Pyro DPS rotation question

[Larry_Dallas]

Bout to switch my PT tank to Pyro. Anytime I've used that spec before, I pretty much just kept incendiary up and tried to proc rail shot as much as possible while maintaining heat regen. There's a guide on this page that seems to think that was, more or less, the correct approach.

 

However, Noxxic lists pyro pve rotation as including things against a single target that I've never used and isn't in this guide (specifically, DFA and flamethrower). So which rotation is the highest damage? Noxxic's? Or the one on this page?

 

I've mostly just pvped with pyro spec at 50, so I never really looked into it this deeply until now.

 

Also, for the set bonus, should I be repurposing old battlemaster shells or stick with the PVE set bonus?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Larry_Dallas

[ScytheEleven]

DFA is one of your hardest hitting abilities, that much is true. If you use it during OPs on a boss, that's fine just as long as you don't miss a second aiming the reticule. I don't base my rotation off it, but if I feel like my heat is fine and I can set the reticule quickly enough, I'll use it. If you fumble around trying to get the reticule placed properly, then it's a DPS loss for sure.

 

As for flamethrower, I never use it, unless it's the Trandoshian adds that spawn during the Kephess fight.

Edited January 6, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[Larry_Dallas]

DFA is one of your hardest hitting abilities, that much is true. If you use it during OPs on a boss, that's fine just as long as you don't miss a second aiming the reticule. I don't base my rotation off it, but if I feel like my heat is fine and I can set the reticule quickly enough, I'll use it. If you fumble around trying to get the reticule placed properly, then it's a DPS loss for sure.

 

As for flamethrower, I never use it, unless it's the Trandoshian adds that spawn during the Kephess fight.

 

Cool. Thanks.

[OlosBC]

I tend to use both. Flamethrower is elemental, so not mitigated by armor, and ends up doing almost as much damage as DFA.

 

Definitely prioritize incendiary missile in your 2 free GCDs if it's not up and you have the heat for it though.

 

Basically after every procced rail shot you will have 2 GCDs to use on things other than flame burst and rocket punch.

 

If you're high on heat, rapid shots.

If low, IM then rapid shots

If low and heat is fine, DFA or flamethrower.

If it's a burn phase and you've got cooldowns up and vent heat ready to go, just keep spamming flame burst, especially if you have to move.

 

 

 

 

DFA ends up being a bit more damage than 2 flame bursts(including the two free hits of CGC), providing that you have the armor debuff, and costs 25 heat instead of 32, so its a bit of a gain.

Same deal with flamethrower, it's a bit cheaper than 2 flame bursts, and about the same damage.

 

Don't use DFA or Flamethrower if you're expecting movement or knockbacks. In those situations, if you have the heat, just do one FB and a rapid shots.

 

Recently got my PT tank set up for pyro as well, fun spec. Thrashes my sorc's numbers pretty easily already.

[Larry_Dallas]

I tend to use both. Flamethrower is elemental, so not mitigated by armor, and ends up doing almost as much damage as DFA.

 

Definitely prioritize incendiary missile in your 2 free GCDs if it's not up and you have the heat for it though.

 

Basically after every procced rail shot you will have 2 GCDs to use on things other than flame burst and rocket punch.

 

If you're high on heat, rapid shots.

If low, IM then rapid shots

If low and heat is fine, DFA or flamethrower.

If it's a burn phase and you've got cooldowns up and vent heat ready to go, just keep spamming flame burst, especially if you have to move.

 

 

 

 

DFA ends up being a bit more damage than 2 flame bursts(including the two free hits of CGC), providing that you have the armor debuff, and costs 25 heat instead of 32, so its a bit of a gain.

Same deal with flamethrower, it's a bit cheaper than 2 flame bursts, and about the same damage.

 

Don't use DFA or Flamethrower if you're expecting movement or knockbacks. In those situations, if you have the heat, just do one FB and a rapid shots.

 

Recently got my PT tank set up for pyro as well, fun spec. Thrashes my sorc's numbers pretty easily already.

 

Thanks. So flamethrowers' not a "try to get it in off cooldown" thing, it's a "try and fit it in while railshot proc isn't available if you can" thing.

 

And yeah, we're in the identical boat. Former main was a madness sorc.

[T-Assassin]

i never use DFA or FT on single targets...NEVER! waste of DPS, according to my parses.

 

altho, i am spec'd 8/8/25, do not use rocket punch (stock strike), unless i'm running thru a mob or am required to be <4m for interrupting.

 

IM is a waste of heat, also, if you ask me. but, this set-up fits my play style. ~9m kiting, running, pumpin out elememntal dps thru FB (IP).

 

close with rapid shots(RpS), which a majority of the time will proc CGC, Rail shot. FB, RS, FB, RpS, FB, RS.

 

that's basic...of course, you will have to proc RS, so you will have to manage heat with RpS/FB combo. not to mention Vent heat, and other buffs/stims to really up burst DPS.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/89427/59

 

#1 VG parse recorded, #9 overall. i know it's only SM, but, i am only in 61's (58's in belt), so i have room for improvement. (4VG/4JS OP...btw. missing a lot of debuffs)

 

i've tested every possible spec, this is just what works for me.

 

tackle a training dummy, turn on your combat logging, and use torparse...that's the best way to figure it out.

Edited January 7, 2013 by T-Assassin

[steave]

i never use DFA or FT on single targets...NEVER! waste of DPS, according to my parses.

 

altho, i am spec'd 8/8/25, do not use rocket punch (stock strike), unless i'm running thru a mob or am required to be <4m for interrupting.

 

IM is a waste of heat, also, if you ask me. but, this set-up fits my play style. ~9m kiting, running, pumpin out elememntal dps thru FB (IP).

 

close with rapid shots(RpS),

 

Yeah, the only thing I disagree on is IM - I don't use it most of the time, but I find it useful for my opener and for our burst phases. The IM ticks depending on your current stats, not the stats you had when you fired it, so I like to open with TSO > IM > Pop relic and adrenal > RS > EF+FB > FB/RP/RS until the relic boost runs out, vent heat to keep heat under control > normal rotation without IM. I'll also use it at times when dealing with a boss that can't be hit yet, but soon will, such as Soa and the walker in the EC Kephess fight.

That achieves 3 things -

1. Applies a burn effect without risking a wasted proc CD

2. With the huge power and crit chance bonuses that IM actually does quite a bit of damage

3. Doesn't rely on RpS to apply a burn first, so I can use my speeder to quickly close the distance at the start of a fight

 

I also definitely prefer to be close when possible, RP does more damage then FB and has a higher chance to reset RS, but it's not a huge deal ofc - if the situation calls for it I'll back of and use the 10m range (mainly Gharj while he's doing his melee aoe and EC Kephess while killing the last of the 3 small droids so I can stand back a bit in range of all 3 bomber spawn points ready to pull it in).

 

 

I tried Noxxics rotation at first with the DoA and FT, but it just wasn't doing any more damage than the one without them but required me to stand still instead of staying mobile, and if there's the slightest mistake with DoA placement and/or the target moves it will be a straight DPS loss.

Both are awesome for aoe damage of course, helps a ton with killing the trenchcutters on the Kephess fight, butfor single target? No ty.

 

 

There's 4 PTs and 1 VG ahead of you though, and it's #16 total rather then #9. Additionally, it's more about timing your burst to when he's taking the most damage rather than best rotation there, and your puzzle solvers will play a much larger role in the DPS race then the people actually hitting the boss, so that's a pretty irrelevant fight for measuring DPS records IMO.

Edited January 8, 2013 by steave

[OlosBC]

Yea I mean its not gonna be a big difference either way.

 

I'm currently using 8/6/27, not 100% on what's optimal tho.

 

Fabricator doesn't count different ways of doing the puzzle and different efficiencies at will have more effect on DPS than gear/skill.

[T-Assassin]

Yea I mean its not gonna be a big difference either way.

 

I'm currently using 8/6/27, not 100% on what's optimal tho.

 

Fabricator doesn't count different ways of doing the puzzle and different efficiencies at will have more effect on DPS than gear/skill.

 

i have found that IP/CGC is roughly >100 DPS higher than SS (individual damage). (8/8/25 spec) the only purpose fo SS is to reset HiB, very situational.

 

OPs dummy parses continually put me ~80-100+ DPS higher NOT using SS, and proc'ing HiB thru the use of IP.

 

at the time of the Fabricator parse, my highest mod was 61, no DG proc relic(using Champion, not WH relic), and 58's in belt/bracers. so, it counts for me. i'm nowhere near BiS, yet still do very respectable DPS in a unique spec. and being <100DPS off top 50 in the rest of the fights, i think the spec works for me.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/89427/56

 

that's the Foreman...should be 6th on list, in the above gear.

 

oh, not to mention, that was my 2nd or 3rd OP on my VG, ever. recently swapped all mods from BH/Merc.

 

ran a HM TFB for the first time. >100 DPS off top 50. this time all 61's, 2DG relics, 63's in bracer, MH/OH. (99.89%, 35/75/1050)

 

don't confuse my stats as boasting...i'm merely testing my 8/8/25 IP/CGC > SS theory in a non-controlled environment (OPs) versus the standard VG/PT builds and top performers.

Edited January 8, 2013 by T-Assassin

[wetslampigduex]

i never use DFA or FT on single targets...NEVER! waste of DPS, according to my parses.

 

altho, i am spec'd 8/8/25, do not use rocket punch (stock strike), unless i'm running thru a mob or am required to be <4m for interrupting.

 

IM is a waste of heat, also, if you ask me. but, this set-up fits my play style. ~9m kiting, running, pumpin out elememntal dps thru FB (IP).

 

close with rapid shots(RpS), which a majority of the time will proc CGC, Rail shot. FB, RS, FB, RpS, FB, RS.

 

that's basic...of course, you will have to proc RS, so you will have to manage heat with RpS/FB combo. not to mention Vent heat, and other buffs/stims to really up burst DPS.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/89427/59

 

#1 VG parse recorded, #9 overall. i know it's only SM, but, i am only in 61's (58's in belt), so i have room for improvement. (4VG/4JS OP...btw. missing a lot of debuffs)

 

i've tested every possible spec, this is just what works for me.

 

tackle a training dummy, turn on your combat logging, and use torparse...that's the best way to figure it out.

 

IM accounts for roughly 20% of your damage for 1

 

For 2 I am the highest recorded PT/VG for that foreman crusher fight(NiM not that it makes any difference)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/62369/23

 

3 as someone else stated poor judge of dps on that fight it is all about how quickly the puzzles done.

 

ALWAYS keep IM Dot on heres a few examples to wrap your head around from the same instance

 

Jarg and Sorno- http://www.torparse.com/a/87648/11 1987 DPS good for 8th on the list

 

Karagga- http://www.torparse.com/a/62369/28 1907 dps good for 23

 

They were all pug runs i can't wait to unleash on my guild because parts of these were very hectic... i mean i tanked jarg for about 1:30 seconds of that fight and had to run away so the tank realized he wasn't tanking(had 120k dmg taken... when i tank TFB on my sin in that 15 min tfb fight i take roughly 230-270k dmg)

[OlosBC]

Yea rp/as isn't really any better at all than fb/IP(roughly equal if armor debuff is present, counting the auto dot tick).

 

If cgc dot is not present, I ALWAYS fb before rp. Miss like 4 ticks of the dot if you do rp-rs without CCC dot up.

[T-Assassin]

IM accounts for roughly 20% of your damage for 1

 

For 2 I am the highest recorded PT/VG for that foreman crusher fight(NiM not that it makes any difference)

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/62369/23

 

maybe i'm blind, i see you at 24...

 

3 as someone else stated poor judge of dps on that fight it is all about how quickly the puzzles done.

 

ALWAYS keep IM Dot on heres a few examples to wrap your head around from the same instance

 

Jarg and Sorno- http://www.torparse.com/a/87648/11 1987 DPS good for 8th on the list

 

Karagga- http://www.torparse.com/a/62369/28 1907 dps good for 23

 

They were all pug runs i can't wait to unleash on my guild because parts of these were very hectic... i mean i tanked jarg for about 1:30 seconds of that fight and had to run away so the tank realized he wasn't tanking(had 120k dmg taken... when i tank TFB on my sin in that 15 min tfb fight i take roughly 230-270k dmg)

 

well, i can't seem to break 1800 DPS maintaining IncindRound on tgt...

 

but, i can maintain high 1800's w/out IR/SS, as well as never having ammo/heat issues...even during bad proc rolls.

 

this is on dummy, where 30% dmg increase is never considered, so i can see the increase on OPs bosses.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/93926/4

 

idk. really only been playing this class a few weeks (Merc/PT drop-out), and still far from BiS.

 

more experience, OPs, and better gear will be telling.

 

*EDIT* your RS avg hit being 2k higher than mine equals better gear or group make-up. i like the spec/playstyle and will continue to use it, unitl my testing proves otherwise.

Edited January 8, 2013 by T-Assassin

[T-Assassin]

Yea rp/as isn't really any better at all than fb/IP(roughly equal if armor debuff is present, counting the auto dot tick).

 

If cgc dot is not present, I ALWAYS fb before rp. Miss like 4 ticks of the dot if you do rp-rs without CCC dot up.

 

correct me if i am wrong...

 

IP = ~2050/hit

SS = ~2150/hit

 

IP procs CGC so, technically:

 

IP/CGC = ~2900/hit

 

i'm aware CGC ticks, but after MUCH testing, i have yet to yield a parse where using SS (or IR) is higher than without. by as close as 20DPS to as far as ~200DPS difference.

 

[wetslampigduex]

By your parse yeah it seems to be working, i've only had one chance to bang on an ops dummy in the past few weeks and you beat it by 1 dps lol. I don't have all 4 buff's so i don't bother i did this quick when i had 8 mins left on my buffs. But, yeah man if it's working no need to fix it.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/85540/18

 

Supposed to be raiding tonight so i'll see if i can get a few parses in before hand... oh wait i have to tank all my GD raids FML.

[T-Assassin]

By your parse yeah it seems to be working, i've only had one chance to bang on an ops dummy in the past few weeks and you beat it by 1 dps lol. I don't have all 4 buff's so i don't bother i did this quick when i had 8 mins left on my buffs. But, yeah man if it's working no need to fix it.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/85540/18

 

Supposed to be raiding tonight so i'll see if i can get a few parses in before hand... oh wait i have to tank all my GD raids FML.

 

 

i know these always turn into a dick measuring contest, that is not my intention, seriously..

 

i'm trying to really squeeze out as much DPS as possible, while maintaining good mobility/survivability in OPs. (PUG OP more than organized)

 

appreciate the comments, and criticism.

 

always good to have a 2nd, 3rd, 20th opinion...i went back and tried IR, SS, many specs/tips i've read...

 

just can't seem to get any better than what i'm running, atm...again, OPs dummy...so, i can see how IR +30% under 30% could be quite significant on high HP OPs bosses...

 

i'll keep trying things and attempting to improve...

Edited January 8, 2013 by T-Assassin

[OlosBC]

Def not saying to prioritize IM over CGC dot (FB) or proccing free RS. You just use it in the 2 non proccing GCDs if its down and you have the heat to spare (happens to me fairly often in my experience). Same deal with flamethrower and dfa. Only prioritized really on aoe but I like trying to fit them in instead of rapid shots spam.

[jolstar]

I agree with some of the other posters that IM is a good opener and good for burn phases. I only really use it in two other cases. If I know I'm about to be >10m away from a boss (ie berserk toth in nightmare ec), I'll pop it before running out. Another good time to use it is before using a proc'd RS, if the RS could cause you to bottom out.

 

As for DFA/FT, there are the obvious use cases (aoe packs and when you are forced to be >10m of boss). Because they are channeled they can also be nice to use with TSO because you do more damage than RpS, but you're still venting heat as if you were using RpS.

[ScytheEleven]

So I decided to parse myself for the first time last night. I'm in about 70% campaign, 30% Dread Guard, optimized (100.4% accuracy, 36% crit fully buffed and stim, and 76% surge. Rest is power. All Aim augments).

 

I actually did two (2) parses: one in the morning, and one before I went to bed. The one in the morning I tried to keep Incendiary Missile up whenever heat allowed (typically after a free rail shot when my heat was low). I had zero lag during this parse, since there was only like 50 people on the fleet. I ended up at 1810 DPS. My RNG for procs was pretty good.

 

The 2nd parse was done at peak hours, and there were times (up to two seconds at points!) when my moves were simply unresponsive due to latency. Should've switched instances, dumb mistake not too. But on this round, I only used Incendiary Missile when Thermal Overrides was back up. Even with terrible latency bursts, I hit 1900 DPS. Again, my RNG for procs was pretty good.

 

If I didn't hit those latency spikes, I think I could've been around 1950 DPS or higher.

 

EDIT: Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it, I really hope that in the new expansion, the Pyro PT tree gets either A) a jet-charge for a gap closer, would help a lot in OPs or 2) a heat-cost reduction for IM. I'm still not sure why IM costs 25 heat; it should cost only 16 IMO.

Edited January 14, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[OlosBC]

Try parsing on the ship droid. No mechanical difference, but almost zero lag.

 

And while charge or cheaper IM would be nice, IMO, pyro doesn't need any help right now. Distance isn't really a problem, since rapid shots spam while closing is over 1k DPS (plus rail every 15 secs and regenning heat).

 

The one thing ptech needs is a threat drop, and hopefully not a *****y one like juggs got.

Edited January 14, 2013 by OlosBC

[wetslampigduex]

 

well, i can't seem to break 1800 DPS maintaining IncindRound on tgt...

 

but, i can maintain high 1800's w/out IR/SS, as well as never having ammo/heat issues...even during bad proc rolls.

 

this is on dummy, where 30% dmg increase is never considered, so i can see the increase on OPs bosses.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/93926/4

 

idk. really only been playing this class a few weeks (Merc/PT drop-out), and still far from BiS.

 

more experience, OPs, and better gear will be telling.

 

*EDIT* your RS avg hit being 2k higher than mine equals better gear or group make-up. i like the spec/playstyle and will continue to use it, unitl my testing proves otherwise.

 

Yeah i miss typed and put foreman crusher when i should have typed fabricator. Also your 6th on the list... thats a 58 second parselol