5 shadow vs. 5 smash

[Cowflab]

If they have two stealth they will cap on any lone defender.

 

I'd rather face 5 smashers than 5 sins. What you can see is much less scary than what you can't.

 

This is a pretty weak argument. A lone defender will almost always give up a cap if their team doesn't respond fast enough. The basis of nerfing a class because 2 players can effectively coordinate and use in game mechanics to achieve a goal is almost as ridiculous as people saying premades serve as a detriment to the PvP community unless they face other premades. Assassins/shadows have already been nerfed numerous times. Whiners complaining about them now just need to learn how to deal with them. Here's how.

 

Stop a stealth cap:

 

If you have an AoE taunt and you suspect there is an assassin nearby. Use it! It will put them in combat and they can no longer mind trap you.

 

If you haven't already done so, stop raging at your computer while sitting in a mind trap, IMMEDIATELY call out for help.

 

If they mind trap you and are capping break CC. 9/10 they will immediately force cloak again, in which case you use your AoE damage ability or knockback to pull them out.

 

In the unlikely event that they use shroud with cloak to avoid your AoE they're dead meat anyway if you have even a slight inclination of how to fight them because they've now used their get out of jail free cards. They have now completely filled your resolve and given you ample time to stall and for your teammates to arrive.

 

As others have said, L2P. I've had more than my fair share of ninja caps halted by players who know what they're doing.

[Kegparty]

I'm willing to bet that 99% of the people making the claim "Rage is no skill involved" have never actually played a warrior, let alone a level 50 Rage spec.

 

Do I find it difficult to play? Absolutely not. But then again, I have yet to find a class in this game that is "hard" to play correctly. In short, if you want to complain about skill required, go play Starcraft 2. This game does not require much.

 

I find rage easy to play on my 50 alt. It's really gear dependent so a fresh 50 will get pissed but after half WH it starts shinning.

 

I want Maras to have a stealth class That would change the play up a bit.

[rainbow]

I don't really get the whole "your spec is easy to play so you = bad" argument that everyone seems to be throwing around.

 

Where did I write that?

 

Personally, I find Carnage and Annihilation just as easy, if not easier than Rage, primarily because with Rage you are juggling Fury + Rage (2 resources, compared to most classes using 2), and getting into position for an optimal smash, which when there are 8 moving targets spread out across a 100 x 100 yard map (or larger), and the fact that your damage output is going to be crap for the next 8-12 seconds after smashing.. you have to make it count. Then there's also prioritizing targets (healers and high threat dps) as well.

 

8 moving targets that usually aren't that spread out at all and usually try to go to a certain point on that map. Forgive me, but that map grows very small very very fast.

 

I've played an assassin in PvP, and a Pyrotech. Both seemed easier to me, and that includes doing things like sap / zap capping nodes in front of players, correctly using pulls/stuns to kill ball carriers in huttball, proper knockbacks, ball carrying, etc. The easiest class by far that I have played has been Pyro Powertech. There is a priority system but it's quite easy.

 

Who cares about tactical play. Smash monkeys don't excell at tactical finesse anyways in 90% of the cases, they just zerg everything down, and they can do so, because that massive aoe damage is just too much if you stack it with more than one player.

 

As for saying "you don't even need to use abilities in the right order", that just isn't true at all. To play Rage properly there is a somewhat complex priority system on abilities. Knowing when to use Force Crush or Choke, Rupture, always having a 4 stack + autocrit buff up when smash is ready, never starving yourself for Rage, etc, and of course the most important part of this spec - positioning yourself through 10 million stuns/slows/knockbacks/roots. I was knocked back / slowed / rooted 7 times in a row last night without getting full resolve lol.

 

You have 3 rather easy ways to gather that 4 stacks. One doesn't even require to do anything else besides pressing a button and it even grants you almost full rage too... and now don't tell me, that it's never up. It's almost always up for me. Also the critical buff stays a loooong time after jumping to a target. Way longer than any other critical increasing buff that triggers off another skill.

And what's there to position? Got stacks up? Okay, select target, Jump, Smash. Works always with almost no chance to avoid that.

 

I'm willing to bet that 99% of the people making the claim "Rage is no skill involved" have never actually played a warrior, let alone a level 50 Rage spec.

 

In that case I'll just point to my Signature...

Edited January 29, 2013 by rainbow

[revcrisis]

assassin/shadow are the strongest class overall, period. I've been saying htat for months, our guild has known that for months. Problem is, there are only about 2 or 3 assassins on our server that play them correctly.

This is simply not true. Assassins cannot put up the raw DPS numbers of a well played Jugg, Mara, Pyrotech, or even Sniper. There's a reason the top ranked teams aren't running around with 3 or 4 assassins. While assassins do have tons of utility, the rest of the classes do as well. A hybrid smash/tank Jugg, Maras for predation & high DPS smash, a Pyrotech has the best 3 second burst in the game, and a sniper has strong AOEs to stop caps and great single target dmg to finish off healers or DPS.

Edited January 29, 2013 by revcrisis

[Aluvi]

This is simply not true. Assassins cannot put up the raw DPS numbers of a well played Jugg, Mara, Pyrotech, or even Sniper. There's a reason the top ranked teams aren't running around with 3 or 4 assassins. While assassins do have tons of utility, the rest of the classes do as well. A hybrid smash/tank Jugg, Maras for predation & high DPS smash, a Pyrotech has the best 3 second burst in the game, and a sniper has strong AOEs to stop caps and great single target dmg to finish off healers or DPS.

 

I didnt say they did hte most dps, I said they are the strongest overall. In terms of dueling, assassins > all. This is due to a combination of damage mitigation, stealth, stuns, and damage / burst output. An assassin wont ever put out the dps of a good mara. But then again, they shouldn't, since they have so much more utility.

[Aluvi]

Where did I write that?

 

"That way even a retarded player can be a little usefull". I took that as your class = no skill.

 

 

8 moving targets that usually aren't that spread out at all and usually try to go to a certain point on that map. Forgive me, but that map grows very small very very fast.

 

Obviously you have never played in competitive PvP where people actively work to NOT clump up. It's rare to get a smash with more than 3 people in it.

 

 

Who cares about tactical play. Smash monkeys don't excell at tactical finesse anyways in 90% of the cases, they just zerg everything down, and they can do so, because that massive aoe damage is just too much if you stack it with more than one player.

 

 

 

You have 3 rather easy ways to gather that 4 stacks. One doesn't even require to do anything else besides pressing a button and it even grants you almost full rage too... and now don't tell me, that it's never up. It's almost always up for me. Also the critical buff stays a loooong time after jumping to a target. Way longer than any other critical increasing buff that triggers off another skill.

And what's there to position? Got stacks up? Okay, select target, Jump, Smash. Works always with almost no chance to avoid that.

 

You're forgetting about the fact that a warrior spends easily 40-60% of their in combat time stunned. try lining up a good smash when you have a 70% slow on you 100% of the time, and the rest of the time you are stunned. Bubble stun and slows hinder warriors more than any other class. Even if we don't break a bubble, even if we are trying to break it with dots while we get out of range of the stun, someone else will. What ends up happening is that warriors take bubble stuns not just for themselves, but for every ranged player on their team as well.

 

I'm not saying our class is by any means difficult. What i am saying is, people need to stop acting like "their class" is so much harder to play. It's not. As I've said, if you want an extremely high skill based game, this isn't it, so stop harping on warriors for playing the best spec our class has to offer.

 

One last thing. I'll tell you a little secret: Smash isn't getting nerfed. Why? Because it's doing the type of damage that Bioware wants it to. It performs about on par with Pyrotech Powertechs. Literally, the best PT on the server and I can do ranked warzones and get numbers that are within 5-10% of eachother, every game. Keep in mind, MY damage is aoe. His is much more single target. Which class seems overpowered now?

 

Oh, and just wait until bubble stun gets nerfed. I'm going back to carnage full time then. Everyone seems to have forgotten about being killed in 3 seconds with a charge gore ravage scream =)

[revcrisis]

I would think an operative > assassin in terms of dueling 1v1. They can flashbang and heal. Exit combat, sleep dart, and heal. Sever tendon to immobilize, get off a quick heal.

[ArchangelLBC]

I don't really get the whole "your spec is easy to play so you = bad" argument that everyone seems to be throwing around. Personally, I find Carnage and Annihilation just as easy, if not easier than Rage, primarily because with Rage you are juggling Fury + Rage (2 resources, compared to most classes using 2), and getting into position for an optimal smash, which when there are 8 moving targets spread out across a 100 x 100 yard map (or larger), and the fact that your damage output is going to be crap for the next 8-12 seconds after smashing.. you have to make it count. Then there's also prioritizing targets (healers and high threat dps) as well.

 

I've played an assassin in PvP, and a Pyrotech. Both seemed easier to me, and that includes doing things like sap / zap capping nodes in front of players, correctly using pulls/stuns to kill ball carriers in huttball, proper knockbacks, ball carrying, etc. The easiest class by far that I have played has been Pyro Powertech. There is a priority system but it's quite easy.

 

As for saying "you don't even need to use abilities in the right order", that just isn't true at all. To play Rage properly there is a somewhat complex priority system on abilities. Knowing when to use Force Crush or Choke, Rupture, always having a 4 stack + autocrit buff up when smash is ready, never starving yourself for Rage, etc, and of course the most important part of this spec - positioning yourself through 10 million stuns/slows/knockbacks/roots. I was knocked back / slowed / rooted 7 times in a row last night without getting full resolve lol.

 

I'm willing to bet that 99% of the people making the claim "Rage is no skill involved" have never actually played a warrior, let alone a level 50 Rage spec.

 

Do I find it difficult to play? Absolutely not. But then again, I have yet to find a class in this game that is "hard" to play correctly. In short, if you want to complain about skill required, go play Starcraft 2. This game does not require much.

 

I don't agree that "easy to play spec = you bad" either to be honest. On the other hand there is easy to play and there's easy to play. Even a very mediocre sentinel can pump out some serious damage. I should know. I have a 50 sentinel I switched to focus and I am INCREDIBLY mediocre. Is that playing the spec properly? No not really. Will someone who IS playing the spec properly do much better? Absolutely. But you can still put up numbers which rival most other DPS on the field.

 

On the other hand you said yourself that there are very few people who play shadow/assassin properly (I am almost certainly not one of them. Care to enlighten me on properly? Serious question). A sucky shadow is just an empty spot on the team because, as you say, a lot of the strength comes from the things that aren't damage, but if aren't utilitizing it properly you're not just gonna be not as good as a properly played assassin. You're going to be not as good as a commando. Therein lies the difference, and despite you saying you haven't found anything difficult to play, your own admission that you don't know more than 3 assassins playing the class properly suggests that this isn't true for the majority of players.

 

Oh, and just wait until bubble stun gets nerfed. I'm going back to carnage full time then. Everyone seems to have forgotten about being killed in 3 seconds with a charge gore ravage scream =)

 

HA! Yes. The second bubbles get nerfed I'm switching back to combat for exactly that reason.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[LastWizard]

Operative vs Assassin. In a straight up fight the assassin will win. Other cases are dependable upon skill level.

 

 

Smash/Focus is the easiest spec to play in game. I have a friend with 1 arm who plays the class very well but struggles with the other classes that require more work to maintain.