1.6 BiS min/max for PVP (EWH vs WH debate)

[Adenosine]

Community,

I wanted to ask with the new EWH gear out, what is considered BiS for Annihil/Carnage spec Marauders, and what is BiS for Rage spec Marauders in 1.6? The direct upgrades from WH to EWH look minimal. But some stats have been redistributed from the base sets when going from directly upgrading the vanillia WH to EWH pieces. So what are we looking at now as far as ripping out the Armoring, Mods and Enhancements with EWH pieces to achieve BiS min/max?

 

Thanks a million!

Edited December 18, 2012 by Adenosine
public school system ftw

[Aluvi]

First, carnage and rage are the specs that share a common itemization, which is to go for max power and ignore crit. Annihilation on the other hand should go for around 35 to 40% crit, although if we are taking strictly pvp here, I'm not sure why you would mess with annihilation in the first place. Rage and carnage are the same a they have always been, go for power and surge, get 95% acc, crit is ignored. The only reason we buy the new armor at all is for the armoring upgrade. Replace current mods and enhance with the new low endurance, high power, high surge ones. New ear and implant pieces are not worth getting, since itemization on them is so poor.

[Voxx_Voltaare]

First off, I'm Rage spec. Secondly, I'm trying to figure this out myself.

 

So far my tentative plan is to upgrade 4pc vindicator for the armor/set bonus. Will skip the chest as it's the most expensive. I believe the Greaves have the best mods and boots the best enhancements. I'm probably going to skip upgrading the earpiece and implants altogether, but upgrade the relics(boundless ages). I may revisit the ear/plants after min/maxing everything else in case my acc/crit is a bit too low. I'm using legacy belt/bracers with 27 mod/enh. Takes a hit to exp, but worth it for the other stats. I'm currently at 1260exp, which I think is pretty acceptable.

 

Gonna be a long grind.

[JediMasterSLC]

First, carnage and rage are the specs that share a common itemization, which is to go for max power and ignore crit. Annihilation on the other hand should go for around 35 to 40% crit, although if we are taking strictly pvp here, I'm not sure why you would mess with annihilation in the first place. Rage and carnage are the same a they have always been, go for power and surge, get 95% acc, crit is ignored. The only reason we buy the new armor at all is for the armoring upgrade. Replace current mods and enhance with the new low endurance, high power, high surge ones. New ear and implant pieces are not worth getting, since itemization on them is so poor.

 

Some crit rating is worth it for every spec, even rage. The little bit of power you lose gives you a substantially higher crit chance with non-smash abilities: crush, obliterate, scream, ravage, choke, slash. The math doesn't lie, even rage spec should have 100 crit rating.

 

As far as running carnage with no crit, you're the first I've ever seen to say that. Sure scream is autocriting, but what about ravage, massacre, ataru form, and slash (I assume you alternate between massacre and slash during zen?). I'd run it with about 200 crit rating if I were you.

[JediMasterSLC]

First off, I'm Rage spec. Secondly, I'm trying to figure this out myself.

 

So far my tentative plan is to upgrade 4pc vindicator for the armor/set bonus. Will skip the chest as it's the most expensive. I believe the Greaves have the best mods and boots the best enhancements. I'm probably going to skip upgrading the earpiece and implants altogether, but upgrade the relics(boundless ages). I may revisit the ear/plants after min/maxing everything else in case my acc/crit is a bit too low. I'm using legacy belt/bracers with 27 mod/enh. Takes a hit to exp, but worth it for the other stats. I'm currently at 1260exp, which I think is pretty acceptable.

 

Gonna be a long grind.

 

Good plan. Btw the weaponmaster belt has the same mod as the vindicator greaves, you should farm that instead since it's cheaper.

[AngusFTW]

Some crit rating is worth it for every spec, even rage. The little bit of power you lose gives you a substantially higher crit chance with non-smash abilities: crush, obliterate, scream, ravage, choke, slash. The math doesn't lie, even rage spec should have 100 crit rating.

 

As far as running carnage with no crit, you're the first I've ever seen to say that. Sure scream is autocriting, but what about ravage, massacre, ataru form, and slash (I assume you alternate between massacre and slash during zen?). I'd run it with about 200 crit rating if I were you.

you'll never use slash as carnage spec.

I personally think some crit (30%+ buffed) is a good idea for carnage spec.

[JediMasterSLC]

you'll never use slash as carnage spec.

I personally think some crit (30%+ buffed) is a good idea for carnage spec.

 

False, slash has a higher base dmg than massacre, only reason massacre is usually better is because of the ataru proc. While zen/fury is up you're attacking every 1.0 seconds. The cooldown of ataru procs is 1.5 seconds. Hence, it's better to alternate between massacre and slash only during zen/fury.

Edited December 19, 2012 by JediMasterSLC

[AngusFTW]

False, slash has a higher base dmg than massacre, only reason massacre is usually better is because of the ataru proc. While zen/fury is up you're attacking every 1.0 seconds. The cooldown of ataru procs is 1.5 seconds. Hence, it's better to alternate between massacre and slash only during zen/fury.

I can't see it tbh i've spoken to a few people about this before and when they've tested it they've always found massacre to do more dmg. The crit thing for gearing is more my taste (if people prefer bigger screams then more massacre crits so be it) but i've never seen any high parsing mara/sent that use slash in there rotation as combat/carnage.

 

Anyways back on topic. If you want to play with different specs i'd look into dedicating say 2-3 pieces of gear to crit that you can then make clones of that gear replacing the crit with power that way if you wanna play a more heavily power based spec that doesnt require much crit.. eg rage you just swap in that gear. Thats what i do i have 3 pieces of crit gear that has my crit chance at around 31-32% buffed (for watchman/anni and for my personal taste combat/carnage) but for the same slots i also have power replacements that gives me 1250+ power (for whenever i wanna go smash). With how easy it is to get wh now this is perfectly viable.

Edited December 19, 2012 by AngusFTW

[Projawa]

I can't see it tbh i've spoken to a few people about this before and when they've tested it they've always found massacre to do more dmg. The crit thing for gearing is more my taste (if people prefer bigger screams then more massacre crits so be it) but i've never seen any high parsing mara/sent that use slash in there rotation as combat/carnage.

 

Anyways this thread is about yet another rage monkey. stack power and more power.

 

Correct, because the automatic Ataru proc from Massacre is separate from the 1.5 sec Ataru proc cooldown.

[Voxx_Voltaare]

Good plan. Btw the weaponmaster belt has the same mod as the vindicator greaves, you should farm that instead since it's cheaper.

 

Good call on the belt. Thx!

[shyroman]

False, slash has a higher base dmg than massacre, only reason massacre is usually better is because of the ataru proc. While zen/fury is up you're attacking every 1.0 seconds. The cooldown of ataru procs is 1.5 seconds. Hence, it's better to alternate between massacre and slash only during zen/fury.

 

Massacre also has an extra 30% crit damage from the skill tree while slash doesn't. Add on the automatic proc as well which puts massacre a bit above slash. There is also a chance that massacre will proc an additional ataru form hit, just like any other melee attack. The massacre ataru hit and the normal ataru hit are not related when considering when they could proc.

[neo_alex]

Check this build, so far it seems to be the BiS for elite war hero:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/203459ce-c22f-4f48-a76f-972c426d64bc

 

It uses normal war hero implants because they are much better than elite versions.

 

If you insist on using elite implants, here is a variation which is only slightly worse than the above:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/c1f469cf-7dee-41c4-ba5c-bf715c642fd6

 

Hope that helps.

[Alithia]

How would you augment? End/Str or End/Power?

[neo_alex]

How would you augment? End/Str or End/Power?

 

Str/end until you hit 30% crit, then power.

[Kel-el]

Check this build, so far it seems to be the BiS for elite war hero:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/203459ce-c22f-4f48-a76f-972c426d64bc

 

It uses normal war hero implants because they are much better than elite versions.

 

If you insist on using elite implants, here is a variation which is only slightly worse than the above:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/c1f469cf-7dee-41c4-ba5c-bf715c642fd6

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you for posting these links. Quick question.

 

This gear set up seems to fit a watchman spec with the amount of crit. Is there a better set up for Focus, or does this fit Combat and Focus as well.

 

Noob question, but with Focus mainly stacking power, I was curious as to whether a better mod setup benefits focus or if the extra power just has diminishing returns and this, in fact, works for all three specs.

[neo_alex]

I know combat has the same stat priority, however I think focus favours any increase in power over 30% crit. That, indeed, is a watchman/combat build.

[Loladarulz]

About combat spec: they guy above told Combat is the same as focus - all power no crit. Blade Storm is like 20% of all damage that Combat/Carange does.And Blade Storm doesn't hit hard as Smash anyway.

Going all power/surge is a waste - surge diminishes very hard, this spec needs accuracy and critical to boost dps.

[AsiriusNazriel]

Higher crit gives you more reliable burst.

 

I run high crit build as Rage and have 0 issues. My smashes may be 300-400 points less than a full power spec, but I'm still smashing for 5-5.k and up on undergeared, 6-7k is not uncommon. But my VS, FS, and Force Crush crit more reliablely. It works for me and I'm happy with it.

[neo_alex]

I said combat is the same as watchman. Focus is different.

[HolyFrogx]

you'll never use slash as carnage spec.

I personally think some crit (30%+ buffed) is a good idea for carnage spec.

Slash often crits at 3k + Ataru strike in pvp. I like to use the every now and then.

[HolyFrogx]

Massacre also has an extra 30% crit damage from the skill tree while slash doesn't. Add on the automatic proc as well which puts massacre a bit above slash. There is also a chance that massacre will proc an additional ataru form hit, just like any other melee attack. The massacre ataru hit and the normal ataru hit are not related when considering when they could proc.

 

So can I confirm that there is a chance of three hits from one massacre?