Anvillian Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Im not starting an argument here, I am simply saying that everyone has their own playstyle. If a spec works, it works. But each spec will have a strong point and a weak point, you cant deny that. 1 point of damage gives 1 point of threat. That is correct. In soresu form, Threat is increased by 100% (1.3 change, im assuming this is still relevant) 1 point of damage gives 2 points of threat. Also correct. Abilities that have "Generate a high amount of threat" give 50% extra threat (im assuming this hasn't changed) and stacks with Soresu form. 1 point of damage gives 3 points of threat. So ultimately, Crushing blow gives 3 points of threat for each point of damage it deals, every time its used. Edited December 27, 2012 by Anvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrema Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Im not starting an argument here, I am simply saying that everyone has their own playstyle. If a spec works, it works. But each spec will have a strong point and a weak point, you cant deny that. 1 point of damage gives 1 point of threat. That is correct. In soresu form, Threat is increased by 100% (1.3 change, im assuming this is still relevant) 1 point of damage gives 2 points of threat. Also correct. Abilities that have "Generate a high amount of threat" give 50% extra threat (im assuming this hasn't changed) and stacks with Soresu form. 1 point of damage gives 3 points of threat. So ultimately, Crushing blow gives 3 points of threat for each point of damage it deals, every time its used. Okay, that's all known facts already, and I never denied any of it. You should stop focusing on these modifiers and see some real time parses. Because you seem to have ignored the sample parse I showed before I'll paste it again: Crushing Blow hits The Writhing Horror for 1000 energy damage, causing 2601 threat. Crushing Blow critically hits The Writhing Horror for 1475* energy damage, causing 3837 threat! Impale hits The Writhing Horror for 1391 energy damage, causing 2782 threat. Impale critically hits Jealous Male for 1976* energy damage, causing 3953 threat! When it comes down to it, the base damage of impale is higher so the final threat turns out very close. Plus Impale is on a shorter CD. Even if CB comes out slightly on top, it is absolutely not enough to give up 4% flat reduction at all times + a higher frequency of sonic barrier + 20% DR after jumps (yes even for 4 seconds - a perfect example is dreads on tfb, after lightning storm everybody's low on hp, you leap and scream for 20% DR and a 1k+ sonic barrier. Even if the DR is for 4 seconds that is huge for the healers at such a point.). In actual gameplay, as far as operation bosses go, the threat difference between the two moves is moot anyways, since if you proactively taunt you would never lose aggro after a minute (assuming no threat dumps) so really the only things that matter are all the extra mitigation you get from hybrid. Am I saying Immortal is not viable? Absolutely not, all I'm saying is hybrid is better at mitigation, which is what tanks should be doing. It still sounds like you've never even given it a go, I still urge you to at least take it for a spin before you argue so strongly against it Edited December 27, 2012 by Xtrema Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 My understanding was high threat generate 2.5 per point of damage...either way... Smash does more damage and generates either 2.3 vs 2.5 or 2.6 vs 3.0 to more targets and hits harder, and more often and debuffs accuracy each time... Try it out and see...worst case you like your way and go back to it....or you find something you like better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) and after reading this comment i hope everyone moves on and uses there time more efficiently... i dont understand why a pve tank would use anything but a 31 point build. As other stated hybrids are pvp use only don't bring that garbage to my raids. Passing on 4% increase to internal and elemental dmg?!?!? giving up a passive ability that grants you rage?!?! Not taking crushing blow?!?! instant 3 stack of armor debuff and high threat which you juggys suck at, my guess would be that this guy also takes thrown gauntlets cause he like the animation No, you are wrong. When most say hybrid in relation to jugg tanking this is what they are talking about: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/juggernaut#26j6k2i-211j282k3-0 The common misunderstanding, is that all the tank classes are not viable without the full 31 points in the tank tree. With assassins and powertechs, this is mostly correct. Assassins and powertechs can't spend those top tier points in anything else that is comparable to what they give up. However with the Jugg, the higher tier is essentially devoted to removing the rage penalties to soresu form with the capstone skill being a threat builder with a situational AoE effect. The 4% shield chance and 4% internal/elemental damage reduction from the immortal tree are traded for 4% overall damage reduction and higher uptime on sonic barrier from the vengeance tree. Hybrid also picks up impale. The result is better damage mitigation and on par single target threat generation, but it does give up the rage generation benefits of the top immortal tier. Both full immortal and hybrid are completely viable in current content, with the hybrid being more attractive to those who wish to squeeze out more damage mitigation. Edited December 28, 2012 by Marb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckman Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have tried them both, the main thing I noticed is that immortal is better for clearing trash is is par for boss fights. While hybrid is not as good on trash mobs but better for for the boss fights. But if you are in a raid and have issue with trash mobs, someone is face-pulling, breaking cc etc you guys all know the drill. I read most of the postings for this and as mentioned I tried it, consider this a testimonial or a bump to the original etc whatever floats your boat smash is better then crushing blow, with it being free, more damage I dont know why he or any tank would have the point in shien form tho that doesnt make any sense for pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have tried them both, the main thing I noticed is that immortal is better for clearing trash is is par for boss fights. While hybrid is not as good on trash mobs but better for for the boss fights. But if you are in a raid and have issue with trash mobs, someone is face-pulling, breaking cc etc you guys all know the drill. I read most of the postings for this and as mentioned I tried it, consider this a testimonial or a bump to the original etc whatever floats your boat smash is better then crushing blow, with it being free, more damage I dont know why he or any tank would have the point in shien form tho that doesnt make any sense for pve The points spent in the shien line can be put anywhere, they are only taken for personal preference. 1 point for shien stance is pretty good considering your already that far up the tree. You of course don't use it for tanking, its more a quality of life addition. Those 2 points could be put in pooled hatred or unyielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 18/23 27/12/2 31/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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