Tyranoc Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Stop whinging you freaking babies. I got myself 2 white crystals on the PTS so i dont care. I see nothing wrong with the grab bags, especially after playing games like RF Online in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) This is why online gambling is licenced, because you're right without someone overseeing it there is no way to tell what they are doing. Whether some likes or dislikes gambling is fairly moot (although in a game played by kids, perhaps not so much - quite simply gambling should never be offered to minors, it can never be ethical), but unlicenced commercial gambling is just always bad (and they've caught a few companies doing some very shady and/or illegal things). well by your logic buying packs of Pokemon cards or Baseball cards is also "unlicensed gambling" and shouldn't be sold to minor... lmao you guys can try to spin it and babble all the nonsense you want but buying an assortment package is not gambling... Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 well by that logic buying packs of Pokemon cards or Baseball cards is also "unlicensed gambling" and shouldn't be sold to minor... lmao Minors don`t get to use the CC in the real world. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Old-Republic-DVD/dp/B005DD6R6A/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1351165415&sr=1-1 This classifies SWTOR as PEGI 16. Thing is... you need to be older to gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Minors don`t get to use the CC in the real world. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Old-Republic-DVD/dp/B005DD6R6A/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1351165415&sr=1-1 This classifies SWTOR as PEGI 16. Thing is... you need to be older to gamble. it's not gambling and minors can use CCs... either if their parents cosign them or they are debit or pre-paid ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat-a-tat- Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) And any parent who allows their kids un monitored access to their credit cards needs to be slapped in the face. Any parent who gives their child a prepaid or a co signed credit card without talking to them about what it means and how it should be used should expect it to be maxed out. We see it all the time with 18 year olds, (and they can gamble) they get the pre approval in the mail are are in the debt for the next 10 years.I am sorry that a lot of you think this situation is inviting gambling into the home, but any parent today knows that we can't keep anything out of our homes without going Amish, or throwing out our tvs. I would like to see more "Hey parents step up and talk to your kids about money management" VS. Bw is corrupting our children threads I do not think the grab bags are gambling, The baseball card analogy is the best I have seen so far. I think this is a time for parents to step up and talk to their kids. teach them money management and responsibility. The same thing they have been doing since kids started playing Micro-transaction casual games like from zynga Edited October 25, 2012 by Brat-a-tat- Wanted to add more to my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 well by your logic buying packs of Pokemon cards or Baseball cards is also "unlicensed gambling" and shouldn't be sold to minor... lmao you guys can try to spin it and babble all the nonsense you want but buying an assortment package is not gambling... I got a bussiness proposal for you. I will let you pick ANY car in my car sales company. The more expensive, the better. For the most expensive ones, you get BETTER ODDS. Here`s the thing: you need to point the car you are willing to buy. You will make full payment for it. Then we random draw from all combinations of car names and numbers that are less or equal than the amount you paid. If it won`t match the sum and car make.. don`t worry. We`ll take your money and try again. How`s this for a sale? Should I book plane tickets for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I got a bussiness proposal for you. I will let you pick ANY car in my car sales company. The more expensive, the better. For the most expensive ones, you get BETTER ODDS. Here`s the thing: you need to point the car you are willing to buy. You will make full payment for it. Then we random draw from all combinations of car names and numbers that are less or equal than the amount you paid. If it won`t match the sum and car make.. don`t worry. We`ll take your money and try again. How`s this for a sale? Should I book plane tickets for you? horribly incorrect and stupid analogy is horribly incorrect and stupid Is English not your first language? ... you don't seem to grasp the concept of an assortment pack Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 horribly incorrect and stupid analogy is horrible incorrect and stupid Is English not your first language? So, will you answer if you take me up on my offer, or start calling me names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 So, will you answer if you take me up on my offer, or start calling me names? eh? not only did I not call you any names but your offer had absolutely nothing in common with anything being discussed so was completely arbitrary... why would I answer it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 eh? not only did I not call you any names but your offer had absolutely nothing in common with anything being discussed so was completely arbitrary... why would I answer it? It does have everything to do with it. It even has odds attached. Small odds, but you DO KNOW how to calculate. You see.. that car I am selling to you is the precise item I want in the boxes. The boxes are the car`s price The car maker + price tag "rolls" are the "chance" to get the said item or "car". But thank you for the answer You DID prove you won`t gamble in a similar scenario, where you can potentially lose. Which is strange, at least, since you are defending buying boxes for items, based on rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) It does have everything to do with it. It even has odds attached. Small odds, but you DO KNOW how to calculate. You see.. that car I am selling to you is the precise item I want in the boxes. The boxes are the car`s price The car maker + price tag "rolls" are the "chance" to get the said item or "car". But thank you for the answer You DID prove you won`t gamble in a similar scenario, where you can potentially lose. Which is strange, at least, since you are defending buying boxes for items, based on rolls. no... all that has been proven is that you don't understand the concept of gambling or assortment packs and are horrible at making analogies for that matter you don't seem to understand what proving something means since I didn't answer your odd analogy yet you seem to think I did and used said imaginary answer to "prove" something Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 no... all that has been proven is that you don't understand the concept of gambling or assortment packs and are horrible at making analogies for that matter you don't seem to understand what proving something means since I didn't answer your odd analogy yet you seem to think I did and used said imaginary answer to "prove" something I am beginning to suspect I am not the one not understanding gambling... Good luck buying many cars in the future is all I can say... Out of curiosity... why would you not buy the car I was talking about earlier? Color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I am beginning to suspect I am not the one not understanding gambling... Good luck buying many cars in the future is all I can say... Out of curiosity... why would you not buy the car I was talking about earlier? Color? I never said I would or wouldn't... you seem to like to imagine or make things up then continue a conversation as if they had really happened I still wanna know if English is your first language because it kind of seems like your talking to me through google translator Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I never said I would or wouldn't... you seem to like to imagine or make things up then continue a conversation as if they had really happened I still wanna know if English is your first language because it kind of seems like your talking to me through google translator Then answer me. Would you buy the said car under those conditions? Or you won`t? And why not? You`re trying to avoid the answer way too much for the solicitude of replying to all my posts. Edited October 25, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Then answer me. Would you buy the said car under those conditions? Or you won`t? And why not? You`re trying to avoid the answer way too much for the solicitude of replying to all my posts. I probably wouldn't but that's because your convoluted sales scheme was well stupid and poorly worded... not that it matters what my answer is because as I said that analogy not only made no rational sense but didn't relate to this discussion in any way shape or form Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I probably wouldn't but that's because your convoluted sales scheme was well stupid and poorly worded... not that it matters what my answer is because as I said that analogy not only made no rational sense but didn't relate to this discussion in any way shape or form 1. The box is the car showroom. 2. The loot is the actual cars 3. The "roll" is your chance of getting the said car. Say I want ONE armor piece(loot) and only one. I need to buy as many boxes for it to drop. It might drop everything else BUT what I am looking for - which isn`t really any use to me, is it? Where everything would have a price, I would pay for the armor piece(loot) and be done with it. But now I pay for a CHANCE of getting said armor, with undisclosed chance rate. It can be 99%, but it also can be 1%... in theory. Just like the slot machines = you DO get, in theory, 80% of your money back, but VERY FEW get the Jackpot. Edited October 25, 2012 by Styxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) 1. The box is the car showroom. 2. The loot is the actual cars 3. The "roll" is your chance of getting the said car. Say I want ONE armor piece(loot) and only one. I need to buy as many boxes for it to drop. It might drop everything else BUT what I am looking for - which isn`t really any use to me, is it? Where everything would have a price, I would pay for the armor piece(loot) and be done with it. But now I pay for a CHANCE of getting said armor, with undisclosed chance rate. It can be 99%, but it also can be 1%... in theory. Just like the slot machines = you DO get, in theory, 80% of your money back, but VERY FEW get the Jackpot. but you are not purchasing a specific car or item... you are very very specifically purchasing an assortment pack in the same way you purchase a pack of baseball cards... again trying to call grabbags gambling is like trying to call packs of Pokemon cards gambling... it's not... just because there is some random chance involved does not make it gambling... and in the same way with collectible cards you can let others buy the assortment packs and then just buy the specific items/cards you want from them if they want to sell it later... it's not a complex or hard to understand also saying you get 80 percent of your money back on a slot because there is an 80 percent chance to payout proves you have no understanding of probability Edited October 25, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat-a-tat- Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Say I want ONE armor piece(loot) and only one. I need to buy as many boxes for it to drop. It might drop everything else BUT what I am looking for - which isn`t really any use to me, is it? its called buy it with credits on the GTN, this stuff will be unbound 5 days after you open the box. I bet 5 days after the grab bags hit live you will be able to buy just what you want on the GTN for credits without every having to buy a box. Your point holds no water. I think a more correct analogy would be those machines you put quarters in to get the sticker you want. I may put 1 or 2 dollars in to get the sticker I want but not 50. Its called Self-Control. I know it is a crazy concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 but you are not purchasing a specific car or item... you are very very specifically purchasing an assortment pack in the same way you purchase a pack of baseball cards I don`t buy the boxes for the sake of buying them. I buy them for a SPECIFIC drop. Which specific drop is, in this case, a armor piece. Said armor piece might or might not show up in said box, based on undisclosed chance percentage. As opposed to going to the CC and pay a one time fee (at least you know the price) for said armor piece. and in the same way with collectible cards you can let others buy the assortment packs and then just buy the specific items/cards you want from them if they want to sell it later... it's not a complex or hard to understand What someone else sells is irrelevant. Just like the guys that sell their house for one more "lucky poker hand". also saying you get 80 percent of your money back on a slot because there is an 80 percent chance to payout proves you have no understanding of probability Didn`t I say "IN THEORY"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think a more correct analogy would be those machines you put quarters in to get the sticker you want. I may put 1 or 2 dollars in to get the sticker I want but not 50. And you know this.. because? Nobody knows the percentages and somehow I doubt EA will EVER show them. It can be 1 or 2 dollars, but it also can be 5000... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat-a-tat- Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Styxx did you read what I wrote at all? or are you to wrapped up in your argument with Liquidacid? Buy it on the GTN 5 days after they hit live and never buy a grab bag problem solved and yes my point about the sticker machines is you could clean the machines out and not get what you want. That is how those machines work. It still comes back to self control, money management, and life skills. If you don't have them you will have issues. This grab bag system is all over the place in RL and nobody goes broke if they exercise, Self-control, money management, and life skills. Edited October 25, 2012 by Brat-a-tat- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) well by your logic buying packs of Pokemon cards or Baseball cards is also "unlicensed gambling" and shouldn't be sold to minor... lmao you guys can try to spin it and babble all the nonsense you want but buying an assortment package is not gambling... Yeah it probably should be, but then that would be pretty difficult to legislate against when they stack the odds. I mean what psychological terms do you think trading cards sell on? Do you think that should be used on children? And do you think the companies selling them to children don't know this? Exploiting children, LYAO indeed. (this is in fact why strong advert regulation is so needed on kids TV) However in that context at least you have to buy it, you don't get the cards given then have to pay to see what they are. Edited October 25, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Styxx did you read what I wrote at all? or are you to wrapped up in your argument with Liquidacid? Buy it on the GTN 5 days after they hit live and never buy a grab bag problem solved It doesn`t make it any more right if the "other" guy has drawn 10 boxes for HIS desired item and happened to draw what I drew 10 boxes for and didn`t get. Because there is no guarantee HE got what he needed/wanted. And you are misunderstanding my position: I won`t spend a dime in their Cash Shop. That doesn`t mean I think it`s fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It doesn`t make it any more right if the "other" guy has drawn 10 boxes for HIS desired item and happened to draw what I drew 10 boxes for and didn`t get. Because there is no guarantee HE got what he needed/wanted. And you are misunderstanding my position: I won`t spend a dime in their Cash Shop. That doesn`t mean I think it`s fair. who cares... if you don't like it then don't buy the boxes... but the fact remains that legally and in every way that matters it's not gambling which is why they and so many many other companies in different fields are allowed to do it and ignore gambling laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 who cares... if you don't like it then don't buy the boxes... but the fact remains that legally and in every way that matters it's not gambling which is why they and so many many other companies in different fields are allowed to do it and ignore gambling laws As with your other assertion, I'm not sure it does, has this been legally challenged and deemed "not gambling"? As it's only been around for a few years not (for example for a long while you could pay point of sale tax on online items and no point of orgin tax, but after a few years that was closed up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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