PvE Guide to the Lethality Sniper by B'oard

[paowee]

Hey there, paowee. Feeling fanciful, I decided to look at your intro post, and noticed something.

 

For the full Lethality spec, this is what you have listed for the main rotation.

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

 

I don't know if I must be doing something wrong, but that never works. I always end up with

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - X - Cull - TD - repeat

I always get that open global right there. I've been running Lethality for a while now (loved it pre-2.0, came back seeing Orbital changes incoming) and have since adapted it slightly.

 

Now, it looks more like:

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - X - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

-X Priority

1.) Corrosive Mine (If practical, start moving immediately after Cull)

2.) Rifle Shot (If not near max energy/regens not ready)

3.) Snipe

 

Just wanted your thoughts. I can just never seem to rid myself of that global, but every time I see someone else post a Lethality rotation, it doesn't have one.

 

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat

 

is only a basic rotation. http://swtorboard.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/lethality-sniper/ is a bit more recent and if you watch the video it shows that there is always a "slight extra GCD" in between your 2 Culls. Normally you'd just wait it out and use Cull immediately but as you can see in that post using Roll as a filler (if you can) is a single target DPS increase.

 

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - SoS - Cull - TD - repeat ==> basic

CG - CD - WB - Cull - TD - "X" - SoS - Cull - TD ==> X = roll if you can. Slightly harder to pull off in a raid due to melee requirement. Also due to raid mechanics and movement, you normally would just Cull right away (without the X) otherwise you'd end up delaying Cull even longer. Personal preference. I do not have a parse that shows if delaying Cull everytime, to do , say a Snipe during every rotation is a gain in sustained DPS. What i DO know is that if you use Roll during X each time, it is going to be a DPS increase.

 

Just wanted your thoughts. I can just never seem to rid myself of that global, but every time I see someone else post a Lethality rotation, it doesn't have one

You do not want to get rid of it. You want to use it to roll or EP if energy/circumstances allow. Edited October 21, 2013 by paowee

[Torgru]

You do not want to get rid of it. You want to use it to roll or EP if energy/circumstances allow.

 

That's another thing I've been seeing. Use EP, use EP. I dunno if it's just me, but whenever I use EP, even with TA or AP ready, it starves my energy. But, in that same situation, with careful timing, I can instead use two snipes, and I've just been overall doing better by neglecting EP. As an example, last night I was playing around going back and forth, and those runs where I wasn't using EP at all, I was pulling ~3100, generally a little over. But, when I used EP, I capped out at 3050, because I struggled more with energy management.

 

I mean, I know that >3k is more than enough for any boss fight regardless, and at this point it's pretty much just nitpicking. Just how things have been working out for me, in my quite suboptimal gear.

 

For those wondering, dem enhancements. It's a work in progress.

[paowee]

Well that's good that you are getting more DPS by using Snipe instead of EP If you can parse and test it for us that would be great! In the meantime i try not to think too much about that extra GCD.

 

In a raid setting with mechanics that extra GCD sometimes/more often than not gets used by movement requirements and i just do the normal/usual Cull ---- Cull rotation. Can't even use the extra GCD to roll even, like say in fights like Tyrans or Dread Masters and Calphayus (i save the roll to get out of the huge red reticle). But if you are thinking of min-maxing for the training dummy, that's an entirely different thing.

Edited October 22, 2013 by paowee

[Torgru]

In my experience, even if it's a movement heavy point, I'll just throw out a rifle shot, worst case scenario. Overload Shot if doing decent on energy. AS for the roll, I agree completely. I see it as impractical for many fights. I also save it for the red circle in Cal, and it's way too risky in Tyrans. Others, like Grobthok, Draxus, Raptus, etc. I can see it fitting well enough, though.

 

As for your mentioning of my parsing, this is currently my highest parse, using the AMR profile I linked above. I've since gotten a couple upgrades, but I haven't actually parsed with it. And I'm fully aware I clipped my very first cull >_> I hate myself enough for it already.

 

One thing I don't like about parsing on the dummy is the armor debuff. It makes me float extra energy, that could otherwise be spent on Snipe. But, because I have to maintain it myself, I find myself just not having the wiggle room to get in Snipes with my energy, as I more often float on the edges. I'm thinking of asking an arsenal merc or jugg tank friend of mine to maintain the debuff for me, to get a more practical idea of what I'll do, as my group utilizies a jugg tank and a MM sniper anyway. It's rare I have to maintain Shatter Shot

Edited October 23, 2013 by Torgru

[paowee]

In my experience, even if it's a movement heavy point, I'll just throw out a rifle shot, worst case scenario. Overload Shot if doing decent on energy. AS for the roll, I agree completely. I see it as impractical for many fights. I also save it for the red circle in Cal, and it's way too risky in Tyrans. Others, like Grobthok, Draxus, Raptus, etc. I can see it fitting well enough, though.

 

As for your mentioning of my parsing, this is currently my highest parse, using the AMR profile I linked above. I've since gotten a couple upgrades, but I haven't actually parsed with it. And I'm fully aware I clipped my very first cull >_> I hate myself enough for it already.

 

One thing I don't like about parsing on the dummy is the armor debuff. It makes me float extra energy, that could otherwise be spent on Snipe. But, because I have to maintain it myself, I find myself just not having the wiggle room to get in Snipes with my energy, as I more often float on the edges. I'm thinking of asking an arsenal merc or jugg tank friend of mine to maintain the debuff for me, to get a more practical idea of what I'll do, as my group utilizies a jugg tank and a MM sniper anyway. It's rare I have to maintain Shatter Shot

 

Hah just as long as you're doing good on the operations you shouldn't be bothered by dummy parses! Do you happen to do 8man or 16man HM? If you do 16man HM check out this thread here.

[Torgru]

8man :/ I enjoy 16man, because it's a bunch of fun. But, my guild just doesn't have the bodies for it.

 

And yeah, definitely. Dummy parses =! raid skill in the slightest. Pushing out damage helps, but if you die because you weren't doing things right, that 3200 dps is going to drop to 0 really fast.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Torgru

[paowee]

Forgot to update the OP! lol. Full Lethality/Dirty Fighting video >>>>>

Edited December 2, 2013 by paowee

[RikuvonDrake]

Doing a bit of a necro here, but why would you not use Shrap Bomb before Shock Charge and then follow it up with Vital Shot in your dot rotation, considering that Shrap Bomb has a longer duration?

[namesaretough]

Doing a bit of a necro here, but why would you not use Shrap Bomb before Shock Charge and then follow it up with Vital Shot in your dot rotation, considering that Shrap Bomb has a longer duration?

 

As long as you apply them in the same order every time it doesn't really matter. The benefit of using shrap bomb after shock charge is that if something DOES go terribly wrong and you need to delay your second WS 3 seconds you're still OK, instead of the 1.5s you'd have if you started with shrap bomb. If everything is going well and you're reapplying in the same order every time, though, the order doesn't matter at all. (It was also kind of useful to lead with SC at 50 since it had the CD timer you could watch to make sure you started reapplying the dots at the correct time.)

 

The one thing you want to avoid is moving which GCD you're applying shock charge and vital shot on. For example, don't go Shrap bomb, Shock charge, GCD, Vital shot the first time, and SB-GCD-SC-VS while refreshing.

Edited November 27, 2013 by namesaretough

[RikuvonDrake]

Yea I always started with Shock Charge back pre. 2.0 but ended up starting with Shrap Bomb now since the duration is longer, but yea then I understand, thanks for the answer =)

[paowee]

Yea I always started with Shock Charge back pre. 2.0 but ended up starting with Shrap Bomb now since the duration is longer, but yea then I understand, thanks for the answer =)

 

Lol back in HM EC, i remember the main reason why i use Shock Charge first was for the 18 second timer. It's a good indication that you have to restart your rotation and reapply your DoTs again.

[Archaetorrhi]

Hey paowee, first off, thank you so much for setting up SWTORboard, that's been a huge help for me learning a number of new specs, including engineering! I'm persevering despite being surrounded by naysayers that engineering is too complicated...I'll prove 'em wrong! I was close to our top dps in HM bestia last night, so with some more refinement and solidification I'm getting there! All thanks to your guide. Hopefully it doesn't completely get screwed up with 2.6

 

Anyway, as to why I'm here. Hybrid! I've been working on this for a couple weeks, and I recently did my highest ever non-scatterbomb parse on the dummy of 3224 =D Here's my AMR: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/fdd872ec-e857-4912-90cb-2ebe66d85bed and the parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/551062 There's a couple places where I screwed up the energy, but I'm getting closer to not doing that. I recently put in 1 crit enhancement as of yesterday right before this, and it really helped with energy management. How am I doing with the gear that I have? About where I should be, or is there more room for improvement in my fluidity and APM? Working on getting rid of those last 72s, but it's hard since we're currently working through corruptor (hopefully engi can help put that guy and his adds in the ground tonight ) and I can't get many optimized 78 enhancements yet.

[paowee]

Hey paowee, first off, thank you so much for setting up SWTORboard, that's been a huge help for me learning a number of new specs, including engineering! I'm persevering despite being surrounded by naysayers that engineering is too complicated...I'll prove 'em wrong! I was close to our top dps in HM bestia last night, so with some more refinement and solidification I'm getting there! All thanks to your guide. Hopefully it doesn't completely get screwed up with 2.6

 

Anyway, as to why I'm here. Hybrid! I've been working on this for a couple weeks, and I recently did my highest ever non-scatterbomb parse on the dummy of 3224 =D Here's my AMR: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/fdd872ec-e857-4912-90cb-2ebe66d85bed and the parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/551062 There's a couple places where I screwed up the energy, but I'm getting closer to not doing that. I recently put in 1 crit enhancement as of yesterday right before this, and it really helped with energy management. How am I doing with the gear that I have? About where I should be, or is there more room for improvement in my fluidity and APM? Working on getting rid of those last 72s, but it's hard since we're currently working through corruptor (hopefully engi can help put that guy and his adds in the ground tonight ) and I can't get many optimized 78 enhancements yet.

 

You are actually not that far behind !

 

Top Hybrid parse

 

2.27%	3	Ambush	22710	87.33	7570	66.67%
2.42%	5	Snipe	24306	93.46	4861.2	60%
[color="Red"]2.82%	5	Takedown	28265	108.69	5653	40%[/color]
3.27%	36	Cluster Bombs	32778	126.04	910.5	19.44%
[color="Red"]3.42%	40	Rifle Shot	34243	131.67	856.08	30%[/color]
[color="Red"]5.37%	9	Explosive Probe (Tech)	53868	207.14	5985.33	44.44%[/color]
9.48%	93	Interrogation Probe (Tech)	95088	365.64	1022.45	36.56%
[color="Sienna"]10.06%	16	Orbital Strike	100847	387.78	6302.94	43.75%[/color]
[color="Red"]10.98%	49	Series of Shots	110086	423.31	2246.65	38.78%[/color]
11.19%	95	Poisoned (Tech)	112194	431.41	1180.99	48.42%
11.27%	104	Poisoned (Tech)	113011	434.56	1086.64	46.15%
27.44%	243	Cull	275115	1057.89	1132.16	39.51%

 

You

 

1.64%	3	Ambush	13588	52.19	4529.33	0%
2.89%	5	Snipe	24047	92.36	4809.4	80%
3.79%	32	Cluster Bombs	31479	120.91	983.72	34.38%
4.33%	44	Rifle Shot	35950	138.08	817.05	31.82%
4.68%	8	Explosive Probe (Tech)	38907	149.44	4863.38	12.5%
6.86%	12	Orbital Strike	57008	218.96	4750.67	16.67%
9.48%	42	Series of Shots	78761	302.51	1875.26	21.43%
11.15%	92	Poisoned (Tech)	92654	355.88	1007.11	40.22%
11.26%	95	Interrogation Probe (Tech)	93491	359.09	984.12	37.89%
12.13%	95	Poisoned (Tech)	100738	386.93	1060.4	38.95%
31.79%	243	Cull

 

He used 2 more Series of Shots

5 more Takedowns

1 more Explosive Probe

1 more Orbital Strike

 

in the same amount of time. that's about it. Orbital strike is a different color because i don't know how badly the nerfs are going to be. right now i don't know which of the 2 is more DPS (hybrid or lethality if 2.6 hits live. this thread is quite convoluted so if you want to learn more about hybrid check out this thread over at the slinger forums http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=668053 instead

Edited January 13, 2014 by paowee

[Archaetorrhi]

Awesome, thanks! I actually used Tam's to learn hybrid and your guide to learn engineering. Question about stats - does full power have higher damage potential? I put in one crit enhancement, but I'm also now running into a couple situations where I'm at 100% energy for a gcd or two (like in the waiting period up to a cull when I'm casting sniper or during a SoS).

 

So I'm kinda confused on the future of snipers. Right now I know most of them (Used engi on bestia, hybrid on tyrans and MM on cal last night...was really exciting 'cause it was our first clear of the last two!) but I really have no idea how they're going to play after 2.6 with the orbital changes, is that just something we're going to have to wait and see? I'm good at learning things off of guides like yours and KBN's, but I'm not so great at theorycrafting/numbercrunching myself so I depend on the good folks like you two in order to learn this crazy new things Should I start learning lethality as well, or is that a waste of time with the other 3 specs under my belt?

 

Also, where are you finding the leading hybrid parse? I want to get a look at the data.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Archaetorrhi

[paowee]

Awesome, thanks! I actually used Tam's to learn hybrid and your guide to learn engineering. Question about stats - does full power have higher damage potential? I put in one crit enhancement, but I'm also now running into a couple situations where I'm at 100% energy for a gcd or two (like in the waiting period up to a cull when I'm casting sniper or during a SoS).

 

So I'm kinda confused on the future of snipers. Right now I know most of them (Used engi on bestia, hybrid on tyrans and MM on cal last night...was really exciting 'cause it was our first clear of the last two!) but I really have no idea how they're going to play after 2.6 with the orbital changes, is that just something we're going to have to wait and see? I'm good at learning things off of guides like yours and KBN's, but I'm not so great at theorycrafting/numbercrunching myself so I depend on the good folks like you two in order to learn this crazy new things Should I start learning lethality as well, or is that a waste of time with the other 3 specs under my belt?

 

Also, where are you finding the leading hybrid parse? I want to get a look at the data.

 

Over here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685275 . Most people swear by full power 0 crit. but i like having some crit.. just personal preference. i have 1 crit earpiece iirc. You should definitely learn full lethality in light of the orbital nerfs just in case

[Archaetorrhi]

Gotcha, thanks for the help! I'll work on it soon.

So, where am I missing that last 600 dps? I'm assuming a chunk of that is my 72 mainhand, and I could add about 2 APM from looking at that top parse, but that's still a lot of dps to make up.

[Archaetorrhi]

http://www.torparse.com/a/552508/3/0/Overview - 3243

 

I think it's safe to say I have it learned. That took all of like half an hour Thank you hybrid!

[fyakyou]

So with the decrease in orb strike damage incoming, and the relatively recent increase to overload shot damage, what would your thoughts be on spec'ing into calculated pursuit instead of experimental explosives for a hybrid sniper?

[ArchangelLBC]

So with the decrease in orb strike damage incoming, and the relatively recent increase to overload shot damage, what would your thoughts be on spec'ing into calculated pursuit instead of experimental explosives for a hybrid sniper?

 

I think you're better off speccing into Precision Ambush in the MM tree for Armor Pen on Ambush and use that.

[paowee]

So with the decrease in orb strike damage incoming, and the relatively recent increase to overload shot damage, what would your thoughts be on spec'ing into calculated pursuit instead of experimental explosives for a hybrid sniper?

 

That is really interesting... might give that a test one of these days o_O;

[Ardarell_Solo]

I tried out precision Ambush and Calculated Pursuit while not using OS a while ago and it didn't convince me: Problem is, you're also losing extra surge on every crit tick of Corrosive Grenade and on your Frag grenades, which are important in add heavy fights.

 

But you'd probably go for Calculated Pursuit in PVP now...

[Psylee]

I tried out precision Ambush and Calculated Pursuit while not using OS a while ago and it didn't convince me: Problem is, you're also losing extra surge on every crit tick of Corrosive Grenade and on your Frag grenades, which are important in add heavy fights.

 

Yup i can confirm that

Corrosive Grenade

w/o Experimental Explosives = 1190

with Experimental Explosives = 1394

 

where Experimental Explosives wont add anything to Explosive Probe what was my main interest that made me test

w/o Experimental Explosives = 6824

with Experimental Explosives = 6846

 

for full lethality currently i prefer Precision Ambush instead 5 more energy and waiting for the day when relics will be fixed so we can dump that selfheal point

also 1 point in precision ambush wont make your non crit ambush hitting more than lazed snipe

but 2 point precision ambush makes non crit ambushes hit harder than crit snipes wich makes skill even more powerfull if crits

[paowee]

Yup i can confirm that

Corrosive Grenade

w/o Experimental Explosives = 1190

with Experimental Explosives = 1394

 

where Experimental Explosives wont add anything to Explosive Probe what was my main interest that made me test

w/o Experimental Explosives = 6824

with Experimental Explosives = 6846

 

for full lethality currently i prefer Precision Ambush instead 5 more energy and waiting for the day when relics will be fixed so we can dump that selfheal point

also 1 point in precision ambush wont make your non crit ambush hitting more than lazed snipe

but 2 point precision ambush makes non crit ambushes hit harder than crit snipes wich makes skill even more powerfull if crits

 

Do you clip SOS or delay Cull to get in that extra Ambush?

[Psylee]

im delaying Cull ,looks so hard to get a proper clipping on SoS on PTS with 200+ ms lag and energy drains me a lot ,1 out of 3 times im able to continue with rotation

someone mentioned using ambush before SoS than Cull could be more energy efficient and im eager to try that on next PTS visit

but if you manage to do that its a win win scenario i believe ,tho its so awkward

[paowee]

im delaying Cull ,looks so hard to get a proper clipping on SoS on PTS with 200+ ms lag and energy drains me a lot ,1 out of 3 times im able to continue with rotation

someone mentioned using ambush before SoS than Cull could be more energy efficient and im eager to try that on next PTS visit

but if you manage to do that its a win win scenario i believe ,tho its so awkward

 

It is and it will be difficult to pull of in raids optimally. I'm curious though if delaying Cull to fit in an Ambush each time is going to be a DPS increase versus just using Cull on cooldown.