Phasersablaze Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 roll vg, buy legacy gear, put commando pvp gear into legacy gear, get 50 on vg, mail gear to vg, faceroll. Way ahead of you boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 the guy in chat obviously doesn't know how good skillex is. No pvp is normally like this for mercs. Even with force leap on cd, he still died horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 the guy in chat obviously doesn't know how good skillex is. No pvp is normally like this for mercs. Even with force leap on cd, he still died horribly. Clinks is in the same guild as Skillex. They are just kidding around, but sadly, it's also the ugly truth as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamef Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This can also be how Commando is in PvP: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/voidstar1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/hutball2.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/novare1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/hutball1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/voidstar2.jpg/ They are all pugs, from when I was Assault spec'd. Running more ops I switched to Gunnery, but I put up similar numbers with that and actually have more kills because of finishing power of HiB and Demo Round. Still, Commando (especially Gunnery) is frustating to play in PvP. We have to stand still to buff/proc our 3 most powerful attacks, and our dps might as well be zero on the move, and it doesn't really make any sense to move anyway since we can't move fast enough or slow down anyone else enough to get away... I'm eager to get another toon to lvl 50 pvp bracket so I can see if the grass really is as much greener as everyone says it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This can also be how Commando is in PvP: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/voidstar1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/hutball2.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/novare1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/hutball1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/voidstar2.jpg/ They are all pugs, from when I was Assault spec'd. Running more ops I switched to Gunnery, but I put up similar numbers with that and actually have more kills because of finishing power of HiB and Demo Round. Still, Commando (especially Gunnery) is frustating to play in PvP. We have to stand still to buff/proc our 3 most powerful attacks, and our dps might as well be zero on the move, and it doesn't really make any sense to move anyway since we can't move fast enough or slow down anyone else enough to get away... I'm eager to get another toon to lvl 50 pvp bracket so I can see if the grass really is as much greener as everyone says it is. that is how commando can be against bad pugs. yes, it is possible to put up very high numbers with Merc, especially against pugs. posts like these are very detrimental to us getting the help we need, b/c for every post like this, bioware seems to ignore 100 posts that have very legitimate concerns. WTB instant cast power shot/tracer missile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasersablaze Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This can also be how Commando is in PvP: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/voidstar1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/hutball2.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/novare1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/hutball1.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/voidstar2.jpg/ They are all pugs, from when I was Assault spec'd. Running more ops I switched to Gunnery, but I put up similar numbers with that and actually have more kills because of finishing power of HiB and Demo Round. Still, Commando (especially Gunnery) is frustating to play in PvP. We have to stand still to buff/proc our 3 most powerful attacks, and our dps might as well be zero on the move, and it doesn't really make any sense to move anyway since we can't move fast enough or slow down anyone else enough to get away... I'm eager to get another toon to lvl 50 pvp bracket so I can see if the grass really is as much greener as everyone says it is. That really doesn't prove anything besides how bad Pugs are. I almost always have a 600k WZ every day when I complete my daily as Arsenal. (I'm on The Shadowlnds too, you might have seen me) All that proves is you have better gear/skill than random pugs which isnt saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamef Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 That really doesn't prove anything besides how bad Pugs are. I almost always have a 600k WZ every day when I complete my daily as Arsenal. (I'm on The Shadowlnds too, you might have seen me) All that proves is you have better gear/skill than random pugs which isnt saying much. I think it's a pretty poor assessment (and rather insulting to the player) of the class when you dismiss out of hand evidence of success in the regular 50 WZ queue, vs. pugs and premades... which is probably like 90% of all PvP played. And, though I have no direct experience with ranked, from what I see in the regular q of premades from guilds that do ranked (or just run premades alot), ranged dps is dead no matter the class. I see Sorc/Sage and Op/GS healers, and then everything else is a hybrid tank or pure melee... and maybe an Assault Vanagurd or Powertech Pyro, but they are borderline melee anyway. I mean, what is the point of ranged when melee have such an assortment of long duration snares, roots, a pair of 10m attacks to hit you as you kite away, a gap closer on a short or even shorter cooldown, and numerous defensive cooldowns and/or ways to exit combat... not to mention having thier only channeled ability being, of course, uninterruptable? The most basic coordination between two melee can take down any ranged class in seconds, but that doesn't really hold true in reverse... so wheras Commando may be the most maligned, in the small objective areas of swtor WZs, ranged DPS is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Hi Er'nesto, I've seen you in a few WZs every now and then, you're pretty good. Quite possibly the best of the 'up-and-coming' Republic DPS commandos. I think last time I saw you you still had some BM - are you completely geared up yet? I mean, what is the point of ranged when melee have such an assortment of long duration snares, roots, a pair of 10m attacks to hit you as you kite away, a gap closer on a short or even shorter cooldown, and numerous defensive cooldowns and/or ways to exit combat... not to mention having thier only channeled ability being, of course, uninterruptable? The most basic coordination between two melee can take down any ranged class in seconds, but that doesn't really hold true in reverse... so wheras Commando may be the most maligned, in the small objective areas of swtor WZs, ranged DPS is out. Well, there's the rub. In RWZs there is effectively no such thing as 'ranged', unless you're a 'slinger/sniper, and even they are susceptible to stealth.Tackling that problem would go a long way towards helping us - but it would require a revamp of a lot more than just us. At this late stage, I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Every tweak to realign the ranged/melee problem is instead going to be a series of bandaids. Like the sprint/heal/stunbubble fixes to sages. We're going to need some serious fixing up. Edited November 10, 2012 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I think it's a pretty poor assessment (and rather insulting to the player) of the class when you dismiss out of hand evidence of success in the regular 50 WZ queue, vs. pugs and premades... which is probably like 90% of all PvP played. And, though I have no direct experience with ranked and that is why we can dismiss your screenshots as "evidence". its an anecdote, nothing more. the second half of your post is right on tho, which makes me question what makes you think your screenshots proved anything in the first place...... there is a MASSIVE difference between ranked and unranked. you see people complain about 4 man premades in unranked, but those people are incredibly ignorant of what goes on in ranked. if youre not a mara/sent, assassin/shadow or op/scoun healer, youre a detriment to your team 9 times out of 10 the biggest mistake bioware has made with pvp in this game is that they are balancing it around the lowest common denominator as far as skill is concerned. what this does is drastically lower the skill required to be successful with certain classes. that also means that for players that can play those classes at above-average skill levels, they can easily dominate. you give a good player every tool, they will use them all to the best of their ability. this latest change to resolve is a clear example that bioware is more concerned with simplifying the game so that mistakes are not punished, and that bad players have an easier time at succeeding. in the end, it only further extends the skill gap Edited November 11, 2012 by cashogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamef Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hi Er'nesto, I've seen you in a few WZs every now and then, you're pretty good. Quite possibly the best of the 'up-and-coming' Republic DPS commandos. I think last time I saw you you still had some BM - are you completely geared up yet? Well, there's the rub. In RWZs there is effectively no such thing as 'ranged', unless you're a 'slinger/sniper, and even they are susceptible to stealth.Tackling that problem would go a long way towards helping us - but it would require a revamp of a lot more than just us. At this late stage, I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Every tweak to realign the ranged/melee problem is instead going to be a series of bandaids. Like the sprint/heal/stunbubble fixes to sages. We're going to need some serious fixing up. Thanks for the props... All WH now, plus Elite Main Hand, except for BM gauntlets that have the WH helmet enhancement in them. As soon as I get a 3rd (love the grind!) WH helmet for the higher power mod I'll put that in the WH gauntlets and equip them. I've def seen you in warzones too. I am always happy to pug up with a Valor (that's you right?), RoTJ, or Resilience premade. I am pretty sure we were in a pub v. pub the other day when someone called me a grav round spamming noob (Ironically, I finished top dmg and medals overall that match iirc... lol)! Anyway, how stupid of me to spam the ability that buffs/procs my 3 strongest attacks, gives me a shield, debuffs my target... and can make advanced med probe instant! It is difficult to imagine how to really balance melee vs. ranged at this point... Perhaps new styles of WZs that favor ranged mechanics would bring value to them without changing combat as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacer Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Wow. Class snobbery. Oh, and thank you for not making it another Windu killing Fet thing. That is getting really old. Windu Killed Fett. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamef Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 and that is why we can dismiss your screenshots as "evidence". its an anecdote, nothing more. the second half of your post is right on tho, which makes me question what makes you think your screenshots proved anything in the first place...... The screen shots were evidence, actual, real evidence, not just bluster or speculation, to support that it's not all doom and gloom for Commandos in the regular 50 pvp bracket. However going back to my original post to this thread (hint: maybe you could keybind the 'previous page' ability), I pointed out that Commandos have weaknesses and did seem to have a harder time in WZs than other classes, and that I was looking forward to getting another class into the 50 bracket to see what is was like. Next, I was honest that I've never done ranked, but based on my experience in regular pvp and my observations of the premade groups of ranked guilds, I drew conclusions about why Commandos are not favored for pvp and described the general balance issues between ranged and melee classes. You subsequently agreed with my conclusions, but for some reason couldn't help accusing me of using anecdotal evidence to make some argument about ranked pvp, of which I did neither. Perhaps you feel that attempting to discredit a previous poster somehow makes your own post more valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The screen shots were evidence, actual, real evidence, not just bluster or speculation, to support that it's not all doom and gloom for Commandos in the regular 50 pvp bracket. However going back to my original post to this thread (hint: maybe you could keybind the 'previous page' ability), I pointed out that Commandos have weaknesses and did seem to have a harder time in WZs than other classes, and that I was looking forward to getting another class into the 50 bracket to see what is was like. Next, I was honest that I've never done ranked, but based on my experience in regular pvp and my observations of the premade groups of ranked guilds, I drew conclusions about why Commandos are not favored for pvp and described the general balance issues between ranged and melee classes. You subsequently agreed with my conclusions, but for some reason couldn't help accusing me of using anecdotal evidence to make some argument about ranked pvp, of which I did neither. Perhaps you feel that attempting to discredit a previous poster somehow makes your own post more valid? posting warzone screenshots is anecdotal evidence. there are a ton of factors involved with the outcome, largest of all being player skill level. bottomline is that they are in no way accurate at showing how classes compare, there are just too many uncontrollable variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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