WARNING!! - Do not run with the imp guild "resurection"

[Carlenux]

TBH this thread is good, as give people a heads up when raiding with them (not saying what he says is true) since we dont rly know if the guy is trolling or if its true, people just have to be aware, i am the guild leader of <HATRED> and ive had same problems with my guildies having that attitude when leading/puging, which rly annoy me... heres the thing:

 

1) if u pugging 1 person for guild run, tell him (mats going to the guild) if he just going for mats, he wont go, dont just do as u want, since the guy is wasting his time for his mats/gear helping you.

 

2) do not Tag ppl as low dps/heals without parsing with them, ive been tagged as <low dps> in hm tfb runs ive done to help other guilds (all my 3 chars full BiS Dread guard) doing 1800 dps in my parse in w/e fight, and yet ppl dont take their time to either parse with <pugs> or inspect their gear, and even me have been kicked for low dps just for doing Rage marauder (40 dps less than carnage tested, Warstalker marauder... or using Operative dps, also a char that alredy cleared NiM EC) bcause ppl is stupid and follow what other ppl say.

 

3) if you doing a guild run with pugs, either tell them which gear is saved for a guildie, what u doing with mats, or if you going to replace him further in the ops, since ppl dont want to waste their time in stuff they dont need, if you going to bring in a pug just whisper him telling him the guy who should have spot logged in, and he need to leave spot, if u have an alt, offer him help with your alt to finish another run later, thats what i do... Also if you didnt tell him what <items,cars,gear> were saved for guild, once the thing drops, u just cant ignore the person to roll, if the super mount drops or the gear u need, the pug have to be able to roll, since he was part of the kill, he has the same rights as you do, you cant just be an *** hole or u will end up being a nobody guild everyone hates.

 

4) if you pugging someone, let the guy give his opinion + positive feedbacks in the raid or strats, becaues regardless of his gear or w/e, u dont know if his main or w/e, his brother, his other account w/e, might be in a better guild or he might just know a better strat that will end up helping your own guild, stop being stubborn *** when u have cleared hm tfb 5 times u think u know it all, when ppl is just trying to help you.

 

Thats the basic tips i can give, to both Pugs, and guilds if they want to pug, and be a good guild for the community, thats how i run mine, and it goes very good, so... instead of complaining or taking sides in the conversation, just giving community, solutions to fix this kind of problems.

[kraykind]

Carl you hit the nail right on the head I totally agree with all of this

[agape_]

PvP > PVE in pvp its obvious who is pulling their weight and who is not

[GalaxyStrong]

Hello Everyone I am Member of the guild Resurection this guy is a total fraud. First and for-most i want to say that he is not telling the truth he did receive a rakata helmet. All loot was done at random if know one need it . the stabs were taken for the guild because the op had 7 guild members and was a guild run. he was pulling minimum dps for when we got to the 3rd boss we failed phase 1 repeatedly because of his lack of dps. when we got to the tfb a guild member inquired on coming so we invited him because he knew what he was doing and was geared. Creep refuse to come in mumble as we waited for him. Im not gonna take up any more of your time and give this troll the satiation of feeling he got to me. best of luck

 

Your Guilds credibility is OFFICIALLY F*U*C*K*E*D and I'm Glad. Their nothing worse than a bunch *********'s banding together to create a guild in order to **** everybody they meet. There's a very good chance the OP is totally telling the truth due the the fact that several people have now come forward in this thread and confirmed this Guild has screwed them over before this incident even happened.

Edited December 21, 2012 by GalaxyStrong

[DarthBloodloss]

All loot was done at random if know one need it

 

Like the exotech cunning/absorb gloves? Or maybe some exotech strength/alacrity boots?

 

Well, at least you get to roll on all the unwanted trash!

[kraykind]

Like the exotech cunning/absorb gloves? Or maybe some exotech strength/alacrity boots?

 

Well, at least you get to roll on all the unwanted trash!

 

Not even those XD

[dscount]

TBH this thread is good, as give people a heads up when raiding with them (not saying what he says is true).

 

I totally agree with Carlenux on this one. I'd also add if your guild follows a set in stone rule that needs to be clearly stated at the start of the RAID. (Like rolling a "69" is instant loot winner)

 

COMMUNICATION is needed in advance. When we PUG a spot on a raid I always take the time to explain we collect all the materials so we can hopefully give everyone a single Stabilizer at the end plus the top xx rolls for the matrix cubes. If the team ends earlier we distribute what's available with a single roll (Top xx get Stabilizers, next 2-3 get Matrix). If you plan on keeping all the materials, then you really need to make sure your "GUEST" gets something out of the OP so it's worth the time investment to help your guild complete the OP.

 

Meanwhile, I hate to say it, but I've got the aforementioned guild on my "watching closely" list as I pug some of my ALTs and have seen them in General seeking people. To all those PUG's out there.. Keep/reset your combat logs and save them off when you do these raids. (Great to pop up on Torparse and go "really..." to those doubting you) Both DPS and Healing shows up.

[kraykind]

I totally agree with Carlenux on this one. I'd also add if your guild follows a set in stone rule that needs to be clearly stated at the start of the RAID. (Like rolling a "69" is instant loot winner)

 

Ditto. Honestly I can understand some people have special stuff they want to do as if it's a guild run, for example on a lot of runs in Apex most of the stabilizers etc go to the GB, so no one rolls its all good. If we have even one pug, though, we will let him roll on the mats just so he gets at least a chance of payment for helping us out, and we'll always make sure everyone gets something. As with other things as well, if we have a guildie we need to get geared that comes on, most of the time we won't ask a pug to leave, and we definitely wouldn't kick the pug either. Once in a while we may ask the pug if he can leave, but only if they are cool with it, and we promise to get on our alts and run some ops with them later. We end up making a lot of friends this way and everyone wins. That's how it should be done

[Derious]

Racist Pirate Ninjas great guild name

[ThroughVictory]

Well they didn't even get their guild name right.. I wouldn't expect much from them.

http://i.imgur.com/lnJVw.gif

[kraykind]

Racist Pirate Ninjas great guild name

It's a great fit for them XD

 

Well they didn't even get their guild name right.. I wouldn't expect much from them.

You got a point

[SithLady]

I totally agree with Carlenux on this one. I'd also add if your guild follows a set in stone rule that needs to be clearly stated at the start of the RAID. (Like rolling a "69" is instant loot winner)

 

COMMUNICATION is needed in advance. When we PUG a spot on a raid I always take the time to explain we collect all the materials so we can hopefully give everyone a single Stabilizer at the end plus the top xx rolls for the matrix cubes. If the team ends earlier we distribute what's available with a single roll (Top xx get Stabilizers, next 2-3 get Matrix). If you plan on keeping all the materials, then you really need to make sure your "GUEST" gets something out of the OP so it's worth the time investment to help your guild complete the OP.

 

Meanwhile, I hate to say it, but I've got the aforementioned guild on my "watching closely" list as I pug some of my ALTs and have seen them in General seeking people. To all those PUG's out there.. Keep/reset your combat logs and save them off when you do these raids. (Great to pop up on Torparse and go "really..." to those doubting you) Both DPS and Healing shows up.

 

TRM/Terra Rosa Militia runs with set rules when we pug folks for Ops, and we tell EVERYONE what we're doing. Yes, we use Master Looter. Yes, we save MATS for end Ops distribution(EC and TFB only). Yes, a 69 is an auto win. Yes, sometimes, we use golf rules, but it is declared before we even GET to the next chest. Yes, when we pug, stabs get handed out one to each member when we end the Op. I've even had it where I didn't take one cause it woul dhave left a Pug out of getting one possibley. It's easy: Teamwork. Respect. Maturity. Think about it!

[xNYROx]

TRM/Terra Rosa Militia runs with set rules when we pug folks for Ops, and we tell EVERYONE what we're doing. Yes, we use Master Looter. Yes, we save MATS for end Ops distribution(EC and TFB only). Yes, a 69 is an auto win. Yes, sometimes, we use golf rules, but it is declared before we even GET to the next chest. Yes, when we pug, stabs get handed out one to each member when we end the Op. I've even had it where I didn't take one cause it woul dhave left a Pug out of getting one possibley. It's easy: Teamwork. Respect. Maturity. Think about it!

 

Why would you PUG if you have a set of rules. If you are using PUGs then 1 of 2 things is going on here. 1, you do not have enough actives in your guild to pull it off successfully or 2 you plan on screwing people anyways.

 

So lets look at 1.

 

If you do not have enough actives you should definitly not have a strict guide to your runs that a majority of the server would not agree with. This hurts your overall community presence.

 

Now 2.

 

This explains itself and is seeming like the more likely one of the 2.

 

So which is it? Do you need help? Or are you just trying to get extra stuff for your guild and screw others?

 

Now there is another alternative which is usually not the case but some guilds pug to help the community and look at recruiting prospects.

Edited December 24, 2012 by xNYROx

[kraykind]

TRM/Terra Rosa Militia runs with set rules when we pug folks for Ops, and we tell EVERYONE what we're doing. Yes, we use Master Looter. Yes, we save MATS for end Ops distribution(EC and TFB only). Yes, a 69 is an auto win. Yes, sometimes, we use golf rules, but it is declared before we even GET to the next chest. Yes, when we pug, stabs get handed out one to each member when we end the Op. I've even had it where I didn't take one cause it woul dhave left a Pug out of getting one possibley. It's easy: Teamwork. Respect. Maturity. Think about it!

I totally agree, that's how a guild run with pugs should be done

 

Why would you PUG if you have a set of rules. If you are using PUGs then 1 of 2 things is going on here. 1, you do not have enough actives in your guild to pull it off successfully or 2 you plan on screwing people anyways.

 

So lets look at 1.

 

If you do not have enough actives you should definitly not have a strict guide to your runs that a majority of the server would not agree with. This hurts your overall community presence.

 

Now 2.

 

This explains itself and is seeming like the more likely one of the 2.

 

So which is it? Do you need help? Or are you just trying to get extra stuff for your guild and screw others?

 

Now there is another alternative which is usually not the case but some guilds pug to help the community and look at recruiting prospects.

 

Every guild pugs at one time or another, I've pugged with hatred, apex, and tons of other guilds that are hardcore progression guilds, I mean really, you've NEVER pugged with some of the top progression guilds? Pugging on a guild run is hardly ever one of those things, in fact it's almost never that way tbh.

#1 it's not a strict guide of rules, it's an agreement on terms from both sides of the group, you tell the person "hey we are doing it this way... are you cool with that?" if they aren't (which again rarely happens because most guilds keep it reasonable) then they can leave or most of the time express their opinion and if it's reasonable then the rules get changed up a little, anything else would be what hurts a guilds community presence.

#2 That's a broad generalization that most guilds in your opinion would be guilty of.

The third alternative which you list is actually one of the more likely ones that you listed, actually.

 

Not saying you're totally wrong though, sometimes those are the case, like what this thread is all about, so I do want to thank you for your post because it actually included some great info

Edited December 24, 2012 by kraykind

[xNYROx]

I totally agree, that's how a guild run with pugs should be done

 

 

 

Every guild pugs at one time or another, I've pugged with hatred, apex, and tons of other guilds that are hardcore progression guilds, I mean really, you've NEVER pugged with some of the top progression guilds? Pugging on a guild run is hardly ever one of those things, in fact it's almost never that way tbh.

#1 it's not a strict guide of rules, it's an agreement on terms from both sides of the group, you tell the person "hey we are doing it this way... are you cool with that?" if they aren't (which again rarely happens because most guilds keep it reasonable) then they can leave or most of the time express their opinion and if it's reasonable then the rules get changed up a little, anything else would be what hurts a guilds community presence.

#2 That's a broad generalization that most guilds in your opinion would be guilty of.

The third alternative which you list is actually one of the more likely ones that you listed, actually.

 

Not saying you're totally wrong though, sometimes those are the case, like what this thread is all about, so I do want to thank you for your post because it actually included some great info

 

It is almost entirely one of those three things what other excuse is there? Boredom? The alternative is an alternative that alot of guilds "say" they do it for but you can almost guarantee most guilds have one or two blimmishes or instances that they have messed over someone even if they claim it to be an "oops" or "accident". Unless they allow PUGs in their vent or VOIP you can never tell what the real intentions are.

 

If you have to PUG or are going to PUG there should be a generalized or common knowlege agreement on a set of rules serverwide. This is not unreasonable, matter of fact this is the first mmo i have heard of without a common law system like this. Running PUGs is just asking for drama more then 50% of them produce at least one rager per run. Why? Because of no common knowledge rules and the fact you are taking random people who may not get along, putting them together and hoping for a profitable run.

 

As for your example, Both Hatred and APEX have both had rage threads about them on hear and even they can admit to that. No matter how good a guild is or trustworthy they are...when you PUG eventually something will happen.

 

Personally when i Run a PUG with a guild if they will not let me in the VOIP then I will refuse the invite.

 

EDIT: this is not ment to put you down, I just think it is very important to note to new players that PUGing is definitly not the best form of progression or gearing and to warn them about ALL the possible issues involved with this style of OPs compared to joining a guild who does 100% guild runs.

Edited December 25, 2012 by xNYROx

[kraykind]

It is almost entirely one of those three things what other excuse is there? Boredom? The alternative is an alternative that alot of guilds "say" they do it for but you can almost guarantee most guilds have one or two blimmishes or instances that they have messed over someone even if they claim it to be an "oops" or "accident". Unless they allow PUGs in their vent or VOIP you can never tell what the real intentions are.

 

If you have to PUG or are going to PUG there should be a generalized or common knowlege agreement on a set of rules serverwide. This is not unreasonable, matter of fact this is the first mmo i have heard of without a common law system like this. Running PUGs is just asking for drama more then 50% of them produce at least one rager per run. Why? Because of no common knowledge rules and the fact you are taking random people who may not get along, putting them together and hoping for a profitable run.

 

As for your example, Both Hatred and APEX have both had rage threads about them on hear and even they can admit to that. No matter how good a guild is or trustworthy they are...when you PUG eventually something will happen.

 

Personally when i Run a PUG with a guild if they will not let me in the VOIP then I will refuse the invite.

 

EDIT: this is not ment to put you down, I just think it is very important to note to new players that PUGing is definitly not the best form of progression or gearing and to warn them about ALL the possible issues involved with this style of OPs compared to joining a guild who does 100% guild runs.

 

 

No I gotcha, I guess we have some different experiences on that aspect, but I agree with you 100% on the rest of that and you make a plethora of great points

[SithLady]

Why would you PUG if you have a set of rules. If you are using PUGs then 1 of 2 things is going on here. 1, you do not have enough actives in your guild to pull it off successfully or 2 you plan on screwing people anyways.

 

So lets look at 1.

 

If you do not have enough actives you should definitly not have a strict guide to your runs that a majority of the server would not agree with. This hurts your overall community presence.

 

Now 2.

 

This explains itself and is seeming like the more likely one of the 2.

 

So which is it? Do you need help? Or are you just trying to get extra stuff for your guild and screw others?

 

Now there is another alternative which is usually not the case but some guilds pug to help the community and look at recruiting prospects.

 

First off, if you read my post, there is no 'screwing others' everything is divided up unless it is a FULL guild run. Adn even then, we divide gear up based on who can use for their primary role, and then it's an off-spec/greed/companion roll off.

We have more than enough actives, but they are on at different times and we only have enough atm to make one and a half Ops groups. We do try to help the community and we do adjust our rules if folk we pug don't want to run by them. Easy.

[USCG_Davis]

I would very much so like to know where a rage thread on the forums directed at APEX pugging is. Our top group that has to pug occasionally (due to real life issues), pugs from Hatred, Select Few, and Haterade. What could we possibly gain from dicking over the top guilds on the server for a few mats? Absolutely nothing. Our other raids that have to pug due to a raider not being able to make a night, have the same rules. You gain nothing from dicking over the pug aside from a bad server rep. Everyone has the same shot at loot no matter what APEX raid you're in. The thread complaining about us was due to use using an "exploit" to beat NiM FB/SC. We removed it and posted a kill accepted by everyone. If this doesn't satisfy you; ill be more than happy to screen cap plenty of the applications to APEX talking about how they wanted to be part of a progression guild with great server rep and that they were referred to use by either less serious guilds that we've run with before or loved pugging with us.

 

As for Hatred, I don't know of any threads smash talking them in the forums but from my personal experience with them; they are all fantastic people, great raiders, and just great people to bull **** with and I don't know of anyone on this server who wouldn't leap at the chance to pug with them.

 

So before you go about dissing progression guilds for pugging, get a clue about how some guilds work. No one in my guild is jobless or living in their parents house. A lot of them have kids, some are at college, and a dozen or so are military. Now, it's a pain in the *** to get our top 8 together 2 nights of the week, and if we want to try for a 3rd night we may have to pug. And I can only guess but it's the exact same way in every other guild.

Edited December 25, 2012 by USCG_Davis

[MasterRune]

No one in my guild is jobless or living in their parents house. A lot of them have kids, some are at college, and a dozen or so are military. Now, it's a pain in the *** to get our top 8 together 2 nights of the week, and if we want to try for a 3rd night we may have to pug. And I can only guess but it's the exact same way in every other guild.

 

That awkward moment when I'm jobless and live at my parents.

 

OT there's always chances when you PUG something you won't get the loot. I mean its their run.

Edited December 25, 2012 by MasterRune

[kraykind]

We all agree to disagree really. In this thread there have been some good points but I think I'm going to close it and open up a thread with a new title to emphasize what to beware of/what to do/what not to do while pugging/ guild running. Thanks for everyones post

[xNYROx]

I would very much so like to know where a rage thread on the forums directed at APEX pugging is. Our top group that has to pug occasionally (due to real life issues), pugs from Hatred, Select Few, and Haterade. What could we possibly gain from dicking over the top guilds on the server for a few mats? Absolutely nothing. Our other raids that have to pug due to a raider not being able to make a night, have the same rules. You gain nothing from dicking over the pug aside from a bad server rep. Everyone has the same shot at loot no matter what APEX raid you're in. The thread complaining about us was due to use using an "exploit" to beat NiM FB/SC. We removed it and posted a kill accepted by everyone. If this doesn't satisfy you; ill be more than happy to screen cap plenty of the applications to APEX talking about how they wanted to be part of a progression guild with great server rep and that they were referred to use by either less serious guilds that we've run with before or loved pugging with us.

 

As for Hatred, I don't know of any threads smash talking them in the forums but from my personal experience with them; they are all fantastic people, great raiders, and just great people to bull **** with and I don't know of anyone on this server who wouldn't leap at the chance to pug with them.

 

So before you go about dissing progression guilds for pugging, get a clue about how some guilds work. No one in my guild is jobless or living in their parents house. A lot of them have kids, some are at college, and a dozen or so are military. Now, it's a pain in the *** to get our top 8 together 2 nights of the week, and if we want to try for a 3rd night we may have to pug. And I can only guess but it's the exact same way in every other guild.

 

I had an alt in your guild when I first joined and the first thing one of the officers said to me was to not pay attention to the drama on the forums about you at that time about a month ago I would say. As for Hatred there was a big "Hatred vs Haterade" trashing thread in the guild section a little while back also, well it was not meant to be a trashing thread but of course with a title like that it became one.

 

There was no dissing involved the fact you jumped to that conclusion is pretty insane. I said that "Even the top guilds will have complaints about them now and then" and if you are denying the facts of life you are pretty detached from reality. You can sit here and tell me there has never been one arguement in any of your PUGs? Anyone that would believe such a claim would also believe fairys, unicorns and sugar plum farts existed because there is no such thing as a perfect world.

 

So this guy was lying to me about the drama on forums at that time about APEX? I mean you can look in your guild thread and see I was talking to you and then your private messages and see you recruited me. Or do I have some random Vendetta against you and there is a conspiracy? I mean honestly I could have just got on here and lied and said "This guild is horrible and full of morons". If I was purposely trying to trash you I believe someone would be more direct like that instead of saying that "All guilds that PUG will have a drama situation eventually" which is true inevitably if you keep dealing with random people you will get random results...that is common sense.

 

As for having a job or being in the military, if you honestly think those two things makes someone more trustworthy I have nothing to say except I spent 8 years in the 101AD until i got hurt and I can tell you this some of the shadiest people I know i met there. So I am not sure what a "job" has to do with someones moral fiber. Unless this was an attempt at a 90's generic comment of "Everyone who says something i disagree with must be a kid or a troll living in their parents basement" kind of thing. Surely a mature adult as you are you would not make such a comment so i doubt it was that type of comment.

 

 

EDIT: As far as the random cavalry "It's their run comment" by the second APEX guy ,YES it would be the hosting guilds run technically BUT if you are hosting a PUG...using the "Its our run attitude" is a very sketchy point of view if you actually care about the community. It should be considered a "Community run" especially if you have to PUG more then 1-2 people. I know you probably do not really believe that comment you stated so I won't go deeper into guilds that have the "Its our run" attitude when they PUG people.

 

Oh by the way I was wrong about the guild thread...we talked here. (See I admit when I am wrong )

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=556649

 

But IF you thought I was trashing you I was not, I was stating logical facts about human behavior more or less.

Edited December 25, 2012 by xNYROx

[MasterRune]

I had an alt in your guild when I first joined and the first thing one of the officers said to me was to not pay attention to the drama on the forums about you at that time about a month ago I would say. As for Hatred there was a big "Hatred vs Haterade" trashing thread in the guild section a little while back also, well it was not meant to be a trashing thread but of course with a title like that it became one.

 

There was no dissing involved the fact you jumped to that conclusion is pretty insane. I said that "Even the top guilds will have complaints about them now and then" and if you are denying the facts of life you are pretty detached from reality. You can sit here and tell me there has never been one arguement in any of your PUGs? Anyone that would believe such a claim would also believe fairys, unicorns and sugar plum farts existed because there is no such thing as a perfect world.

 

So this guy was lying to me about the drama on forums at that time about APEX? I mean you can look in your guild thread and see I was talking to you and then your private messages and see you recruited me. Or do I have some random Vendetta against you and there is a conspiracy? I mean honestly I could have just got on here and lied and said "This guild is horrible and full of morons". If I was purposely trying to trash you I believe someone would be more direct like that instead of saying that "All guilds that PUG will have a drama situation eventually" which is true inevitably if you keep dealing with random people you will get random results...that is common sense.

 

As for having a job or being in the military, if you honestly think those two things makes someone more trustworthy I have nothing to say except I spent 8 years in the 101AD until i got hurt and I can tell you this some of the shadiest people I know i met there. So I am not sure what a "job" has to do with someones moral fiber. Unless this was an attempt at a 90's generic comment of "Everyone who says something i disagree with must be a kid or a troll living in their parents basement" kind of thing. Surely a mature adult as you are you would not make such a comment so i doubt it was that type of comment.

 

 

EDIT: As far as the random cavalry "It's their run comment" by the second APEX guy ,YES it would be the hosting guilds run technically BUT if you are hosting a PUG...using the "Its our run attitude" is a very sketchy point of view if you actually care about the community. It should be considered a "Community run" especially if you have to PUG more then 1-2 people. I know you probably do not really believe that comment you stated so I won't go deeper into guilds that have the "Its our run" attitude when they PUG people.

 

Oh by the way I was wrong about the guild thread...we talked here. (See I admit when I am wrong )

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=556649

 

But IF you thought I was trashing you I was not, I was stating logical facts about human behavior more or less.

 

What I ment by that is that there's always guilds that will act like "it's our run" Really depends on the chemistry between the guild and the people being PuG'd. I try to treat everyone fairly for my raid group. I've never ran into problems when I've ever PuG'd, I could just be lucky.

[xNYROx]

What I ment by that is that there's always guilds that will act like "it's our run" Really depends on the chemistry between the guild and the people being PuG'd. I try to treat everyone fairly for my raid group. I've never ran into problems when I've ever PuG'd, I could just be lucky.

 

Oh yes i definitly agree with that and there are always guilds like that. The successful ones generally have very little drama in their runs but you just can not avoid it sadly sometimes. APEX itself is obviouly successful for a reason as is any other guild. Like I said and you said the result really will be based on what Random people you get and how the chemistry is. I have seen some PUGs be more successful then a entire guild run.