Vanguard Tanking-- From a Newcomer's Perspective

[paul_preib]

While most threads tend to be made by those already well-versed in Vanguard tanking I thought it might be interesting to just throw out there some of the tidbits and items I've picked up so far as a player with a fairly fresh Vanguard tank (about two weeks at 50) and what I've noticed from that vantage point:

 

1.Stat distribution: While there has been some debate on specific values it is a general consensus to put a far higher stat budget into shield/absorb than defense, with most of the arguments being centered at either 14-15% or 17-18% defense. Also of note was that a great consensus seemed to be that Accuracy was of little to no value with threat being heavily based around tech and ion cylinder.

 

2.Freshly 50: When first gearing my fresh 50 a big asset for PVE was to pick up the pvp supercommando set and buy one shield relic on the side. This way I could use earpiece/implants/belt/bracer for PVE along with being able to rotate between 2 shield relics or one each shield/defense based upon how my other gear looked. Most of the first few days were spent with the 1 shield/1 defense, only switching to shield X 2 once the BH gear started filling in.

 

2a.If you are not adverse to pvp, spending some time either in the 10-49 bracket before you level or gutting through being a recruit 50 can help a lot, Weapon/Implant/Earpiece/Shield can be especially helpful here, leaving your endurance a bit lower but putting your secondary stats in a good place (if you can find at least a columi grade offhand you can swap out the armoring in your shield, but the mod/enhancement in the war hero shield is well itemized and makes an almost imperceptible stand-in for BH while you fill in the rest of your pieces.

 

Note: When doing this don't forget to buy a couple of cheap endurance color crystals off the GTN-- If you don't care about color you can get +41's very cheap.

 

2b.Augmentation-- When it comes to augments you don't want to waste credits on something replaced in two days time. Because of this one should probably think about the order in which they will be augmenting their gear. Because the 4-piece set bonus is quite valuable you will be able to comfortably keep 4 pieces of your tionese on as you upgrade the innards, So depending on which piece you may want to have aesthetic flexibility on (usually head or chest) augment the other 4 right away. Also able to be augmented right away would be one shield relic (the other one will probably see enough changing around that you can wait on). Weapon and shield are also moddable and thus be a safe early augment. You could also utilize a slightly sub-par tionese/daily comm grade armoring/mod in orange belt/bracer so as to open it up right away for augmentation. These all put you at 9/14 items augmented at a cost of roughly 380k credits (or one set of all dailies, which you'll be running for either the absorb proc relic or rakata implants/earpiece).

 

note: Unless you are overflowing with credits, blue 48 augments are significantly cheaper, being able to be in 10 blue augments provides far superior gains to 3 purple augments at a similar cost (even counting the additional 30k install fees).

 

3.Now what: THe biggest difficulty when you first hit 50 is figuring out just what priority to go after when it comes to your gear. This is compounded when you don't have the luxury of a few alts with legacy gear to have some simultaneous gear acquisitions. That said, there are some things to bear in mind:

 

a.Implants/Earpieces: They come very cheap, but the flip to this is you can get War Hero ones fairly easily, as well as Rakata Implants via daily comms or GTN (as they are both well itemized and BoE).

 

b.Ideal Stat distribution: While there may be some temptation to jump first to belt/bracer/gloves/boots as they are far cheaper then other items, they also leave to be desired in terms of their enhancements (being accuracy heavy), belt and bracer will eventually displaced by moddable orange ones. The Chest/Helmet/Legs have itemized such that you can use all three items (armoring/mod/enhancement) giving you a much better early return on investment.

 

 

4.Fine Tuning: So the early gear path is planned out, you have the majority of your gear augmented.... now what?

 

This comes the part where you start getting slightly smaller return-on-investment items. This comes in terms of two-item pieces, which generally are either legs (mod/enhancement) or gloves/boots (armoring/mod). Which order is up to you. Personally I got two spare set of legs to drop the mod/enhacement into my columi-grade boots and gloves first, then purchased the gloves and boots, moving the mods into orange bracer and belt slots (with armorings yoinked from columi offhands).

 

I would base which you do first around the rest of your gear, the above way means keeping ahold of the defense relic for a little while, the other swapping that out for a second shield relic (until you have the comms for absorb-proc).

 

Obviously there is more detail-work to go beyond that, but it is at least a start and leaves you at a point where you're able to effectively handle everything short of top-end progression operations as it puts you at (unstimmed) just over 23K health, 60% shield, 60% absorb, 13% Defense (yes a bit low but some is recouped on stim, and a tiny more gained via the fine-er tuning that I've yet to reach.

[paul_preib]

Actually Tanking

 

So Part One handled gear, but what about all that actual-tanking stuff, from spec to rotation. Here's a few bullet-pointers that can help out based on what I've seen so far

 

Spec-- Most of it is pretty cut and dried. At the end of the day most of the debating seemed to center around 2 floater points in heavy stock vs. soldier's endurance. My personal take-- if you start out with a 61 pvp barrel go with soldier's endurance (your damage/threat will already be in a good place while you need to offset the 20ish lost endurance of a pvp weapon). If you start out with PVE weapons (meaning most likely a tionese barrel until you're ready for LI HM) then I'd take heavy stock.

 

 

Rotation-- Again pretty simple for single target, keep Stockstrike, High Impact bolt, Energy Blast on CD. Ion pulse at least frequently enough to keep Static field up. If its a fight where you can charge in don't forget your free explosive surges. Even if the damage is quite small on a single target, it's still free-- right after your first stockstrike/HiB combo is a nice place as you'll then be recovering the ammo from your first two abilities at the same time.

 

Trash/Multi Mob-- This can be a little more complicated as it depends on several factors such as how many, mob placement, CC, etc. but by and large

 

1.Have any CC prioritize outliers-- This allows you to aoe center of mass.

 

 

2.Utilize AoE-- Vanguards are great aoe tanks with several generators. Ideally if mobs are laid out right--

 

Mortar Volley--> Charge--> Explosive Surge X2--> Pulse Cannon

 

Pulse Cannon is usually most effective if you back up a step or two after the initial charge to position such that you catch most mobs in front of that cone.

 

 

3.Outliers-- If there's not the CC to handle all outliers, being just too many or the trash all spread too thin, a few things can be useful to help ensure you keep everything under wraps.

 

Weak Target: Grenade-- Flinging a grenade at a standard mob will work the same as a short-term CC while causing damage (threat) at the tail end.

 

Stronger Target: Set focus to the outlier --> charge the main group--> select focus target and harpoon to you--> explosive surge/continue with rotation as normal.

 

 

4.Taunts-- As general good practice (such as saving them for tank swaps in operations) I try to utilize taunts as an "oh crap" tool rather then an easy quick aggro item, using them generally for breakaway mobs heading towards ranged dps or one I missed that's healer-bound. Done right I'll go a full HM without using taunt at all. Obviously using group finder you'll occasionally run with dps that vastly outgear you and you will have no choice.

 

 

5.Guard-- While healers sometimes have a tendency to ask for guard, the reality is that the only time they should be pulling aggro is on a mob you missed/haven't yet hit, if you're dealing damage you should out-threat the heals, meaning that an aggro reduction via guard would still be useless as the mob running for said healer has had 0 threat established by the tank.

 

Instead I prefer to place guard on the highest dps in the group, oftentimes a sentinel or DPS vanguard as they are far more likely to benefit from the reduced aggro by having more free-reign to go full-out. If you have two similarly geared/capable dpsers then keep in mind aggro reducers and defensive cds-- For example Force camo + the defensive cooldowns of a sentinel are far more effective then the toolset an assault vanguard would have.

 

6.Cooldowns-- Really not much to say here as vanguards are heavily passive-mitigation based, with few active cooldowns. The only thing to bear in mind is that because of this you better make entirely certain you need to use them before you waste them (such as seeing your healer out of resource, engrage, etc.).

[steave]

Very good post.

4.Taunts-- As general good practice (such as saving them for tank swaps in operations) I try to utilize taunts as an "oh crap" tool rather then an easy quick aggro item, using them generally for breakaway mobs heading towards ranged dps or one I missed that's healer-bound. Done right I'll go a full HM without using taunt at all. Obviously using group finder you'll occasionally run with dps that vastly outgear you and you will have no choice.

Are you unguilded? I had the same experience before I joined my guild, I couldn't understand why everyone was talking about needing to use taunts to build threat - I was doing just fine and never lost aggro even without using those!

..But then I started doing guild runs trough TFB HM and EC NiM with great DPS players that where actually pushing rather than taking it easy like they would in a FP, and that's a completely different story. I'm BiS (other than my earpiece, no crafters and haven't had the right one drop yet), but when they start up with their opening bursts combined with bloodthirst/inspiration they'll rip aggro right off me if I don't use my taunts properly. I'll start out with a few high threat moves and then single target taunt , wait 6 seconds while I continue building threat with attacks and then aoe taunt and after that it's usually fine, but if not my single target taunt will be available again 3 seconds later. You need to be a bit careful with the timing on the first taunt though, on fights where the first tank swap occur pretty early you may need to pop it after only ~2 attacks to ensure that it's available again before it's needed for the swap.

[mxlm]

4.Taunts-- As general good practice (such as saving them for tank swaps in operations) I try to utilize taunts as an "oh crap" tool rather then an easy quick aggro item, using them generally for breakaway mobs heading towards ranged dps or one I missed that's healer-bound. Done right I'll go a full HM without using taunt at all. Obviously using group finder you'll occasionally run with dps that vastly outgear you and you will have no choice.

 

Note that the Vanguard taunt has a delay. At close range the delay is maybe .2 seconds. If you're at max range, expect 1.5 seconds from the time you activate your taunt until it actually takes effect. If you activate storm immediately before activating the taunt, that drops down to about .2 seconds.

[slafko]

I too only use my taunts as a means to get aggro off of someone that manages to aggro a different mob or is too dumb to move out of a patrol's way. That's in flashpoints and when I'm feeling generous. Usually, I just leave them to cope on their own to make them learn from their mistakes.

 

Operations are another matter entirely. Ofcourse you're going to use your single taunt on boss swaps and area taunt when pulling groups of mobs for easy aoe nuking.

[bsweitzer]

Great information. I never thought of guarding the DPS. I was taught to always guard tank but guarding the DPS makes so much more sense. I normally do a PUG to do FP and you get those over geared DPS Sent's. LOL. Thank you for the great guide.

[Heezdedjim]

The only point of misinformation is about taunts. They work differently in this game than they do in most, because they are threat multipliers as well as attention getters. Taunts for tanks, and threat drops for heals and DPS, are not "oh ****!" tools; they are a core part of your rotation.

 

When they're doing it right, tanks will be using their taunts on CD, and heals / DPS will be using their threat drops on CD. Taunts and threat reducers should never be used to open a fight, and should never be used except in emergencies on a mob that you're not already hitting.

 

The reason is that when you use a taunt it takes the threat held by whoever is at the top of the mob's hate list, multiplies that amount by 1.3, then assigns that amount to you. This is true even if you are already at the top of the hate list (i.e., it adds 30% to your own total threat, even if you already have aggro). The result is that the higher the total threat generated gets, the more effective a taunt is. Late in a fight, the last couple taunts you pop will account for 50-80% of the total ultimate threat you have against a mob.

 

Threat drops work in the opposite way; they take your total threat against all mobs, multiply it by 0.8, then assign that amount to you. So each time you pop a threat drop, you're taking a big part of whatever threat you have and throwing it away.

 

If you look at a graph of how this works out, you will see that a tank using taunts on CD will have a constantly growing, and eventually staggeringly high threat. This is because the higher the threat goes, the more the multiplier adds each time. A healer or DPS using their threat drop on CD, however, will have a relatively low and steady-state or plateaued "saw tooth" threat curve. It goes up, then drops back down; up, and back down. Even though they're healing or doing damage the whole time, the threat drop causes them to "cap out" at a level that is much lower than what a proper tank will be holding, and stay there.

 

This is how a tank can get ahead of DPS and healers and stay there, even though the tank is doing nominally very weak damage. The use of taunts on CD + the automatic 100% threat bonus you get from your tank stance is what makes tanks "work" in PvE. The corresponding use of threat drops on CD by DPS and heals is what makes the whole team work together (at least in terms of threat control).

Edited July 29, 2013 by Heezdedjim

[Thuggie]

The only point of misinformation is about taunts. They work differently in this game than they do in most, because they are threat multipliers as well as attention getters. Taunts for tanks, and threat drops for heals and DPS, are not "oh ****!" tools; they are a core part of your rotation.

 

When they're doing it right, tanks will be using their taunts on CD, and heals / DPS will be using their threat drops on CD. Taunts and threat reducers should never be used to open a fight, and should never be used except in emergencies on a mob that you're not already hitting.

 

The reason is that when you use a taunt it takes the threat held by whoever is at the top of the mob's hate list, multiplies that amount by 1.3, then assigns that amount to you. This is true even if you are already at the top of the hate list (i.e., it adds 30% to your own total threat, even if you already have aggro). The result is that the higher the total threat generated gets, the more effective a taunt is. Late in a fight, the last couple taunts you pop will account for 50-80% of the total ultimate threat you have against a mob.

 

Threat drops work in the opposite way; they take your total threat against all mobs, multiply it by 0.8, then assign that amount to you. So each time you pop a threat drop, you're taking a big part of whatever threat you have and throwing it away.

 

If you look at a graph of how this works out, you will see that a tank using taunts on CD will have a constantly growing, and eventually staggeringly high threat. This is because the higher the threat goes, the more the multiplier adds each time. A healer or DPS using their threat drop on CD, however, will have a relatively low and steady-state or plateaued "saw tooth" threat curve. It goes up, then drops back down; up, and back down. Even though they're healing or doing damage the whole time, the threat drop causes them to "cap out" at a level that is much lower than what a proper tank will be holding, and stay there.

 

This is how a tank can get ahead of DPS and healers and stay there, even though the tank is doing nominally very weak damage. The use of taunts on CD + the automatic 100% threat bonus you get from your tank stance is what makes tanks "work" in PvE. The corresponding use of threat drops on CD by DPS and heals is what makes the whole team work together (at least in terms of threat control).

 

Most of your post is wrong. The over all values may be true, but you should never use your taunt when it isn't needed, which is not listed in your wall of text, but the wall of text you posted is also silently saying this.

 

The job of a tank is to hold agro by generating more threat than the other people in the raid. Using your taunt on cool down to build threat is a waste. Why would I argue this? Simple.

 

1. If you are keeping agro on a boss there is no need to taunt, you are already on top of the mobs threat list. Meaning using taunt would only widen the gap between you and the next dps, the only thing you are accomplishing is being a wasteful over achiever. While also wasting a global cool down that does 0 damage.

 

2. If adds spawn and you have been blowing your taunt on cool down, well those adds may have just killed someone, good job again over achiever.

 

3. I am not 100% sure but in other games taunts have diminishing returns, meaning eventually your target is going to become immune to your taunts, when the tank swap mechanic happens you are SoL. Good job you over achiever.

 

I would strongly recommend new players to totally disregard this nice looking wall of text.

 

In lieu of what he wrote, I would strongly strongly suggest new players to practice building agro without using taunt, do this and you will be a great tank.

 

For my input on the OP's helpful guide it was well written. But as far as being a new comer, gear doesn't really matter, the gear that has the highest priority should be any gear with aim, endurance, absorb, shielding. This gear will allow you to tank all flash points fairly easily. However skills is where the difference between a good tank and a bad tank comes into play.

 

Lets face it most new comers aren't going to make it into Operations ( 55+ ) so the gear isn't as crucial.

 

My tips for any new comer vanguard would be:

 

1. Make dps allow you to pull, if they don't vote kick the ones that are trying to rush you. If vote kick fails then leave the group yourself, they will be waiting longer to find a replacement than you will.

 

2. Know your mobs. Pay attention to which mobs are melee, and which are not. Typically the melee mobs will run to you, the ranged mobs will not. Being a vanguard you have a lot of options on pulls. Typically you should charged a ranged unit, then grapple the next. Then hit an aoe ability to hold agro. Simple.

 

3. Don't be afraid to ask for a CC on any mob.

 

4. Don't be afraid to mark targets.

 

5. Always target the silver+ mobs first. The normal mobs can kill your healer and dps, but they are very easily disposed of by the dps.

 

6. Use line of site to your advantage. This alone will help you hold agro on large groups. By doing this you will ensure your aoe hits all targets.

 

7. Let the group know what your intentions are.

 

8. Take critics advise, sometimes it may do more harm than good, but you won't know until you try.

 

9. Be confident, if you act skittish most of the player base will blame you for all the mistakes, down to your gear. When honestly it may not have been your fault.

 

10. Use key bindings. There will be a lot of people on these forums telling you how pro they are at clicking, but as a tank you have to be completely aware of your surroundings at all times. The typical "clicker" wastes about .5 seconds bringing the mouse from point A to point B then clicking it. Rinse and repeat. During this .5 seconds they aren't paying attention to their surroundings. My own advise is only click your cool downs, it really stinks when you miskey a cool down.

 

( SITUATIONAL )

 

11. If you are looking to tank, join a guild let them know you are looking for an offtank position. This will allow you to learn from their main tank, and give you some experience so you too one day can be a main tank.

 

12. Don't be afraid to ask questions about encounters in Operations.

 

13. Lastly as with any class, know your fights. Look them up on the internet, while all guilds do fights differently you don't want to go into a fight blind folded. You want to be able to go into a fight knowing the mechanics, so when the guild says tanks here, dps here, you have a general idea of what they are talking about.

 

In closing, tanking in this game is far easier than any other MMO I have ever played. Don't be scared to die, and don't be hard on yourself when it happens, simply think about what you could have don't differently I.E. Learn from your mistakes.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Thuggie

[Kitru]

3. I am not 100% sure but in other games taunts have diminishing returns, meaning eventually your target is going to become immune to your taunts, when the tank swap mechanic happens you are SoL. Good job you over achiever.

 

That's not even remotely close to true. If anything, NPCs become *weaker* to taunts in TOR because, as the fight progresses, there is a larger and larger pool of threat (there is no threat degeneration like in some games) that makes the threat generation from taunt progressively larger, since taunt is percentage based. Taunts can't even miss NPCs (I'm relatively confident that they can't even miss players because, iirc, the devs added the autohit tag to the ability rather than simply increasing the default accuracy in 2.0 when F/T attacks could actually miss).

 

You also overestimate the importance of keeping your taunt in reserve. There are *loads* of fights where it's better to use your taunt on CD than let it set there and languish, from a threat generation perspective, especially at the start of the fight when threat actually matters. Unless there is a threat drop you have to worry about (i.e. a situation where you *have* to have you), it's perfectly fine to use your taunt on CD for the first minute or so. After that minute, however, it just becomes redundant because you've already got enough threat that it's practically impossible for someone to pull off of you, even if you stop attacking. Even on add spawns, unless you're just a bad tank, you should be picking them up immediately, before the DPS even have a chance to get aggro on them.

 

Threat was *designed* to be a ridiculously easy aspect of the game and the primary reason that it *is* so easy is Taunt, which only has a 15 sec CD (WoW, which uses a similar threat model, had it on a 1 min CD, last I played), has a benefit even when it use it while a target is already attacking you, and provides a *massive* threat cushion when you do use it (unless you're standing *inside* the target's model, you get set to 130% of current target's threat; WoW only set you to 110%). Unless there is a specific mechanic present that requires you to use your taunt (of which most fights have none), there is no reason *not* to use Taunt on CD, beyond it simply being considered bad form and encouraging bad play.

[Thuggie]

That's not even remotely close to true. If anything, NPCs become *weaker* to taunts in TOR because, as the fight progresses, there is a larger and larger pool of threat (there is no threat degeneration like in some games) that makes the threat generation from taunt progressively larger, since taunt is percentage based. Taunts can't even miss NPCs (I'm relatively confident that they can't even miss players because, iirc, the devs added the autohit tag to the ability rather than simply increasing the default accuracy in 2.0 when F/T attacks could actually miss).

 

You also overestimate the importance of keeping your taunt in reserve. There are *loads* of fights where it's better to use your taunt on CD than let it set there and languish, from a threat generation perspective, especially at the start of the fight when threat actually matters. Unless there is a threat drop you have to worry about (i.e. a situation where you *have* to have you), it's perfectly fine to use your taunt on CD for the first minute or so. After that minute, however, it just becomes redundant because you've already got enough threat that it's practically impossible for someone to pull off of you, even if you stop attacking. Even on add spawns, unless you're just a bad tank, you should be picking them up immediately, before the DPS even have a chance to get aggro on them.

 

Threat was *designed* to be a ridiculously easy aspect of the game and the primary reason that it *is* so easy is Taunt, which only has a 15 sec CD (WoW, which uses a similar threat model, had it on a 1 min CD, last I played), has a benefit even when it use it while a target is already attacking you, and provides a *massive* threat cushion when you do use it (unless you're standing *inside* the target's model, you get set to 130% of current target's threat; WoW only set you to 110%). Unless there is a specific mechanic present that requires you to use your taunt (of which most fights have none), there is no reason *not* to use Taunt on CD, beyond it simply being considered bad form and encouraging bad play.

 

Your logic is simply flawed.

 

It is a bad idea to use taunt on cool down. Period, it doesn't get "weaker" as time progresses. Pretty much what you are saying is you can not hold agro without doing so, which is false. Its also like I said a waste of a global cool down. There is no point in using it if you are sustaining enough threat without it.

 

As far as your statement about wow you are 100% wrong. The way taunt works in most every other game is like this I will give you an example. You can argue with me but you are still wrong.

 

DPS A threat = 100

TANK A threat =50

 

In this scenario the DPS would be tanking.

 

TANK A hits taunt putting his threat at 101

 

Now the tank would be tanking. In all games there is a yellow zone and a red zone ( for lack of better words ) players in the yellow zone are about to take threat, while players in the red zone are the tanks or the people passing the tanks.

 

Also in wow there is diminishing returns on taunt, something like 4 taunts back to back and the mob will become immune to taunts.

 

Now I am also going to call you wrong on the taunt cool down in wow though its been some time since I have played, but just so you know it is an 8 second cool down.

 

So before you began to argue or give anyone advice I think you should check your facts. Anyone who used taunt on a cooldown bases is a bad tank because it is there only to FORCE the target to attack you by putting you as the targets #1 hate position.

 

If what you posted before actually worked you wouldn't need other abilities, you could just taunt on cool down to have enough threat to hold the mob.

 

I just proved you wrong in more than one instance, so you sir are encouraging bad play. Taunt on cool down is the most moronic statement I have ever heard in any game, even going back as far as eq1. Will it hurt you doing so? Prolly not except in the examples that I listed above, but its not helping you.

 

Also lastly I would like to know where you got your "threat from taunt" numbers.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Thuggie

[Kuciwalker]

Wow, you could not be more wrong about how taunts in SWTOR work. For instance, they aren't on the GCD... Edited August 13, 2013 by Kuciwalker

[Kitru]

So before you began to argue or give anyone advice I think you should check your facts. Anyone who used taunt on a cooldown bases is a bad tank because it is there only to FORCE the target to attack you by putting you as the targets #1 hate position.

 

I recommend you check your facts first. It's a *very* well known fact about how Taunt works in TOR. You're operating under assumptions assumed by other games, which you really shouldn't do since it ignores the fact that not every game is exactly the same, especially concerning the specific mechanisms.

 

Also, you've got no idea how aggro swapping works in TOR either. You don't get aggro as soon as you're above the current target's threat. A *vast* majority of the time, it requires 130% of the current target's threat to pull aggro; the only time it takes less than that (110%, specifically) is when you're standing within 4m of the center of the target's model (not the edge of the target's model, where attack range is determined from, but the center of the model, which is why, even if you're in melee range for attacking, you're almost always *still* considered to be outside of it for threat purposes).

 

If what you posted before actually worked you wouldn't need other abilities, you could just taunt on cool down to have enough threat to hold the mob.

 

You actually can. After about the first 30 second of a fight, when a sufficiently large amount of threat has been generated, you can simply spam taunt and never lose threat ever again. After the 4th taunt, taunt will actually have eclipsed the entirety of your normal threat generation.

 

I just proved you wrong in more than one instance, so you sir are encouraging bad play.

 

If you actually *read* what I was saying, I wasn't encouraging taunt fluffing in any way, shape, or form. I specifically pointed out that it is considered bad form as well as encouraging bad play on the part of the tank that does said taunt fluffing. What I was doing was point out how it is, from a mechanical standpoint, the way to generate the most threat possible. Of course, since threat is such an easy thing in TOR, it's largely pointless to do it anyways. You *can* taunt spam all you want. It won't hurt anything in the least.

 

The only thing you ended up proving is that you have *no* idea how Taunt *or* threat work in TOR. Seriously, before you try to correct someone, research the game you're playing rather than just assuming it works like one of the other games you've played in the past, all of which have a unique threat/taunt construct. Hell, you even admitted that you're basing most of what you're talking about on conjecture drawn from other games, which should be a pretty obvious sign that you *don't* know what you're talking about because you're just guessing.

 

Also lastly I would like to know where you got your "threat from taunt" numbers.

 

Combat logs. Seriously, it's not that hard. Of course, it also helps that the devs themselves explained it explicitly over a year and a half ago, before they even implemented player combat logs.

 

I find it hilarious that you're doubting my information when everything you're using has no actual basis in the game we're actually discussing.

[Thuggie]

You are the one that brought wow up and tried to use it as an example. I believe you even went as far as to compare it to this game, and by the way the 130% marker would also be the "yellow zone" I was speaking of.

 

The point on my post was simple, you don't need to taunt on cool down and it is a bad practice, with there being situations where it might be needed.

[Justcae]

Without bothering with the whole quote thing and correcting things piece by piece lets just do a list shall we?

 

1. Taunt is an "Active" skill. It functions off the GCD. You can find a list of your active skills by opening your ability panel. Active skills can never miss/resist. They simply happen. Other active skills include your cooldowns.

 

2. Taunt boosting is absolutely required in the start of a fight w/ competent DPS. Especially on fights where enrage timers are tight (see: NiM Ops). Learning how to properly taunt boost means the difference between being proficient tank, and not.

 

3. Yes, in the event that the fight calls for a taunt swap, adds spawning, blah blah blah. That respective taunt should be held in reserve for that situation. ie) T&Z/FB&SC tank swap (single target) or Snipers spawning during Thrasher (AoE). This comes from knowing the fight, something that every tank would benefit from knowing in advance.

 

4. If the fight does not have places where those taunts are needed or are needed less than the cooldown of the skill you can freely use the skill to increase your threat, even if not needed simply because it's free.

 

5. I wish people would stop giving bad advice about how taunts function in this game, because they tanked in X game. There is so much misinformation to people that genuinely want to know.

 

Thank you, have a nice day.

 

Edit) Because I never explicitly said, and I don't want any confusion, how Kitru laid out Taunting, is how it works in this game. Take the top threat (which may be you) multiply that threat by 1.3 (unless you are less than 4m from the center of the object in which case 1.1) and bam, that's your new threat. Taunting is the single greatest threat building action in this game.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Justcae

[Mikroswitch]

The point on my post was simple, you don't need to taunt on cool down and it is a bad practice, with there being situations where it might be needed.

 

Telling people not to use an ability when it only makes your life easier and less likely to cause problems is serious bad practice.

 

If you know there isn't any mechanic that needs a taunt ie transition phase where boss wipes threat or you need to tank swap due to a debuff there is no reason NOT to use your taunts.

 

On bosses where the timer for enrage vrs operations DPS are sooooo closely matched you need to time all your taunts at the start so the boss doesn't go wandering or one shotting a crit happy DPS'er.

 

The rotation I usually use on bosses and its rare as rocking horse s**t that a DPS'er can take initial threat from me and they in turn love me for it.

Battle Focus >> Mortar volley >> Storm (This is the Cue in my guild is to start DPS soon as they see me jump) >> Explosive Surge >> Sonic Round (Start mental counting) >> Explosive Surge >> Stockstrike >> High Impact Bolt >> Pulse Cannon >> Neural Jolt

 

Reasons for this rotation is that BF will boost my initial DPS and in turn threat generation, a quick mortar volley whilst I or the operation leader is doing the countdown to pull and I storm in which is the point most of the DPS are starting up. Then I will hit 1x ES and then Sonic the boss, I do this because if I double surge before sonic some of our DPS can and have ripped treat from me even if they are guarded but on sonic I know for the next 6 seconds no matter how crit happy my DPS are or how much threat they generate I know the boss will stick to me like glue and do a five count (a bit risky due to lag chancing a 6 count) whilst going thro the rest of my staring rotation. Once I hit my NJ the boss will still be on me and even if in those first 5 seconds the DPS do indeed over take me on threat I know once that NJ hits I will be 130% ahead.

Then I just go thro my usual rotation and unless there is a reason not to I will use Neural on CD and if there isn't any mobs wandering by I will weave in Sonic Round too.

 

I am sure there are people now going **** what a crazed rotation or what a nub but it works for me and unless I have forgot to guard a DPS that Boss isn't going anywhere I don't want it too!!

 

To sum this wall of text to this ..."Know your Fights, Know your abilities and don't be afraid of using them"

Edited August 14, 2013 by Mikroswitch

[Thuggie]

You guys can do what you want, but if you have to use taunt to keep threat you are bad.

 

Taunt is an ability in all games, every single mmo in the world has a taunt button. That doesn't mean it should be used on cool down. And if you are going to argue with that then you would never make it in any other MMO.

 

They give you tools which allow you to hold threat, taunt is for when you lose threat for whatever reason, and to add more mechanics to bosses.

 

And just so you know I have been raiding nightmare instances, just as I have been playing in top world guilds from each game I go to, I don't need to defend myself to the likes of any of you, and refuse to continue doing so.

 

You want to use taunt on cool down, go right ahead its your monthly payment you can do whatever you want, however a good tank does not, it is that simple.

[xxforcardassia]

They give you tools which allow you to hold threat, taunt is for when you lose threat for whatever reason, and to add more mechanics to bosses.

 

Can't imagine this really happening (unless the tank misses an aggro wipe moment) if they're using taunts wisely in their rotations... just sayin'.

 

As others have already pointed out, you need to be fact checking before spewing bad advice. Or at least give a disclaimer about it being based on unchecked assumptions and probably should be ignored. Saves people wasting time reading walls of text

 

 

Also on topic, based on personal experience, gear does make a difference. Not always a big one, but for VG tanks with kind of crappy gear trying to tank... you're going to need constant babysitting from the healer. Again, this comes from personal experience from either emergency tank/off-tanking moments and when I started up the tanking side of my VG. Take away: be kind to your healer, gear up!

[Justcae]

You guys can do what you want, but if you have to use taunt to keep threat you are bad.

 

Taunt is an ability in all games, every single mmo in the world has a taunt button. That doesn't mean it should be used on cool down. And if you are going to argue with that then you would never make it in any other MMO.

 

 

Other games taunts function differently, and based on their mechanics, used them accordingly. Taunt boosting in this one is a function of the taunt in this game. Arguing that a person would not be good in X game because they are using a mechanic in this game is foolish and just plain wrong.

 

They give you tools which allow you to hold threat, taunt is for when you lose threat for whatever reason, and to add more mechanics to bosses.

 

Proper use of taunt in this game will allow you to never lose aggro even to skilled DPS. If you are losing aggro in SWTOR you are doing something wrong. Maybe you'll have better luck in one of those other games that hopefully you understand better.

 

And just so you know I have been raiding nightmare instances, just as I have been playing in top world guilds from each game I go to, I don't need to defend myself to the likes of any of you, and refuse to continue doing so.

 

Good for you. Wish you all the success you can possibly have in this game. Let me know when you get to Karagga. I hear he's tricky at 55. The only thing I know about your qualifications of tanking are from how you've represented yourself in this thread. What I can tell from that is that in all the time that you've played this game (However long that is) you've never understood how the taunt actually functioned, and did not know that it operated off the global cooldown. I cannot and will not assume anything further about how you play or how good of a player you are. The fact that you have clearly misunderstood mechanics, and then attacked others whom have tried to help others speaks volumes.

 

You want to use taunt on cool down, go right ahead its your monthly payment you can do whatever you want, however a good tank does not, it is that simple.

 

Using anything "on cooldown" for no reason does not make anyone particularly good at anything (other than achieving maximum uptime on said ability). Understanding mechanics of both class, and encounter make people good tanks. I'm glad we could clear up some of your own misinformation in this circumstance.

 

Best wishes, and good raiding.

[Nursejenna]

You want to use taunt on cool down, go right ahead its your monthly payment you can do whatever you want, however a good tank does not, it is that simple.

 

A good tank would do his best not to listen to this paragon of wit and intelligence.

and LOL - what have you tanked NiM? I'd give you a pass for just being new to tanking in this game but even with that - the taunt mechanic is pretty basic to understand. Good Luck to you doing ACTUAL difficult NiM content with a good DPS team. *two thumbs up*.

[Thorriin]

and LOL - what have you tanked NiM?

 

I hear that NiM EC is pretty hard, even at 55.