Why I Believe Less-Human Species Should be PC's

[JerevFalar]

Bioware, I have read your stance, and I understand why you don't want exotic races as PC's. But I have to disagree, and I hope some other Starwars fans, BW employees included, understand why.

 

I almost posted this in another thread, but I thought the debate of whether or not to allows less-humanoid races deserved its own thread. You can find that previous thread here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5724884#post5724884

 

From what I read it was a matter of the lack of immersion. I read that Bioware believes that if we can't relate to our character then its a bad design, and that the exotic alien species have always been sidekicks rather than the main protagonist. The response I read went on to say that the species we want have totally different cultures, and that also aids in breaking the human element.

 

I suppose I understand where they are coming from but this is Starwars first of all, a Starwars video game no less. People don't come here to relate to their character, they come here to be weird aliens, and to do things they could not do in reality. If this was Mass Effect, and I was fighting for humanity, then yes, it would make sense, but this isn't Mass Effect.

 

The races they implemented already stray from the human element. I don't feel any relation to my Miralukan. He can't even perceive the world like I can, because he has no eyes. He uses the Force, which isn't even real. His culture is totally different from the culture here in the middle of the Western Hemisphere, being a sort of force-mystic ethnicity. Also, Twi'leks have lekku, and are known as slaves around the galaxy. Mirilians have green skin, and are generally sage-like akin to the Miralukans in nature. Zabrak's have horns, and are battle-hardened warriors in their history. My culture is nothing close to any of the possible character's except for maybe the basic human.

 

Furthermore their culture? Really? Humans have an immense amount of different cultures for heaven's sake. That's how we even CREATE the" fake fictional" ones, by basing them off our own.

 

I'd say that most of the players, at least RP players like me, are into the lore and want to be part of that culture. Even so, we are thrown into different cultures by being a certain class. Bounty Hunters and Smugglers don't have a collective culture unless you want to RP one, Jedi have a culture no matter what their race, same goes for Sith, and Troopers and Agents are soldiers for their respective governments.

 

And how about players that aren't RP players? They could care less. I bet that a lot fo them pick whichever class looks the coolest. My friend personally picked a Zabrak and named it 24 because he thought it was cool. And if they really want to be a human, go for it! They can still do that!

 

And now, of course, we have Cathar on the way. The first class to not have one of the standard faces. Bioware is already straying from the norm with kitty-cats as a PC, so why not include more races that speak basic? (Sorry Wookie people)

 

Now I will concede I am no expert in game design. There may be a ton of technical problems involved with doing this, and even budgeting if they have to make more diverse models for customization. But if that isn't the case, I just don't understand.

 

If anyone knows me they know I want Kel Dors, and I'll admit I'm biased. I freakin' love Plo Koon, and the Kel Dor system of brutal justice. I'm sure there are tons of fans who know a lot about their favorite race and want to be them in-game as well. Now I get that you won't have certain head slots, foot slots, or glove/ wrist slots for most characters visible because of their diverse appendages and what have you, but I personally could care less, and I think a lot of fans agree.

 

Okay I'm done now. Feel free to discuss, and thank you for contributing ahead of time. Especially you Bioware, I would love to hear from you if any of the mods or devs read my rant.

 

EDIT: I added a period.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I have decided that it was a bit unfair to judge the amount of playable species simply based off of Bioware's opinion about how to craft in-game experience. That is only half, if not less of the work that goes into the game. The technical aspect is a whole other monster, that, even after I've discussed it with a few people knowledgeable in the field, is in-comprehensible to me without more experience.

 

For instance, I mentioned that there were in-game models, like Kel'Dor, Rodians, and Togruta already developed. While that may be true, there are a ton of customization options they have to develop to create a "fully-customizable" PC. Though I will say with the customization options in game, well, I don't think I should call it "full-customizable" PC's. That is another discussion entirely.

 

Part of the design that also needs to be addressed is clipping. Now when it comes to clipping, it's easy for me to say its not that big of a deal. I'm not a Twi'lek, most of my clipping experience revolves around my Miraluka's cyclops mask clipping out of his hood once in a while before they patches it. But, I really don't think most people who want to run species like Kel'dor, Togruta, or Rodian have a problem with not wearing helmets and allowing hoods to mask their appendages (I do realize Togruta are quite different as there horns and head tentacles are the reason why people like them, and that involves even more work to work around.) No one needs to see my giant ear-organ things to tell that I'm Kel'Dor, nor do Rodians tiny antenna, and head fringe....thing always have to show. I would go further to say we generally don't care if we can't have boots or gloves visible either.

 

Now something we mostly do, or at least I mostly do, care about, is the voice-acting. Voice-acting in any Bioware game is paramount. Whether or not people like Nolan North's voice-acting, I'd rather hear that than some alien-jibberish. If they do implement new species, it HAS to be basic-inclined. As cool as wookie's are, I don't want "rrrrrrrgh", "aaaaargh", and "roar!" to be the extent of my vocabulary. I like to appreciate the EXTREMELY costly part of the game.

 

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like it when NPC's speak in gibberish. I even sometimes chuckle when hearing "salemee wanki" when the NPC is mentioning their children's death. But back to my main topic.

 

There are probably more technical aspects that I'm missing, but, in light of the fact that I am not versed in that field, I shouldn't be talking about them in my main post.

 

One last thing I have to talk about is the Cathar, and what they mean for the game IMO. They will basically determine the future of new PC species. I suppose they are pretty easy to implement versus other classes, but I'm not sure how how popular they are amongst the community, and if enough people don't like them, Bioware will never make a new PC species. My hope is that a lot of people make some "kitty-cat" alts, and that they will run fluidly through cinematic like the PC's should. My biggest fear is that they aren't that popular.

 

P.S. Thank you for enlightening me, in a civil fashion, of certain technical issues people who did so.

Edited February 1, 2013 by JerevFalar

[Izorii]

Just want to say I agree with this post. I am still hopefull that we will see more alien species especial Kel-dor who dont have any giant horns or tenticles or anything else which instantly makes me think of clipping issues. The voice modification for helmets is already in and they really arn't that much uglier than a body type 1 scared cyborg. They are also 3rd most popular species on the ultimate poll of desired alien species.

[Angryshooter]

+1 to you, OP.

 

I too would love more aliens to be playable and not only seen >_> but sadly, thats Bioware for you ;-;

[demotivator]

I don't want to play a Trando, Jawa, Rodian, etc. that speaks... subtitles.

 

That's all I have to say about this matter and why I understand their stance.

Edited January 27, 2013 by demotivator

[Shaz]

I don't want to play a Trando, Jawa, Rodian, etc. that speaks... subtitles.

 

That's all I have to say about this matter and why I understand their stance.

 

I understand and support their 'must be able to speak Basic' stance (only because this game is fully voiced, were it not, that would be different). However, there are PLENTY of near-human/humanoid/non-human races that speak Basic just fine according to this game, so why not have them? I'd love to see more variation. Really love it.

 

So, +1 to OP.

[Screamenko]

Of course, in a universe so diverse as the Star Wars universe, you would expect to have more choices and options for your character creation. I agree with the OP, though besides what he stated, there is another matter that was mentioned by the poster above. There are species that cannot not speak Basic due to their anatomical structure of organs of speech.

 

Such species include (but not limited to) Wookiees, Jawas, and less known reptilian species like the Ssi-ruuk, P'w'ecks, and some others. Rodians, Trandoshans, Gamorreans and many other alien species actually CAN speak Basic, as demonstrated in several Expanded Universe sources.

*A side note: There is an example of a Wookiee speaking Basic (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ralrracheen)

 

But even if some people really want to play a species that cannot speak Basic, there is a solution for them. There may be two options for conversations: Either make their player character speak their native languages (for those who like growls and other odd sounds) or make their characters speak with "translated" speech, so we could understand what they are saying, and leaving the strange sounds in the background so they can still be heard. That way, it would look like a voice-over in a film.

 

Another matter is the difference of physical size between humans (near-humans) and alien species. The Drall, for example, are a diminutive species of rodent-like aliens who can speak Basic, but implementing them as a playable species would be difficult due to the necessity to change camera positions in all the conversations.

 

Changing camera positions to accommodate differently-looking species, to my mind, is the hardest obstacle the developers may face if they ever decide to create non-near-human species. And I think, there may be no hope for us at all. But having Cathar or other recolored guys that may come in the future is still a way of expanding this game, making it more like the greatest Star Wars game and adventure we could ever have.

[xShingo]

Can you imagine any of these extra races being called titles such as the emperor's wrath? Lololololol

[AlexDougherty]

In the game there are several less-humanoid species that can speak basic, there are two Selkath for example who speak it perfectly, one a Jedi and one a member of the Rift Alliance. both Twilek and Zabrak have members who don't speak basic, so non-basic speaking species could easily have basic speaking exceptions.

 

Personally I want to play Selkath, Wookie, and Trandoshian, please.

[Izorii]

Can you imagine any of these extra races being called titles such as the emperor's wrath? Lololololol

 

I can't imagine a Twi'lek or a Chiss to be the Emperors wrath or a member of the dark council but both can and even worse a Cathar soon will be. However the big argument is there is a single Wraith and 12 dark council this means that your personal story is personal and not the same shared by all other players if I want an alien character why not let me play one even if it is opened through legacy.

[xShingo]

Twi'lek are empire slaves, and most chiss are Allied with the empire, what you mean?

[Izorii]

Twi'lek are empire slaves, and most chiss are Allied with the empire, what you mean?

 

Until the events of Anihalation all the Dark Counil members are human and Sith Pure Blood, so letting a non human on the council is unheard of weather its a Trandoshan, a Kel''dor or the species already playable. As for the Wraith well in a xenophobic empire (which the emporoer is given Malgus stance on aliens and his reasons why the empire is dying) why would he ever elect a non human / pure blood Wraith. Lore is not the reason that more alien species have not been included it comes down simply to money. Hopefull then if enough people want alien species they will be included.

[Cernow]

It's Jawa or nothing. I don't even care if no-one understands a word he says and none of the gear he wears actually changes his appearance. Just make Jawa able to be PC's and I'll sub for life

[Hyfy]

Of course, in a universe so diverse as the Star Wars universe, you would expect to have more choices and options for your character creation. I agree with the OP, though besides what he stated, there is another matter that was mentioned by the poster above. There are species that cannot not speak Basic due to their anatomical structure of organs of speech.

 

Such species include (but not limited to) Wookiees, Jawas, and less known reptilian species like the Ssi-ruuk, P'w'ecks, and some others. Rodians, Trandoshans, Gamorreans and many other alien species actually CAN speak Basic, as demonstrated in several Expanded Universe sources.

*A side note: There is an example of a Wookiee speaking Basic (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ralrracheen)

 

But even if some people really want to play a species that cannot speak Basic, there is a solution for them. There may be two options for conversations: Either make their player character speak their native languages (for those who like growls and other odd sounds) or make their characters speak with "translated" speech, so we could understand what they are saying, and leaving the strange sounds in the background so they can still be heard. That way, it would look like a voice-over in a film.

 

Another matter is the difference of physical size between humans (near-humans) and alien species. The Drall, for example, are a diminutive species of rodent-like aliens who can speak Basic, but implementing them as a playable species would be difficult due to the necessity to change camera positions in all the conversations.

 

Changing camera positions to accommodate differently-looking species, to my mind, is the hardest obstacle the developers may face if they ever decide to create non-near-human species. And I think, there may be no hope for us at all. But having Cathar or other recolored guys that may come in the future is still a way of expanding this game, making it more like the greatest Star Wars game and adventure we could ever have.

 

 

Or just have them carry a step stool with them wherever they go.

[rhaynnsilvermoon]

First off i agree with the thread, this is Star Wars who cares of just playing humans there r 100s if not 1000s of species in this game and having just a few to use a player characters would b awesome unlike the failed cyborg ***. That is the lamest iv seen in any game. Thats what the frakking implants r for to cyber the characters out not to frakking start as a facial cyborg cuz thats all u c there r no cyber limbs etc etc.

Tugruta all the frakking way for a pc that species ROCKS!!!!!

Just my opinion.

[odonoghuet]

Can anyone for this idea explain more about what they would enjoy most about playing a wookie or trandoshan in these stories?

 

I honestly wish to understand what the *personal* value of what is a 'vanity skin' like is being asked for compared to the work load to fix camera angles, endless clipping issues, changes/replacing of an entire class voice acting, and a dozen other issues the developers have pointed out as a problem.

[LogicalPremise]

Bioware, I have read your stance, and I understand why you don't want exotic races as PC's. But I have to disagree, and I hope some other Starwars fans, BW employees included, understand why.

 

What I took away from the discussion is that there were issues with the models themselves (clipping, etc) that was the only thing that couldn't be solved with a work around.

[MelodicSixNine]

Or you know... BW could just add a little droid to a wookie PC which translates everything in real time. Player will occasionally hear a 'roar' in background. That way old voice overs can be used with added droid effect(or not?).

 

Cheap? Yea. So what? It's not like it's the first time game will be cheap. Wookies in Star Wars MMO are like a 'must have' iconic race.

[CelCawdro]

Or you know... BW could just add a little droid to a wookie PC which translates everything in real time. Player will occasionally hear a 'roar' in background. That way old voice overs can be used with added droid effect(or not?).

 

Cheap? Yea. So what? It's not like it's the first time game will be cheap. Wookies in Star Wars MMO are like a 'must have' iconic race.

 

And they're all over the game. In the most notable case, as the Smuggler's companion, no less - you can't get a much more iconic implementation than that.

[Draegaar]

Tugruta all the frakking way for a pc that species ROCKS!!!!!

 

Whatever Yoda's race is called...

 

A real, modifiable Cyborg class, without the idiotic face "implant things". wth are those things supposed to be?! Haven't the Devs seen Robocop, or looked at a book from Cyberpunk, or Watched Star Wars??? Cyborgs barely look Human, if at all!!! Make them like Droid parts. Note to the Devs: Look up Rifts: Cybernetic Compendium from the Palladium line of books if you need inspiration. Or hire me, I'll make it happen.

 

Sand People? How hard could that be?

 

Customizable figures during Character creation. I should be able to give my super hot Chiss Assassin a longer neck, and be able to make facial adjustments, and body/trunk/limb tweaks as well.

 

Let's make this happen, Bioware!!! I know you have the money. I've been spending big $ on cartel coins plus my sub. I am your customer, and I am ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

[Izorii]

Can anyone for this idea explain more about what they would enjoy most about playing a wookie or trandoshan in these stories?

 

I honestly wish to understand what the *personal* value of what is a 'vanity skin' like is being asked for compared to the work load to fix camera angles, endless clipping issues, changes/replacing of an entire class voice acting, and a dozen other issues the developers have pointed out as a problem.

 

For me the BW class story is not the reason I want to play a Kel'dor or a Gran or a Trandoshan its for the lv 50 RP and my own characters story. Yes I will never get the voice over I want exactly then again I dont get that with my cyborg trooper either because we get 3 choices and if we are going dark or light even less but I could still pick the ones which I believe suit the character I have created in my head. I simply want to create my own character (wouldn't even call him a hero) and expolor the Old Republic world RPIng my Kel'dor Sith Inquistor intergator who sees everything in black and white or my cowardly Gran Smuggler whoes just in it for the credits and the Gran Grass or my Trandoshan bounty hunter slaver who doesn't care who he shoots or what jobs he takes as long as he gets paid.

 

Personaly I would pay a lot for a alien species skin of a species I wanted to play easily 50 to 100 bucks. And thats just for the skin. I still see this cheaper than buying Cathar and then hoping the next species is one I want and if its not buying that one just in the hope the third or fourth is.

[JerevFalar]

Another matter is the difference of physical size between humans (near-humans) and alien species. The Drall, for example, are a diminutive species of rodent-like aliens who can speak Basic, but implementing them as a playable species would be difficult due to the necessity to change camera positions in all the conversations.

 

That didn't stop them from having a Gand companions did it? If I remember, they are quite small, yet Bioware used one of the body types to make a Gand companion, and he/she is much taller than an average Gand.

[JerevFalar]

Can anyone for this idea explain more about what they would enjoy most about playing a wookie or trandoshan in these stories?

 

I honestly wish to understand what the *personal* value of what is a 'vanity skin' like is being asked for compared to the work load to fix camera angles, endless clipping issues, changes/replacing of an entire class voice acting, and a dozen other issues the developers have pointed out as a problem.

 

I myself don't understand the desire to be a Wookie or Trando, and have an easier time understanding why they aren't implemented as PC's, but they are probably just some people's favorite races that they want in-game desperately.

 

Like I said, my buddy created a vrey generic Darth Maul clone for his BH and then named him with a two-digit number. I would guess most of them would be less RP-oriented, but you never know.

 

Of course I agree with you however, and I don't think they realize the amount of work being taller than the tallest current body type requires.

[bahdasz]

They do not need to make races that cannot wear the existing armor, or all the peices of it. Ithorians and wookiees in SWG are the prime example of poooooor planning:

Add playable species... oh yeah, they can't wear any armor, but whatever.

Ok,ok, please stop your whining, you spoiled players; it's only been a couple months... here's some crap looking armor that only you can wear, but there's one set in each category, now shut up.

Ok, ok, it's been like 2 years... stop your whining, here's like 2 more sets, now shut up

Ok, ok, it's been like 5 years, here's an appearance tab... you can wear whatever you want but you can't see it, you still have to wear the butt-ugly armor from 5 years ago or some ridiculous looking jedi robes if you don't want to look naked.

 

Seriously, do not make everyone here go through that, again. Stick with humanoid characters.

Edited January 27, 2013 by bahdasz

[sharpenedstick]

Remember, SWTOR's development was guided by the principle that Bioware knows what we want better than we do ourselves. Everything has been meticulously crafted to present the play experience Bioware wants us to have. That's why this is the most linear major MMO in history.

 

Level designs are brutally straight-forward. Quests are all collected at hubs. There are no day/night cycles. Space is a rail shooter. All conversation options branch to the same place. Races are irrelevant.

 

Bioware believes very strongly in delivering what they call a "cinematic" gaming experience. But the only way to achieve that is to maintain an iron-grip on creative control. That's why you won't see any sandbox elements, and that's why you won't find development choices outside the narrow confines that Bioware believes are appropriate.

[Izorii]

Remember, SWTOR's development was guided by the principle that Bioware knows what we want better than we do ourselves. Everything has been meticulously crafted to present the play experience Bioware wants us to have. That's why this is the most linear major MMO in history.

 

Level designs are brutally straight-forward. Quests are all collected at hubs. There are no day/night cycles. Space is a rail shooter. All conversation options branch to the same place. Races are irrelevant.

 

Bioware believes very strongly in delivering what they call a "cinematic" gaming experience. But the only way to achieve that is to maintain an iron-grip on creative control. That's why you won't see any sandbox elements, and that's why you won't find development choices outside the narrow confines that Bioware believes are appropriate.

 

Its sad because its true. However I suspect as this wasn't the WOW killer that they predicted it does not have 10 million subs and had to go free to play they may be re-thinking some of there ideas. While I believe that you cant please all the people all the time, and MMO fans are harder to please than most its not impossible to actually give the impression you care what your player base and in a strange way employers want and work towards a compromise. Adding a few simple alien species in the same way people who want SGR are getting them on a single planet would help. Personaly I would be happy with limited customization to at least get to play the character I want to play.