So much for not charging subs for Makeb

[Fenshire]

Money being spent on the game is not being funneled back into the game. I will believe this game has a future when we see NEW content being made that hasn't already existed in studio since summer.

 

I do love the core game, and like a sucker, I subscribe so that I don't have to deal with the terrible restrictions on F2P players.

 

That said, it's taken me a year to finish two class stories, so I have a ton of content at my disposal to where I won't have to buy Makeb. Once I finish the class stories, then I'm done with this game. Assuming it lasts that long.

[Zaemiel]

Developers have been talking about integrating new systems into Makeb. If this doesn't mean mini-games per se, it's bound to be as close to them as we're going to get (at least in the foreseeable future).

 

Nah, new system does not necessary mean mini-game. They also said new items won't be better than raid ones. This could be a 'new system'... Who knows? We need more info...

 

And i am also very annoyed makeb is not free for subscribers... I have an idea for EA: why do not make us pay for the each patch they do? Why, they do work on them, why not to demand money? Crap.... It is not about 10 bucks, but the attitude to players:mad:

[Master-Nala]

You guys are starting to become really annoying with your "10 bux" mantra. And calling everyone who disagrees with you kids.

Loads of people have already told you numerous times that the issue is not the price of this so called expansion. The issue is the way this game is ruled by devs and their attitude.

Heck, i'm willing to pay them 50$ or even more for the real expansion, which includes class story continuation on a number of new planets, end game content and new features like mini games. In other words, if they can show us that they are capable of turning to the right direction.

 

Honestly, that consideration is not something that players should reasonably care about. You have a choice. Do you think Makeb is worth $10. Yes or No? As a customer, that's all you really need to consider. I know that MMORPG players tend to feel very possessive of the games they play. But it isn't a democracy. EA is a merchant selling a service for a fee.

 

If you still like the service, then pay for it. Give feedback, but feedback about their 'attitude' is only going to have you spinning your wheels.

[MiraniSedai]

I think it very unlikely BW/EA will relent and put Makeb on the Cartel Shop and that saddens me.

 

I am relatively new to this game and currently a subscriber via time card. Having been burned many times by game companys over charging, double and triple (and worse) charging and generally messing me up financially, I absolutely refuse to give them financial information anymore. I realize this is my choice.

 

I had believed that I would be able to handle subscription + coin purchases by Time card and the Cartel Coin Cards that have been announced (though not yet released).

 

Because BW/EA refuses to put Makeb in brick and mortar stores OR the Cartel Shop I effectively cannot ever get it. Which means my time playing this game has a pretty solid end date. Once I have leveled the characters I want to level to 50 there is nothing further for me to do. Game ends there for me.

 

Knowing I have that end date is really making me rethink my decision to subscribe at all.

Edited December 20, 2012 by MiraniSedai

[weapon_x]

For people who have subbed since launch this is BS, what exactly have subs been used for? This game was circling the toilet bowl of fail for a long time and then F2P came along and saved the day. That day next year however i expect will be a very different story.

 

This **** may not be expensive but it still amounts to RIP OFF no matter how you cut it.

 

They used your money to subsidize the FTP conversion. It was done with STO and it will be done again, because consumers are idiots. I can't believe the number of betas I see on these forums that tolerate the BS that's come from EA. I'd say the all of the EA defenders on this website would, if there home was being robbed, help the thieves carry things out to their car. As for me, I would never defend a company. You freaks probably liked them on Facebook.

Edited December 20, 2012 by weapon_x

[Master-Nala]

And i am also very annoyed makeb is not free for subscribers... I have an idea for EA: why do not make us pay for the each patch they do? Why, they do work on them, why not to demand money? Crap.... It is not about 10 bucks, but the attitude to players:mad:

 

Your first sentence is inconsistent with your final sentence. The only way to reconcile the two is that you aren't thinking about this rationally and this is purely an emotional response. Now you probably think that's a slam at your but it isn't. I am just pointing that out because you are entitled to feel however you want. Every person has that right.

 

But you additionally assign the blame for you feeling that way to EA. Logically, EA is not responsible for your feelings of annoyance. They are selling a service. In that sense is it really only about $10. This is why people who are not annoyed state that it is about $10. Because, if you are going to assign blame for how you feel to another, then we can consider that other's actions purely without regard for how they made you feel because EA can't control your emotional response.

[BJWyler]

wait are you comparing or describing SWTOR, the game with the biggest budget in the history of MMOs as a kickstarter project?

 

That has nothing to do with it. What is relevant is your statement that something is a cash grab when there is no firm launch date and no guaranteed list of content for when the product launches. Your statement indicated that you would not financially support such a business model. Therefore I am assuming that you do not support any Kickstarter project, because your statement identifies exactly what any and all Kickstarter projects are. It also identifies any game that begins to take pre-orders and pre-purchases before any actual launch date is set - the most recent of which to do that was Guild Wars 2, which again, I presume you have not yet purchased, because features that were promised to be in at launch are still not in the game. I was simply asking a question to either confirm or deny my suppositions.

 

BJ

[Zaemiel]

Your first sentence is inconsistent with your final sentence. The only way to reconcile the two is that you aren't thinking about this rationally and this is purely an emotional response. Now you probably think that's a slam at your but it isn't. I am just pointing that out because you are entitled to feel however you want. Every person has that right.

 

But you additionally assign the blame for you feeling that way to EA. Logically, EA is not responsible for your feelings of annoyance. They are selling a service. In that sense is it really only about $10. This is why people who are not annoyed state that it is about $10. Because, if you are going to assign blame for how you feel to another, then we can consider that other's actions purely without regard for how they made you feel because EA can't control your emotional response.

 

Do you read yourself? EA do not responsible or my feelings.... May be. But it is like say robber is not liable for emotional distress of victim...

 

Yeah, may be i am not right. But as far as i remember it was NOT the expansion at summer. and suddenly became when they wanted money... And i thought subscribers should have not been forced to pay for new content. So, either they LIED then, and Makeb was an expansion or they lie now. In anyway it looks bad. I can spend even 100 bucks for good quality addon, but so far i only get disappointed and cheated all the time...

[Master-Nala]

They used your money to subsidize the FTP conversion.

 

Once it's paid to EA, it's no longer your money. It's their money. They can do with it whatever they wish. I paid my money to have access to the servers and the updates we received. After they had it, I no longer care what they do with it. They can spend it on FTP, new cars for executives, drugs, whatever. It isn't any business of mine or yours.

 

It was done with STO and it will be done again, because consumers are idiots. I can't believe the number of betas I see on these forums that tolerate the BS that's come from EA. I'd say the all of the EA defenders on this website would, if there home was being robbed, help the thieves carry things out to their car. As for me, I would never defend a company. You freaks probably liked them on Facebook.

 

Again, so much emotion you guys exhibit. Feel your anger, but don't let it control you or your perceptions.

[Master-Nala]

Do you read yourself? EA do not responsible or my feelings.... May be. But it is like say robber is not liable for emotional distress of victim...

 

Your analogy is a good one and shows my point. Logically a robber IS responsible for his/her victim's emotional distress. Any reasonable person would say the same. But let's say that feeling 'annoyed' was actionable under the law. I don't believe many juries would look at EA's actions, i.e. changing their business model and thus charging $10 for a content update would 'annoy' the reasonably prudent person, which is the standard that would apply in most states.

 

Yeah, may be i am not right. But as far as i remember it was NOT the expansion at summer. and suddenly became when they wanted money... And i thought subscribers should have not been forced to pay for new content. So, either they LIED then, and Makeb was an expansion or they lie now. In anyway it looks bad. I can spend even 100 bucks for good quality addon, but so far i only get disappointed and cheated all the time...

 

Let's say I offer to help you move a piece of furniture out of your house this Saturday. In fact, I give you my word of honor, sign it in blood, etc. The next day I break my leg and so do not in fact help you on Saturday. Am I a liar? Circumstances have changed. As they have here.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Master-Nala

[Zaemiel]

Once it's paid to EA, it's no longer your money. It's their money. They can do with it whatever they wish. I paid my money to have access to the servers and the updates we received. After they had it, I no longer care what they do with it. They can spend it on FTP, new cars for executives, drugs, whatever. It isn't any business of mine or yours.

 

 

 

Again, so much emotion you guys exhibit. Feel your anger, but don't let it control you or your perceptions.

 

Hate and anger are strong feelings, you know. What does it mean? If ppl do not like the game they would not care much. The hate and anger appear when someone do something wrong, right? In this case, many ppl just do not like where the game goes and how the communications going on.... Many feel cheated and noone knows what EA would do next. No plans, everything's old (for new money) and no info about future.... Brilliant, isn't it?

[RichT]

finally, whether people want to here it or not.. this content WAS, at one point, going to be offered as a content patch and free.. sorry it was. this in itself is reason for people to be put off by this expansion. you can deny it all you want and say "free" was never mentioned.. but the interview clearly implies Makeb was going to be a content patch and hence free to subscribers. for reference. here is the interview:

 

.

 

 

Ok, so what was the feature list when Ohlen made that statement? Would you be able to link me the exact list of features the free one was going to offer and then compare it to what we are going to get now?

 

No, you cant. noone can.

 

You have no idea if they added content to what he was talking about to justify the 10 dollars. Perhaps it is the exact same thing and the 10 bucks is unjustified...but we dont know that.

 

Yet people are running around claiming RotHC....(which was only referenced as Makeb in that popular "proof")....was supposed to be free. I havent seen in that "proof" where he even uttered the words Rise of the Hutt Cartel.

 

This update could possibly be a little more than the content he was talking about 6 months ago.

 

 

Until we can see, side by side...the product he was referencing, and the Expansion we are now seeing advertised...we have no way to say this was supposed to be free.

Edited December 20, 2012 by RichT

[Darth__Carnal]

Why do Star Wars MMOs always = Mess ?

 

The last 4 pages of this post has forced me to simply sit here shaking my head saying,

 

"If I wanted this much drama, I could of stayed in SWG."

Edited December 20, 2012 by Darth__Carnal

[Oyranos]

it doesnt sound like a major expansion... maybe thats why its so cheap for subs...

[Zaemiel]

Let's say I offer to help you move a piece of furniture out of your house this Saturday. In fact, I give you my word of honor, sign it in blood, etc. The next day I break my leg and so do not in fact help you on Saturday. Am I a liar? Circumstances have changed. As they have here.

 

Sorry, who in EA broke his leg?

 

It was bad example. Besides, if we had a contract you would still be liable for damages.

 

It is not about 'situation', it is about communication, information and keeping their word. They could make makeb free, but charge for the rest new planets to come. That would be perfectly fine! But they prefer to lie. Sorry, but it is true.

[Master-Nala]

Hate and anger are strong feelings, you know. What does it mean? If ppl do not like the game they would not care much. The hate and anger appear when someone do something wrong, right?

 

Not necessarily. Hatred is almost completely irrational. That doesn't make it wrong, just that emotion is so intense it tends to crowd out logic. Anger is more nuanced. I have often been angry at people, but upon reflection and having some empathy for their position, have let go of my anger.

 

In this case, many ppl just do not like where the game goes and how the communications going on.... Many feel cheated and noone knows what EA would do next. No plans, everything's old (for new money) and no info about future.... Brilliant, isn't it?

 

I understand folks' feelings. But I also see the issue from EA's perspective. And I don't believe it is as worthy of this much anger as you all do.

[RichT]

From june this year at E3, James Ohlen, game director (maybe not anymore...):

 

 

Starting at the 5th minute mark:

"Makeb will be the biggest, non expansion pack, piece of content that any online game ever released"

 

- for free (read "included in the subscription")

- before the end of the year

 

He also speaks about Ancient Hypergates and Terror from Beyond being developed, so all of that content was being worked on and almost ready for release in june.

 

Then some idiot from Bioscrooge decides to go F2P, shaft the subscribers by giving all that content piecemeal and making Makeb a fake paying expansion.

 

 

What did he say about Rise of the Hutt cartel? Thats the real question, to my knowledge he didnt mention it at all.

 

If I told you you could have all my "Stormtrooper" action figures for free, it doesnt mean I lied to you by not giving you my " Imperial set" which includes Tarkin , Vader and a Stormtrooper.

 

 

Perhaps what makeb was going to be, added a little more to justify that 10 dollars?

[Goretzu]

Easy. They will sell more expansions than they will sell Life Day packs. The more they sell, the lower they can price it to offset the development cost.

 

Life Day pack have effectively a $0.00 development cost.

 

If they sold them for $0.01 each they'd still be making a profit (and would sell a LOT more).

 

 

 

 

Adventure pack have much more significant production costs.

[Zaemiel]

Not necessarily. Hatred is almost completely irrational. That doesn't make it wrong, just that emotion is so intense it tends to crowd out logic. Anger is more nuanced. I have often been angry at people, but upon reflection and having some empathy for their position, have let go of my anger.

 

 

 

I understand folks' feelings. But I also see the issue from EA's perspective. And I don't believe it is as worthy of this much anger as you all do.

 

To be clear, i am not angry. Just wonder where the EA greed's limits?

[Zaemiel]

 

Perhaps what makeb was going to be, added a little more to justify that 10 dollars?

 

I hope we'll know it before we pass whole planet :/

[pantognost]

Did a lot of people complaining about the cost of Makeb miss the whole 'F2play' thing?

 

Guys- SWTOR is a Free to Play game now. That means its major source of income comes from people buying stuff from the cash shop.

 

All the plans made before the conversion are dust now. Times have changed. It's sad, but that's where we're at.

 

Did the whole Life Day thing not tell you something? There will be no more freebies. Ever. Deal with it.

 

 

 

Personally, I've pre-ordered. The cost to subscribers is about the same as a coffee and cake daliance at my local deli. That gives me an hour's pleasure - Makeb will give me many more. Win-win.

 

Oh my... Let me review your argument.

SWTOR is free to play so its making money from selling items DLC expansions.

Plans before the f2p transition are down the drain due to the new business model.

Okey...But wait! I still pay a sub!

So...the game is NOT f2p it has a f2p OPTION!

And guess what; the subscribers still have to pay for the new content (which is not enough to warrant an expansion)

I understand loyalty to the game, I have paid over 500 dollars worth of subs and purchase of the game. I just think that defending this money-grabbing decision is not the same as defending the game. The latter I can relate to. I even, in my way do the same thing. But this seems more and more like a "take the money and run scheme" from EA.

My main fear is that in a years time there won't be a game to play, but some bottom lines (virtual and human) will have grown significantly.

Peace.

[DigitalDreamz]

Oh my... Let me review your argument.

SWTOR is free to play so its making money from selling items DLC expansions.

Plans before the f2p transition are down the drain due to the new business model.

Okey...But wait! I still pay a sub!

So...the game is NOT f2p it has a f2p OPTION!

And guess what; the subscribers still have to pay for the new content (which is not enough to warrant an expansion)

I understand loyalty to the game, I have paid over 500 dollars worth of subs and purchase of the game. I just think that defending this money-grabbing decision is not the same as defending the game. The latter I can relate to. I even, in my way do the same thing. But this seems more and more like a "take the money and run scheme" from EA.

My main fear is that in a years time there won't be a game to play, but some bottom lines (virtual and human) will have grown significantly.

Peace.

 

They flat out lied and everyone knows it. Or if you look at it this way:

 

James Ohlen meant Makeb will be free AFTER you pay ten bucks...

[Vlacke]

I think it very unlikely BW/EA will relent and put Makeb on the Cartel Shop and that saddens me.

 

I am relatively new to this game and currently a subscriber via time card. Having been burned many times by game companys over charging, double and triple (and worse) charging and generally messing me up financially, I absolutely refuse to give them financial information anymore. I realize this is my choice.

 

I have no intention of being disrespectful or anything but that is just paranoia which is very unfounded in this particular case.

People have complained about lots of things here but out of hundreds of thousands of people who are paying subscription via credit cards no one has ever complained about being ripped off, charged more than he/she should have been etc.No one has also ever complained about compromised security information so it's fairly reasonable to say that you should just relax about it.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Vlacke

[RichT]

I hope we'll know it before we pass whole planet :/

 

It looks to be still a few months out, so hopefully we get more info as to whats included as time moves on.

 

Speaking only for me, the new Planet and 5 levels alone, is enough to justify my 10 bucks...but I can understand some want more info first to see if it's worth it to them.

[pantognost]

Once it's paid to EA, it's no longer your money. It's their money. They can do with it whatever they wish. I paid my money to have access to the servers and the updates we received. After they had it, I no longer care what they do with it. They can spend it on FTP, new cars for executives, drugs, whatever. It isn't any business of mine or yours.

 

 

 

Again, so much emotion you guys exhibit. Feel your anger, but don't let it control you or your perceptions.

 

Ehmm...It is really not our money once they leave our pockets, but...which side are you on? Are you working for EA and look out for their best interest or are you a consumer who wants to receive better value and service for her/his money? The personal comments that you received regarding this post, I believe were aimed at this odd conflict of interests that is exhibited between your position (consumer) and your post (corporate spinning).

Loyalty to the game is not the same as loyalty to the firm. The former is for us. The latter is for corporate employees.

At the moment the firm (EA) is showing an attitude that can only be described as loot and pillage on our game and our wallet.

Of course, it's your money, so I don't give a heck about your wallet.

For the game though...