Second Relic Choice

[Talyndor]

I have been running with one augmented dread guard relic, as well as my augmented matrix cube. For a long time, the large cunning bonus on the matrix cube (especially when augmented) was considered a good use of our second relic slot.

I was wondering if this remains the case?

What are people running with in terms of BOTH relics? My dread guard relic is the boundless ages one (if I recall correctly--anyways it is the one with a power bonus when activated).

I am trying to figure out if I should replace my augmented matrix relic.

 

Side note: I only PvE...so suggesting a PvP relic for me is not practical (!).

[NoTomorrow]

Consider using a damage proc relic. You will be mostly focused on a single target boss damage in PvE, so you that relic is pretty decent. Which damage type however? I cannot say. Some go for energy, others go for Internal.

 

Please note, that PvP Power relics are good because they apply power to all your attacks. IF you are using AoE to hit multiple mobs, then power will affect every single mob while a damage proc relic will only hit one of them.

[Furiel]

Consider using a damage proc relic. You will be mostly focused on a single target boss damage in PvE, so you that relic is pretty decent. Which damage type however? I cannot say. Some go for energy, others go for Internal.

 

Please note, that PvP Power relics are good because they apply power to all your attacks. IF you are using AoE to hit multiple mobs, then power will affect every single mob while a damage proc relic will only hit one of them.

 

This. And you want the internal damage proc relic because the internal one is effected by Tech crit as opposed to the energy and elemental ones that go off force crit.

 

Also even though the energy and kinetic proc relics show a higher base damage per proc, you still want the internal because that bypasses armor while energy and kinetic do not and gunslingers do not have sufficient armor penetration to offset that damage mitigation.

[Talyndor]

I am inferring from the two responses above that the matrix relic as a second choice is now considered passe?

[Centures]

Wont the internal Proc share the same proc as Vital Shot?

Therefore it wont proc?

[AngelFluttershy]

Wont the internal Proc share the same proc as Vital Shot?

Therefore it wont proc?

 

Both still proc. VS can actually proc the relic as any damage gives the relic an opportunity to proc.

 

I use the Dread Guard of Boundless Ages (Power buff) and the Internal Damage proccing relic. They're currently BiS for PvE Smugglers. Don't bother with the passive bonuses, especially the matrix cube, as the power buff and proc surpass that of any passive relic. Just make sure to keep the power relic on CD unless you're saving it for burst phases to get its full benefit.

 

As a Tech user, as stated above, you want to use the Internal or Kinetic relic as they will benefit from your stats. Choose the Internal as it will do more damage than the Kinetic because of the armor bypass. Kinetic proc is only BiS for Gunnery Commandos due to Grav Round and their passive armor pen from their ammo cell.

Edited December 30, 2012 by AngelFluttershy

[Furiel]

Both still proc. VS can actually proc the relic as any damage gives the relic an opportunity to proc.

 

I use the Dread Guard of Boundless Ages (Power buff) and the Internal Damage proccing relic. They're currently BiS for PvE Smugglers. Don't bother with the passive bonuses, especially the matrix cube, as the power buff and proc surpass that of any passive relic. Just make sure to keep the power relic on CD unless you're saving it for burst phases to get its full benefit.

 

As a Tech user, as stated above, you want to use the Internal or Kinetic relic as they will benefit from your stats. Choose the Internal as it will do more damage than the Kinetic because of the armor bypass. Kinetic proc is only BiS for Gunnery Commandos due to Grav Round and their passive armor pen from their ammo cell.

 

Kinetic is also BiS for Scrapper Scoundrels due to the armor pen buff granted with Flechette Round. So those 2 specs are Kinetic, every other tech using class is Internal.

[deeceed]

I have been agonizing over the two BiS relics for my pve gunslinger. By making artful use of the commendations 2-hr refund policy, I have been test-driving the proc and power Dreadguard relics in combination with my War Hero power relic and Matrix Cube cunning relic.

 

After two weeks of employing Advanced Combat Tracker parser and various relics in TFB hard mode, EC hard mode, many flashpoints and weekly raids and quests, and 4 hours on the boss training dummy, I believe that the following 2 relics gave me the best dps boost for my favorite specs of Saboteur, Dirty Fighting, and Sab/DF hybrid:

 

1) War Hero / Elite War Hero pvp power relic (~60 dps increase)

2) Dreadguard Boundless Ages active power relic. (~50 dps increase)

 

My results for the other relics are as follows:

3) Matrix Cube M7-R3 ~45 dps increase

4) Dreadguard Dark Radiance relic ~38 dps increase

5) Other Dreadguard relics ~35 dps increase

 

 

Accordingly, I am now running the War Hero and DG Boundless Ages relics, both augmented for cunning.

 

I hope this helps you to make your relic choices.

 

________________

 

p.s. my gunslinger self-buffed stats are:

Cunning: 2074

Accuracy: 100.01%

Crit: 36.38%

Crit Mult: 77.42%

Bonus Damage: 997.6

 

My gear is full Black Hole with 63 armorings and Campaign pieces mixed in.

[Synavix]

The only problem I see with this is that you're basing your DPS increase off of parses and not actual math, and the DPS differences are so small that even on a target dummy they are within range of RNG/user error, even on identical rotations.

 

While certain relics ARE tied to user preference (such as how often/good you are at using on-use relics, or how good your Ops group is, etc), static damage/power relics come down to straight math, which has been done numerous times.

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-953-post-24329.html#pid24329 is a good read.

[deeceed]

The only problem I see with this is that you're basing your DPS increase off of parses and not actual math,

 

Translated: 'you're basing your DPS increase on actual data instead of theoretical forecasts'

[Synavix]

Translated: 'you're basing your DPS increase on actual data instead of theoretical forecasts'

 

Actually, no. If your statement had been simply that the PvP power relics were situationally better -- or even just better for you -- than the on-use or another variant, then that'd be true.

 

My point is that your post doesn't actually give very good information regarding your "testing", and your results are pretty significantly different than what math (and any number of sources I could find) says is true in relation to static benefit relics (in this case: the EWH power relic, Dark Radiance, and Matrix Cube).

 

I'm not familiar with the site you linked that you were basing your parses off of, but your number seem incorrect. I'm not trying to call you out as being wrong, just that I'd like to know how you reached your projected DPS increases per relic. Call me skeptical, but it would be hard to convince me that other sources that I trust are vastly wrong on this subject. Relics that are based on a set amount of power or damage are, quite frankly, very predictable and exactly what math theorycraft is good for. It has little to nothing to do with user error or "how good" you are....it's just a flat benefit. Unless the game is just programmed incorrectly (which would require more testing and more detail as to how the numbers were obtained), then I'm simply confused.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Synavix

[deeceed]

Synavix:

 

No need to be snooty. The tone of your post suggests that you would prefer to soapbox instead of actually reading my original post.

 

Why not just ask 'tell us more about how you arrived at those results'? Or better yet: go install a free copy of advancedombattracker.com and see the data parses for yourself on your own toons.

[Synavix]

I read your post multiple times. I even skimmed over that parse site briefly, but unless I find that it can do something that other parsers have so far been unable to do, I have no desire to try it and risk potential problems that other parsers and 3rd party programs have been known to cause with this game.

 

I've done my own dummy parses, my own math, and plenty of research. I also did ask, "just that I'd like to know how you reached your projected DPS increases per relic.", and didn't receive an answer from you. As I stated in my first post, if you're just going off differences in DPS from parses, then low double-digit discrepancies are well within the margin of error for any two live combat parses.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Synavix

[deeceed]

To the original poster, Talyndor:

 

 

The above bickering notwithstanding, did you get any helpful information to answer your question about relics? Have you tried testing them for yourself and seeing what works for your playstyle and talent choices?

 

Let us know what has worked for you and your relic decision.

[Talyndor]

Lol. It has been amusing seeing where the direction this thread went, but, yes, I got my answer. I have one DG Boundless Ages relic, and I will be getting the DG Internal Damage one for my second one and use that to replace my matrix relic.

Thanks to all of you for your input!