No Reason to Craft

[Atramar]

This one kinda cracks me up though..... so what your telling me is.... you have run 100 slicing missions at 3k per mission and haven't gotten 4 purples??? I find that quite hard to believe...... even with the crap drop rate, and the cost of collecting the other mats included I would still be making a profit selling augs for 300k. Sorry... not buying that one.

 

yesturday I did about 80 slicing missions and got 6 purples.. first two days I had 12, made 4 augments (1 critted), minus efford of other mats and actually getting purple rec... not to mention amount of TIME to keep reloging - if I could send missions from work, that would be a different story (specially when it takes 50 minutes to get FP pop on dps chars, while you cannot relog, doing OPS, work, sleep,eat..)

I didn't say it's not a profit, but not enouth to keep me around, specially since people started selling augments 28 for 200k, mk-9 kits for 180k.. (fair enouth, kits are still good price, specially since you can keep killing mobs and getting some mats free and they are cheap to make).

Then again, I'm not bothered, leave market to those who want and care for it, not buying anyhting any way and I do all my stuff myself between alts. I enjoy game, not economy and big numbers on my virtual account, I have real life for that. Few milions for repairs is enouth.

 

My only problem with crafting is, that besides few trends (1.6, 2.0) where you can actually make some real sums, usualy best way to make money is daily quests. Faster, easier, risk free, constant... (and you can sell mats you gained while doing it)

 

(note, this is not a rant)

Edited April 17, 2013 by Atramar

[Lahandra]

I must respectfully disagree. I am also in the group with many many many millions. They were made pre 2.0. I found not one or two but several niche areas and worked them all. I also sold mats. Since I am not in a guild and do not raid, I had no way (chose not to buy and re items above level 22) to make the million credit sales. I did not craft or earn my credits from super uber endgame gear. Dailies are optional to me since I have no need for credits and at this point probably never will. If I never earn another credit, I have enough to carry me through all of my playing days and still have many many many millions left.

 

The problem that you have identified as not understanding is that crafting of non super uber gear is now worthless and many of the niche markets are gone. Items that can be bought from a comm vendor at Makeb level or below (mods, armorings, barrels, enhancements, and hilts) are now off the table. You cannot sell any of those items any longer. The markets are gone. You cannot sell the mats used to make those items any longer. The markets are gone. Are there areas left where you can make money for non uber items? Yes. But not that many and crafters will migrate to them and kill the profitability by their numbers.

 

I honestly do not have a handle on mats and crafting for items over level 25. I know that I do not get warm and fuzzy from what I am reading about it. More as a frustration avoidance decision than anything else, I have held off on my crafting progression post level 400. That was my choice and I do not regret the lost / early oppertunity. My nature is that since I have more millions than I can ever need, why rush to make more until crafting is fixed and I have an idea of what actually will shake out post 400. If crafting is viable post 400 there will be plenty of credits to be made over the long run. But to point of what people are saying, the pre 25 markets are dead and gone in most areas.

 

The last point that I would make addresses you comments about augments and kits. I don't know about either in the long run. Pre 2.0 my experience was that augments at level 22 did not sell well or for much of a profit when they did. Kits always sell, but the price (mk-6) had dropped to the low 20k level and they were becoming not worth the effort. Yes the mk-6s have jumped back to the 40s, but how long will that hold. Indeed as people progress through Makeb and to the end the top level augments and kits will sell. But I am not sure how long that will hold and how prices will shake out as more and more crafters make them since they have little else make that is viable. I dearly hope that I am wrong, but I feel that Makeb does not have the legs and after a few alts, people will not run through it. So compared to those reaching level 50 on alts, Makeb will fall way short. That will reduce the possible salesof augments and kits as people reach cap.

 

I dearly hope that I am wrong, but I think that there will be a large drop in the player base a few months out that is much like the plummet a few months after launch. EA has done the smoke and mirrors thing and pulled a number of rabbits out of the proverbial hat to save the game (f2p and expansion) but there are no more rabbits and no more hats from this point on. LOL, the changes in crafting may be one of a number of contribution factors. Your comment about finding another mmo may be more real than one would think at this time. Of course, that is just my opinion and I hope that I am very wrong.

 

Not at all trying to pick a fight over this, but respecfully..... This is the kind of talk we saw so much of before 1.5.... then again before F2P..... and again during the wait for the expansion..... The sky is falling.... the player base is dying...... the game won't last another 6 months, yet here we are......

 

Your not exactly nostradamus when it comes to predicting the player base drying up a bit a couple months or so after an expansion.... that's seen in every mmo..... An uptick before the expansion was to be expected.... an influx of old players who left mixed with newbies interested in the content..... Once leveled up they will loose interest until more content is released...... Hence the uptick every time we have a world event as well. Same story with other mmo's, some with smaller and some with larger player bases. Hopefully we keep some new folks with the content as I personally thought Makeb was a pretty good first effort for an expansion.....

 

And again....as to crafting..... As I mentioned before, the drop rate on crafting has already been addressed in the dev tracker, and will probably be corrected to some degree. Augment kits, even at 20k per pre 2.0 were still profitable.... and again, is a cash over time process. Augments, especially the overkill aug, was making me a steady profit as well, and I am sure it will post 2.0.... currently it's making me 500k per. As to lowbie gear..... I have a guildie making millions on a steady basis ( yes... post expansion as well) with lvl 20-40 purples, as well as mats and such..... It's not a get rich quick program, just steady credits over time. The entire player base does not consist of 50-55 players, and never has..... I can search at any given time of the day on our server and find a slew of lowbies. Weather they be alts or newbies, they are still purchasing the items, and I seriously doubt that's changing anytime soon.

 

And sorry, got to call ya out on this one.....The "EA smoke and mirrors/Rabbit out of a hat" thing just doesn't make any sense in the slightest.....Almost EVERY other mmo has implemented an in game cash system or a FTP type model of some sort, and almost every other mmo has expansions as a way of keeping and growing it's player base.....well... the ones that are lasting at least So that doesn't quite wash..... Again.... JMHO.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Lahandra

[asbalana]

Not at all trying to pick a fight over this, but respecfully..... This is the kind of talk we saw so much of before 1.5.... then again before F2P..... and again during the wait for the expansion..... The sky is falling.... the player base is dying...... the game won't last another 6 months, yet here we are......

 

Your not exactly nostradamus when it comes to predicting the player base drying up a bit a couple months or so after an expansion.... that's seen in every mmo..... An uptick before the expansion was to be expected.... an influx of old players who left mixed with newbies interested in the content..... Once leveled up they will loose interest until more content is released...... Hence the uptick every time we have a world event as well. Same story with other mmo's, some with smaller and some with larger player bases. Hopefully we keep some new folks with the content as I personally thought Makeb was a pretty good first effort for an expansion.....

 

And again....as to crafting..... As I mentioned before, the drop rate on crafting has already been addressed in the dev tracker, and will probably be corrected to some degree. Augment kits, even at 20k per pre 2.0 were still profitable.... and again, is a cash over time process. Augments, especially the overkill aug, was making me a steady profit as well, and I am sure it will post 2.0.... currently it's making me 500k per. As to lowbie gear..... I have a guildie making millions on a steady basis ( yes... post expansion as well) with lvl 20-40 purples, as well as mats and such..... It's not a get rich quick program, just steady credits over time. The entire player base does not consist of 50-55 players, and never has..... I can search at any given time of the day on our server and find a slew of lowbies. Weather they be alts or newbies, they are still purchasing the items, and I seriously doubt that's changing anytime soon.

 

And sorry, got to call ya out on this one.....The "EA smoke and mirrors/Rabbit out of a hat" thing just doesn't make any sense in the slightest.....Almost EVERY other mmo has implemented an in game cash system or a FTP type model of some sort, and almost every other mmo has expansions as a way of keeping and growing it's player base.....well... the ones that are lasting at least So that doesn't quite wash..... Again.... JMHO.

 

No fight, but indeed a disagreement and I hope that you are correct and I am dead wrong. My wife is a SW freak and has always been. She had never played a computer game no less an MMO before SWTOR. I love our play time together and would hope the game survivees for a good while. Even as a newbee, she sees the issues that have causes so many peoplt to leave, but loves her double light sabers and companion and so keeps playing. I will always be grateful to SWTOR for bringing her into gaming which is now in her blood.

 

I don't think that it is worth debating since we each have our viewpoint and time will tell without respect ot what either of us now thinks. I will respond to your "call out". Even EA has stated in it's corporate way that f2p saved the game. As a player who started in beta and has been here since and who has both experienced the game (in the context of others that I have played) and who has read a great deal about it (players comments and press), I strongly feel that f2p was indeed smoke and mirrors. The game was tanking for a lot of reasons before f2p was introduced. There are significant design and operational issues. F2p introduced a new business model and the CM a new stream of revenue. It did not address or correct one flaw that caused the drop in subs or gamers reactions. Yes, games drop subs after launch, but bad games drop them faster and to a greater degree that good ones. Flawed games find a lower bottom than good ones.

 

An expansion will always bring in players who have left. They want to see the new content. But this patch, which was then re titled to an expansion, was touted by EA and heavily advertised and promoted. Advertisement and promotion is, again, smoke and mirrors to me. They add nothing to the content itself. I quite like Makeb and have an Imp SI at lever 54 1/2. I look forward to playing a pub character through as well and that is it. As I said, Makeb does not have legs - not a lot of replay value. When I compare the amount of content in Makeb to other expansions (say Cata) if falls way short. The pricing does not matter, the point is that the smoke and mirror hype of an expansion brought people in, but Makeb Is, at best, a mini expansion. It kind of reminds me of the old classic commercial which asked "Where's the beef?"

 

As far as rabbit out of a hat is concerned f2p was one and the expansion another. If the number of players start to plummet again, what next? Like a two trick pony, there is no encore. The hat is empty.

 

I see what I see and you see what you see. Neither of us is right or wrong at this point. We are only giving our well considered viewpoints. I will finish as I started. Time will tell and I hope that I am missing something or am wrong in my predictions.

Edited April 18, 2013 by asbalana

[Lahandra]

No fight, but indeed a disagreement and I hope that you are correct and I am dead wrong. My wife is a SW freak and has always been. She had never played a computer game no less an MMO before SWTOR. I love our play time together and would hope the game survivees for a good while. Even as a newbee, she sees the issues that have causes so many peoplt to leave, but loves her double light sabers and companion and so keeps playing. I will always be grateful to SWTOR for bringing her into gaming which is now in her blood.

 

I don't think that it is worth debating since we each have our viewpoint and time will tell without respect ot what either of us now thinks. I will respond to your "call out". Even EA has stated in it's corporate way that f2p saved the game. As a player who started in beta and has been here since and who has both experienced the game (in the context of others that I have played) and who has read a great deal about it (players comments and press), I strongly feel that f2p was indeed smoke and mirrors. The game was tanking for a lot of reasons before f2p was introduced. There are significant design and operational issues. F2p introduced a new business model and the CM a new stream of revenue. It did not address or correct one flaw that caused the drop in subs or gamers reactions. Yes, games drop subs after launch, but bad games drop them faster and to a greater degree that good ones. Flawed games find a lower bottom than good ones.

 

An expansion will always bring in players who have left. They want to see the new content. But this patch, which was then re titled to an expansion, was touted by EA and heavily advertised and promoted. Advertisement and promotion is, again, smoke and mirrors to me. They add nothing to the content itself. I quite like Makeb and have an Imp SI at lever 54 1/2. I look forward to playing a pub character through as well and that is it. As I said, Makeb does not have legs - not a lot of replay value. When I compare the amount of content in Makeb to other expansions (say Cata) if falls way short. The pricing does not matter, the point is that the smoke and mirror hype of an expansion brought people in, but Makeb Is, at best, a mini expansion. It kind of reminds me of the old classic commercial which asked "Where's the beef?"

 

As far as rabbit out of a hat is concerned f2p was one and the expansion another. If the number of players start to plummet again, what next? Like a two trick pony, there is no encore. The hat is empty.

 

I see what I see and you see what you see. Neither of us is right or wrong at this point. We are only giving our well considered viewpoints. I will finish as I started. Time will tell and I hope that I am missing something or am wrong in my predictions.

 

The only mistake I think your making is in a comparison to something like WOW, or in this case Cata. This mmo is never going to have the numbers WOW had or even currently still has..... No mmo does. That was simply a case of right place, right time. But since you made the comparison, and brought up bugs as well, WOW did and still does go through large bouts of buggy behavior and glitches. In the vanilla days, there were moths where the game was unplayable.....While I would love to see some of the bugs in SWTOR fixed, your dealing with a smaller revenue stream, a smaller group of employees, and a more advanced game. Of course it's going to take longer to get said bugs fixed. Also, don't forget, even the mighty WOW has pandered at least partially to the F2P model as well. In fact, I would say the entire mmo market as a whole is more fragmented now than ever..... Considering the diversity of the mmo's available at this point, the player base for all of them are growing smaller by the year. The question we have to ask is if what revenue stream there is will be enough to sustain the game for future content, and how fast said content will be released. At $15 for a content expansion, only twice your monthly rate, Makeb was more than worth the price for said content. To expect that for free as a simple patch would have been ridiculous for a game of this nature.... The content for a game like this is simply more expensive to produce than a game like WOW. If you want to continue to have voice acting and rich story content to the extent that this game employs, it simply costs more. To continue to think that you would get an expansion in the size of content that would rival say a Cata or WOTLK would just be asking too much from a game with a smaller revenue stream, or a $15 fee for that matter. As to the highly advertised point.... did I not see my TV plastered with adds for pandas just not too long ago?? Just making the point that advertisement is a non issue here and standard from any game company releasing new content.... I just think that we are dealing with a different animal all together with SWTOR, and at the moment.... we are all still here with no reports of any immanent shutdown But agreed, only time will tell. Glad to hear the game brought your wife to the mmo world, and hope it's around for quite some time for all of us to enjoy. Cheers.