techwitch Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 If they up team sizes they have to re-balance everything in every flashpoint. Not just the fights but the drops too. That's a lot of work. Seems more logical to implement an easier way for players to find and get into content so more groups can do the content at once, no? NO. While what you're suggesting would be nice, we make more than two or three friends playing MMO's. They need to cater to that. And forming an Ops Group is a cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You can do flashpoints (dungeons) or warzones (pvp) to your hearts content during those levels if you wish, offering practically the same multiplayer content as any other MMO. Thus far in the past 15 years of playing MMO's, I have yet to encounter a game where for actual leveling purposes it was mandatory to group up. SWTOR is no different in that. Everquest. The game that all MMOs are copied from. The game that created the industry. Grouping... mandatory. All existing MMO's are near carbon copies of the EQ formula with the most important aspect of that formula completely removed. Which is not to say that grouping should be mandatory, but it should certainly be an option. No, repeating a handful of quests over and over is not actually an option. Many games have successfully given players group-play alternatives within the same solo-friendly game. The easiest way is the CoH approach of scaling content for group size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fornix Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Oh God no...I'm fine with the 4, 8, 16 player caps. I wasn't suggesting anything MORE than that. Even still, I wouldn't want to be forced doing 16 man raiding. And if we look at parse statistics on e.g. torparse.com we can clearly see that with the same rewards, there are many more people running the smaller variants to ops. Indicating that gear only is the true incentive for players to bother with the larger variants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 On Ebon Hawk we often range double what you're talking about. Sorry if that seems normal to you. I really am. We have folks standing around waiting for respawns while opportunists in gangs ninja objectives out from under everyone else. If they want the server loads to be "Very Heavy" to "Full" they should have taken into consideration how to make objectives plentiful and just as easily attainable. Yeah, that's why I don't go the quest path any more. I've already run all the quests on each side once. I don't need to see them again. Not only is it boring, but the competition for resources you mentioned is insanely frustrating. In my quest to see all of the class stories all the way through before I terminate my account, I've rolled up all the rest of the classes I want to see. Each day I cycle through each of them in Groupfinder (fortunately they're all healers or tanks so it's usually a quick pop). When I get to the max level of the planet i need for my next class quest for a character, I go do the class quest story. Then it's back to the flashpoints. if I can find experience bonuses cheap enough on the GTN, I use those in the flashpoints. I'm the sort of player who doesn't mind the flashpoints so much, so this is a great solution for me. I don't have to repeat planetary and side quests. I don't have to deal with the "Kill X" or "Find X" quest resource competition. I get to see the class stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleaper Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Everquest. The game that all MMOs are copied from. The game that created the industry. Grouping... mandatory. All existing MMO's are near carbon copies of the EQ formula with the most important aspect of that formula completely removed. Which is not to say that grouping should be mandatory, but it should certainly be an option. No, repeating a handful of quests over and over is not actually an option. Many games have successfully given players group-play alternatives within the same solo-friendly game. The easiest way is the CoH approach of scaling content for group size. Absolutely! Its a simple concept and should not be very hard to code. Larger team size = increased hostile population within missions. ( heh anyone remember the hell of being on a full team with 2 or 3 controlers or MMs ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fornix Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Everquest. The game that all MMOs are copied from. The game that created the industry. Grouping... mandatory. All existing MMO's are near carbon copies of the EQ formula with the most important aspect of that formula completely removed. Which is not to say that grouping should be mandatory, but it should certainly be an option. No, repeating a handful of quests over and over is not actually an option. Many games have successfully given players group-play alternatives within the same solo-friendly game. The easiest way is the CoH approach of scaling content for group size. Never liked EQ, never really got into it, beyond that, I found it to be a pretty dead game compared to what I was used to with lineage. So I can't really judge well on the mandatory grouping there. Also I have very little with EQ being the granddaddy of all MMO's, as many features seen in current day MMO's were also seen in other titles preceeding EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 NO. While what you're suggesting would be nice, we make more than two or three friends playing MMO's. They need to cater to that. And forming an Ops Group is a cop out. Even before the quality of the game caused over 95% of my guild and 100% of my IRL friends to quit the game, it was very difficult to get more than a handful of them on at the same time, with the desire and availability to all do the same thing. If you consistently can get a group of more than 4 players all ready, willing, and able to do the same thing at the same time, good on you. That can't be the norm though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techwitch Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 And why can getting more than 4 people ready to go not be the norm? To suggest that 4 or less are more ready to go than 6 or 8 is rediculous. I'm not talking about scheduling raids, Flashpoints, or Ops. I'm talking about actually getting on with my friends, who I have made while playing various MMO's and playing the game. This isn't a scheduled "let's run for that golden grail of all that is jedi over there!", it's just playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petnil Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 the scaling of FP´s ofc would be an issue, but it could be worked out. In leveling FP it wouldn´t matter too much if you added an extra dps, and the hardmodes might be rescaled when this DLC comes anyways. Could be used to put an extra dps in the groups. The way i allways saw it was. The reason for making FP groups 4 man was not to be the same as WoW. Dooing something different just for the reason of beeing different is just bad. Looking at similar MMO´s they should have known aproximately how many tanks/healers/dps the playerbase would be. In WoW with 5man groups, and lets face it, the game is fairly similar exept for the world setting, I would get instant groups as tank 9 times out of 10. EAware should know that, and making 4man groups based on that info was imo stupid. Even with absolute no knowledge of what the playerbase would be in a future MMO with this trinity tank/heal/dps setup you could just ask any random MMO player what optimal groupsize would be for LFG groups. The majority would most likely go for 5 or 6 man groups. I doubt many would suggest 4 man groups for optimal groupfinder groups. Four man is nice if you happen to be four friend playing together. No need to find that anoying pug extra. But the same argument can be made for any groupsize. Imo if groups were made bigger in next expansion and hardmodes and future groupcontent scaled accordingly it would be good thing. I honestly cant see anything bad about it. Yes the leveling FP would be even easier, but so what. If people know what they´re dooing they allready are too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleaper Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 And why can getting more than 4 people ready to go not be the norm? To suggest that 4 or less are more ready to go than 6 or 8 is rediculous. I'm not talking about scheduling raids, Flashpoints, or Ops. I'm talking about actually getting on with my friends, who I have made while playing various MMO's and playing the game. This isn't a scheduled "let's run for that golden grail of all that is jedi over there!", it's just playing the game. Usually this is a matter of one of us wanting to get something accomplished and the rest saying 'Cool, we can help with that." While I do recognize that this might not be what most groups are used too, it is how we do things and it does typically work out well enough. I think allowing for scaling teams and ... Dare I say it? something like CoH's sidekicking system (which has been repeated in Champions as well as STO), and a minor expansion of team sizes, would allow more groups to play in similar manner. I mean how many of us have friends who get into this game to play with someone they know only to find that 1) cant group with my friend because his or her lvl 30+ toon will kill my exp and slow my lvling. 2) cant group with my friend because my lvl is too low for me to be effective with what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techwitch Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Having played City of Heroes/Villains, I am adamant about this thing concerning 4 or less being better. It's not. It isn't hard or shouldn't be hard to find 6 or 8 who are good to roll. We never did in CoH/V. Never did in any game I played that allowed larger teams for standard story arced missions. Edited January 9, 2013 by techwitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fornix Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Four man is nice if you happen to be four friend playing together. No need to find that anoying pug extra. But the same argument can be made for any groupsize. Imo if groups were made bigger in next expansion and hardmodes and future groupcontent scaled accordingly it would be good thing. I honestly cant see anything bad about it. Yes the leveling FP would be even easier, but so what. If people know what they´re dooing they allready are too easy. I personally have a feeling that that played an important role in the decision. I don't think EA/BioWare so much had the intention to rip away a major number of MMO players, but more along the lines of introducing new players to it. Players who've grown used to 4-man teams in non-MMO games on consoles as well as certain PC multiplayer titles as well. This allowed for a very casual minded player base to join in on the game, without needing to worry of taking a stranger along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techwitch Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Visions of Qui Gon and Obiwan come to mind. Yes. Exactly. Mentoring should be written into the game. Edited January 9, 2013 by techwitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 In this case smaller is better. If they increased to a 4 man by just adding a 3rd DPS like most due, it wouldn't only increase inbalance of tank/healer/dps ratio in queues. I like the smaller group sizes personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 In this case smaller is better. If they increased to a 4 man by just adding a 3rd DPS like most due, it wouldn't only increase inbalance of tank/healer/dps ratio in queues. I like the smaller group sizes personally. Actually it would make q's pop more quickly for DPS; however, they'd still have to rebalance all content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts