Mercathode Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Have been tinkering with a Rage Marauder. Decided to go from one to another 31k plus HP Droids in the lower section of the Black Hole, timing how long it takes to kill one. With a certain progression it takes about 25-27 seconds. Basically 3 smashes with Shockwave and fillers. Just for giggles I tried it with just the melee abilities....no force crits or force damage ,and it took FOREVER. As was expected but with my crit at 30.4% I would get a yellow with melee only every 10 or so hits....thats 10%. Was it just bad luck? I tried it about 10 times. Seems the offhand miss was about 50/50 which seems normal as accuracy offhand is 68%. Force Scream always crits, Smash/Shockwave always crits, Pommel Strike always crits, Savage Kick always Crits. My specific question is if I got rid of all or most of crit, would it affect the above that always crit (excluding Shockwave/smash which i know will always be an auto crit) AND put it into Power/Strength/Accuracy etc. Since Surge is tied to crit. it would be substituted too. I guess I could just try it and test but it could get expensive. Have been increasing Accuracy lately and I noticed that the bad guys pay a little more attention to me but stuff goes down a little quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Critical over about 20-25% is really a waste because smash and force scream both auto critical. Keep surge...that boosts your critical damage... Edited December 21, 2012 by planet_J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Force Scream isn't auto-crit at all for Rage. The answer is simple really: EVERYONE should have at least 125-150 crit rating. That 1st bit of crit is a huge return on investment. Smash is 30% of your PvE damage, so 70% of your damage benefits from at least some crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Have been tinkering with a Rage Marauder. Decided to go from one to another 31k plus HP Droids in the lower section of the Black Hole, timing how long it takes to kill one. With a certain progression it takes about 25-27 seconds. Basically 3 smashes with Shockwave and fillers. Just for giggles I tried it with just the melee abilities....no force crits or force damage ,and it took FOREVER. As was expected but with my crit at 30.4% I would get a yellow with melee only every 10 or so hits....thats 10%. Was it just bad luck? I tried it about 10 times. Seems the offhand miss was about 50/50 which seems normal as accuracy offhand is 68%. Force Scream always crits, Smash/Shockwave always crits, Pommel Strike always crits, Savage Kick always Crits. My specific question is if I got rid of all or most of crit, would it affect the above that always crit (excluding Shockwave/smash which i know will always be an auto crit) AND put it into Power/Strength/Accuracy etc. Since Surge is tied to crit. it would be substituted too. I guess I could just try it and test but it could get expensive. Have been increasing Accuracy lately and I noticed that the bad guys pay a little more attention to me but stuff goes down a little quicker. First, Force scream is not auto crit, and it crits very rarely because it has no +crit modifiers from talents. While it DOES benefit from 30% increased crit damage due to talents, it only rarely crits, making it a poor dps move overall, and it has a higher rage cost on average than Vicious Slash, assuming that you take the Enraged Slash talent in the annihilation tree, plus vicious slash has a 15% higher crit chance due to talents. The only time I really use Force Scream is if I cannot close the gap to my next target and I have a spare GCD. Second, you can't get rid of surge on your gear, unless you stack something stupid like accuracy. Your choices for mods are power or crit, so if you sub out crit, you get power. Your choices for enhancements are crit/surge, crit/acc, power/surge, power/acc. Ideally you should get at least 95% accuracy (this means you will have 105% on all attacks except your basic attack, Assault, which you shouldn't have to use if you play rage properly), then stack power and strength. This means that the ONLY viable enhancement that you can stack is power/surge. You don't want to get rid of surge, because your biggest hitting ability is an auto crit in Rage (smash), and everything else that you should be spamming (vicious slash / vicious throw) gets an increased 15% chance to crit from talents. Some people have said that a small amount of crit is needed, even for rage. Personally I run with minimum crit and max power. Buffed I have about 22% crit. Even with this low crit chance, all of my spammable abilities have 37% chance to crit, which is not bad, and my biggest hitter of course is an auto crit. The benefit of this high power/surge build is that you have extremely high burst damage in warzones. I would never use Rage in a single target PvE encounter, as annihilation and carnage are still much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Force Scream isn't auto-crit at all for Rage. The answer is simple really: EVERYONE should have at least 125-150 crit rating. That 1st bit of crit is a huge return on investment. Smash is 30% of your PvE damage, so 70% of your damage benefits from at least some crit. The problem with this assumption is this: 70% of your damage at most is getting a ~75% damage boost on crits. Power affects EVERYTHING with no DR. Now having said that, we have done the math in previous threads, and the difference between swapping some power for crit and going full power is very small, but it does favor power slightly in Rage simply because power affects everything, while crit only affects, as you said around 70% of your damage. The other added benefit of a high power build is the burst damage in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 The problem with this assumption is this: 70% of your damage at most is getting a ~75% damage boost on crits. Power affects EVERYTHING with no DR. Now having said that, we have done the math in previous threads, and the difference between swapping some power for crit and going full power is very small, but it does favor power slightly in Rage simply because power affects everything, while crit only affects, as you said around 70% of your damage. The other added benefit of a high power build is the burst damage in pvp. You're only talking about PVP. I agree there because the length of encounters is such that most of the time you'll be smashing and moving on shortly thereafter to smash again. He was asking about PvE, and as I've said there, the return on 125-150 crit is simply too good to pass up. The math that I personally did was for Carnage and Annihilation only, although I suspect it would fit in for Rage also. That math was based on 164 crit vs. 328 crit. The actual crit % gain from 164-328 is LESS then the gain from 0-125 or 0-150. Getting to that crit rating will cost you at most 36 bonus damage for a gain of around 6% crit chance. 36 bonus damage is not better than 6% crit chance, no way, no how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercathode Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 Force Scream isn't auto-crit at all for Rage. The answer is simple really: EVERYONE should have at least 125-150 crit rating. That 1st bit of crit is a huge return on investment. Smash is 30% of your PvE damage, so 70% of your damage benefits from at least some crit. Crit Damage is when the damage appears in yellow? Whenever I use Force Scream it is yellow damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Crit Damage is when the damage appears in yellow? Whenever I use Force Scream it is yellow damage. Yellow is Force dmg. Crits have a larger font than the non crit numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBrown Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 The best way to know is to run a few parses on a dummy. Swap out mods / enhancements and see what yields the most damage for "your" playstyle. I play Carnage and was surprised to find that going from 102.7% accuracy and 78.53% surge to 100.93% accuracy and 79.26% surge yielded a 50 DPS increase. After 4 parse to minimize player error (7-8 mins each) the 50 dps gap still held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlosBC Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yellow is Force dmg. Crits have a larger font than the non crit numbers. This is the issue here for the OP. Melee damage will always be white, crits with bigger numbers. Force damage the same, but yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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