so I could interrupt their heals, while using mouse over healing to heal my teammates. This was pretty much mandatory to do well. It's also useful if you want to heal a friend, but then want to cleanse yourself because you're rooted or something. You don't have to click your own name, or deselect your target like you have to do now. It's super versatile. And sometimes, it's faster to move your mouse to the guy getting killed right in front of you and heal them instead of looking for their name in ops frame. Also, the act of clicking and then pushing your heal button also takes longer than simply moving your mouse over their name and pushing heal button, and this lag could mean the difference in life and death. Edited February 10, 2013 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownsb Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 so i wrote a simulation model using microsoft excel... [snip] Sorry for being lazy, heading out to dinner. When I get back I'll look at the spreadsheet. One question, does your simulation take into account the added crit chance you receive when sacrificing expertise? It's a significant amount, something like 2% extra ctrit chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Sorry for being lazy, heading out to dinner. When I get back I'll look at the spreadsheet. One question, does your simulation take into account the added crit chance you receive when sacrificing expertise? It's a significant amount, something like 2% extra ctrit chance. 2% What? Um no bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Sorry for being lazy, heading out to dinner. When I get back I'll look at the spreadsheet. One question, does your simulation take into account the added crit chance you receive when sacrificing expertise? It's a significant amount, something like 2% extra ctrit chance. 1214 build: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/b47e385d-8d69-45e1-b054-c356c425069c 1396 build: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/4569cc73-0c64-498e-bdaf-b0cec17c179a 1214 crit: 25.62 ranged, 29.46 tech 1396 crit: 25.23 ranged, 29.08 tech there is no major difference in crit chance, thats another common misconception of swapping out armorings. i did not take into account crit difference b/c the difference in crit chance is so small, and the point was to test base damage difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veyl Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Ah i read through most of the posts an did not see cash's simulation. So I assume there was a flaw in the original experiment then? Yes and the real time testing showed that it wasn't true. Simulations clearly > real time testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 1214 build: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/b47e385d-8d69-45e1-b054-c356c425069c 1396 build: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/4569cc73-0c64-498e-bdaf-b0cec17c179a 1214 crit: 25.62 ranged, 29.46 tech 1396 crit: 25.23 ranged, 29.08 tech there is no major difference in crit chance, thats another common misconception of swapping out armorings. i did not take into account crit difference b/c the difference in crit chance is so small, and the point was to test base damage difference. Yea but it's still good to take crit chance into account. I think the extra main stats give something like .5% crit or some ****. Normally for most MMOs where crit equal twice normal damage, 1% crit = 1% dam. But TOR isn't like that since only a few abilities get over 75% through talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Normally for most MMOs where crit equal twice normal damage, 1% crit = 1% dam. But TOR isn't like that since only a few abilities get over 75% through talents. If you're considering you have 0% crit when increasing your crit rate, it would. Imagine you already have 50% crit chances and crits hit for twice the damage. You'll deal around 150% of normal damage. If you increase your crit chances by 1%, you'll deal now 151% Going from 150% to 151% will only be a 0.67% relative improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 in order to see a notable gain in crit from extra PvE armorings you would need to use more than 2. probably more like 4-5 or more, to see even 1% gain. and at that point you are losing a significant amount of PvP mitigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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