Final Round: Nihilius vs Vitiate

[Ismercu]

In the Restored Content you get a looooong quest revolving around the Genoharadan, you go to Nar Shaadha to sort them out(Remember the door that went to nowhere? yeh that.) but the building you are in explodes, Sion and your party member sees this and they both believe you are dead(You aren't), so Sion goes to tell Nihilus what happened, as well as the fact that he tells him Traya is alive, to Nihilus' great dismay, Sion dies in doing so, the fact is, Kreia is dead and Atris assumes the mantel of Darth Traya in her place, after a long series of events (this was one major change to the overall last half of the game that never got put it), you find Revan on Malachor V, what Revan is like and what he does depends on what you state about him/her at the beginning.

 

One big change, THIS version of the cutscene is edited for the Restored Content 1.8 mod, because Sion isn't dead for the rest of the story and instead he leaves.

 

Thought-provoking.

[Aurbere]

Honestly I think a lot of these opinions on Nihilus are formed through the fact he was quite an easy boss battle, well if that is the case, I think we need another 101 on canon, because gameplay mechanics have nothing at all to do with the actual story.

 

I didn't find the boss battle easy on my Jedi Master. I actually have an easier time with him on my Watchman.

 

Anyway, I agree. I would actually start a thread discussing gameplay in a vs. match as well as feats. Especially with Vitiate where he doesn't have the power to devour planets. He did so with a ritual, but apparently it's the same as doing it to satisfy your hunger.

[Aurbere]

Big deal, there was a chance to kill him and had she taken it, she would have killed him.

 

Vader had a chance to kill the Palpatine and he did, are you saying Vader was more powerful than Palpatine because he threw him down an elevator shaft? Lol.

 

As for the ritual bit, I think the fact that it was a ritual makes it even more plausible that the Sith Emperor had a defense. The fact that it's a ritual means there's more specifics to the process. Take Revan's hologram for example, Bane wrote notes about Revan's rituals on paper. Knowing the process of a power means there's a more likely chance of inventing a counter, and with the Sith Emperor's power, I really don't think Nihilus is going to be able to "eat him". You can disagree all you want, but you're not going to sway me. It's quite dumb that in all of these "vs matchups" that Nihilus gets an auto win even when pitted against some of the most talented and immersed opponents in the force of all time.

 

In order to counter Nihilus' ability you have to know how to counter it. In this match-up we have to go off of the knowledge we have of both of them. And we have no knowledge of Vitiate's ability to resist Nihilus. That means Nihilus wins. There's no facts saying he can or cannot resist Nihilus so we have to go off of the premise that he cannot.

[DarthBandeth]

In order to counter Nihilus' ability you have to know how to counter it. In this match-up we have to go off of the knowledge we have of both of them. And we have no knowledge of Vitiate's ability to resist Nihilus. That means Nihilus wins. There's no facts saying he can or cannot resist Nihilus so we have to go off of the premise that he cannot.

 

That's like saying "we have no knowledge that Mace Windu will block this lightsaber attack, therefore Qui-Gon Jinn wins".

 

You're quite right that we have to go off of the knowledge we have of both of them, and I know that Vitiate preformed a ritual to consume an entire planet, VERY SIMILAR to Nihilus's power.

 

You're assuming that he cannot defend against it, and I am assuming he can. That doesn't make you automatically right because he's never been put to the test in defending against it before. I'm merely taking what we know about him and applying my own thoughts about what he can and can't do, which is what the purpose of this thread is.

[Aurbere]

That's like saying "we have no knowledge that Mace Windu will block this lightsaber attack, therefore Qui-Gon Jinn wins".

 

You're quite right that we have to go off of the knowledge we have of both of them, and I know that Vitiate preformed a ritual to consume an entire planet, VERY SIMILAR to Nihilus's power.

 

You're assuming that he cannot defend against it, and I am assuming he can. That doesn't make you automatically right because he's never been put to the test in defending against it before. I'm merely taking what we know about him and applying my own thoughts about what he can and can't do, which is what the purpose of this thread is.

 

It's completely different. A lightsaber duel is completely different from a Force duel. A Lightsaber attack is easily blocked with your own Lightsaber and, being the master duelist that he is, Mace would obviously block it. The Force is completely different. You have to know the power inside out and then learn to counter it. The ritual is completely different from Nihilus' power. Nihilus' power is his own. What Vitiate does is a ritual which means he has little to no knowledge of what the ritual does on a Force basis. All he knows is that it drains people's life force and adds it to his own. He has no knowledge of the power that Nihilus uses as it is a mix of Sever Force and Drain Life. Can Vitiate use Sever Force? I don't think so. Can he use Drain Life? Not to my knowledge.

[DarthBandeth]

It's completely different. A lightsaber duel is completely different from a Force duel. A Lightsaber attack is easily blocked with your own Lightsaber and, being the master duelist that he is, Mace would obviously block it. The Force is completely different. You have to know the power inside out and then learn to counter it. The ritual is completely different from Nihilus' power. Nihilus' power is his own. What Vitiate does is a ritual which means he has little to no knowledge of what the ritual does on a Force basis. All he knows is that it drains people's life force and adds it to his own. He has no knowledge of the power that Nihilus uses as it is a mix of Sever Force and Drain Life. Can Vitiate use Sever Force? I don't think so. Can he use Drain Life? Not to my knowledge.

 

"He then used their combined power to perform the most complex ritual of Sith magic ever performed, ripping the Force from the entire planet of Nathema and absorbing the combined life-force of every living thing on the surface. Lord Scourge suspected that the Emperor had not only absorbed the lives of those who had died in the ritual, but was in fact feeding off of their spirits to sustain his own throughout the centuries that followed."

 

 

"As Emperor, he spent much of his rule experimenting even further with the dark side, discovering many lost techniques and increasing his immense power even more."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor

 

Sorry, there's no way he has absolutely no knowledge of draining life/force from people.

 

You're also forgetting the Sith Emperor can spread his consciousness into several beings, who's to say Nihilus won't attempt to drain one part of the Emperor's consciousness while being stabbed by another Child of the Emperor?

[Rayla_Felana]

Big deal, there was a chance to kill him and had she taken it, she would have killed him.

 

Vader had a chance to kill the Palpatine and he did, are you saying Vader was more powerful than Palpatine because he threw him down an elevator shaft? Lol.

 

As for the ritual bit, I think the fact that it was a ritual makes it even more plausible that the Sith Emperor had a defense. The fact that it's a ritual means there's more specifics to the process. Take Revan's hologram for example, Bane wrote notes about Revan's rituals on paper. Knowing the process of a power means there's a more likely chance of inventing a counter, and with the Sith Emperor's power, I really don't think Nihilus is going to be able to "eat him". You can disagree all you want, but you're not going to sway me. It's quite dumb that in all of these "vs matchups" that Nihilus gets an auto win even when pitted against some of the most talented and immersed opponents in the force of all time.

 

You missed the point apparently, She threw it with such effect that the Emperor couldn't see or hear or even sense it coming at him, when it instead knock the lightsaber out of his hand he was literally surprised and was scared because he had no idea what his opponent was capable of, any other time he'd have seen it coming a mile off and just batted it away, he didn't and luckily for him, she chose to save Revan instead of killing him, not quite the same as lifting someone up from behind and chucking them down a shaft.

 

But the ritual the Emperor performed wasn't the same as Nihilus' power, what Nihilus does is devour all life and force power from something and destroys it, it doesn't make him immortal or more powerful, it just fills the Wound he carries, which is ever growing, just like Malachor V which we know from the novel was entirely different to Nathema.

 

Your assumption is debunked by facts.

[Aurbere]

"He then used their combined power to perform the most complex ritual of Sith magic ever performed, ripping the Force from the entire planet of Nathema and absorbing the combined life-force of every living thing on the surface. Lord Scourge suspected that the Emperor had not only absorbed the lives of those who had died in the ritual, but was in fact feeding off of their spirits to sustain his own throughout the centuries that followed."

 

 

"As Emperor, he spent much of his rule experimenting even further with the dark side, discovering many lost techniques and increasing his immense power even more."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor

 

Sorry, there's no way he has absolutely no knowledge of draining life/force from people.

 

You're also forgetting the Sith Emperor can spread his consciousness into several beings, who's to say Nihilus won't attempt to drain one part of the Emperor's consciousness while being stabbed by another Child of the Emperor?

 

As Rayla said, Nihilus doesn't use it to increase his power or longevity, he uses it to satisfy his hunger. What the ritual does is drain the power and life of the planet and its inhabitants and adds it to the user. It is not the same as what Nihilus does at all. Nihilus uses and mixture (advanced at that) of Sever Force and Drain Life. Basically destroying the planet, but not supplementing his power. The Sith Emperor is more familiar with Drain Force and Drain Life. Even if he could counter the Drain Life part of Nihilus' power, he would still get cut off from the Force. This would effectively kill Vitiate because he relies on that power to survive.

 

EDIT: Note that I use Sever Force and drain Life to catagorize Nihilus' power. It is not the same as these powers though. What Nihilus does is something similar, but it is not the same. They are the only techniques that I can categorize that power to.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Aurbere

[Rayla_Felana]

"He then used their combined power to perform the most complex ritual of Sith magic ever performed, ripping the Force from the entire planet of Nathema and absorbing the combined life-force of every living thing on the surface. Lord Scourge suspected that the Emperor had not only absorbed the lives of those who had died in the ritual, but was in fact feeding off of their spirits to sustain his own throughout the centuries that followed."

 

 

"As Emperor, he spent much of his rule experimenting even further with the dark side, discovering many lost techniques and increasing his immense power even more."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor

 

Sorry, there's no way he has absolutely no knowledge of draining life/force from people.

 

You're also forgetting the Sith Emperor can spread his consciousness into several beings, who's to say Nihilus won't attempt to drain one part of the Emperor's consciousness while being stabbed by another Child of the Emperor?

 

Again you don't get it, Nihilus and Malachor V and the Exile for that matter, are a completely different case, they have NOTHING in common with anything else, it was a very rare occasion that happened only once.

 

The MSG caused the death of so many force users that it literally tore a wound in the force open, it was more like a black hole than just another draining Dark Side ability, it is not the same, it is not of the Dark Side, even the Jedi Council knew that, it was something different, nothing ever heard of before, it was something that killed the force and slowly devoured it.

 

Malachor V was one big explosion that sent out echos, Nihilus was the largest of these because he was like a travelling Black Hole in the force that couldn't be stopped by the force because he just devoured it, making no differentiation between Light and Dark.

 

Do not try to attempt to state that they are anything alike, Vitiate stripped the power and the force from a planet and it's inhabitants and devoured it, to make himself immortal and give him exponentially more power, Nihilus was a moving black hole in the force that devoured and destroyed everything in it's path.

[Aurbere]

Again you don't get it, Nihilus and Malachor V and the Exile for that matter, are a completely different case, they have NOTHING in common with anything else, it was a very rare occasion that happened only once.

 

The MSG caused the death of so many force users that it literally tore a wound in the force open, it was more like a black hole than just another draining Dark Side ability, it is not the same, it is not of the Dark Side, even the Jedi Council knew that, it was something different, nothing ever heard of before, it was something that killed the force and slowly devoured it.

 

Malachor V was one big explosion that sent out echos, Nihilus was the largest of these because he was like a travelling Black Hole in the force that couldn't be stopped by the force because he just devoured it, making no differentiation between Light and Dark.

 

Do not try to attempt to state that they are anything alike, Vitiate stripped the power and the force from a planet and it's inhabitants and devoured it, to make himself immortal and give him exponentially more power, Nihilus was a moving black hole in the force that devoured and destroyed everything in it's path.

 

I actually refer Nihilus to a walking Death Star, but Black Hole is good too.

[Beniboybling]

Not going to quote everyone here so I'm just going to go ahead a say stuff (by the way I'm kind of being Devil's advocate here, I'm still undecided on this fight)

 

You say Vitiate is heavily reliant of preparations and rituals for a great deal of his power. And probably would argue that his power isn't as pure as say, Sidious. But I would disagree, Vitiate doesn't get his power from Sith magic, he creates Sith magic using his power - it all comes from him. Yes this still needs time to prepare but Vitiate has been alive for over a 1000 years, I reckon he exists in a state of constant readiness, as he has been effectively 'preparing' all his life. There is no weaker or surprised state Nihilus can catch him in.

 

Nihilus on the other hand, is in fact incredibly dependent on preparation, he was skilled in powerful Sith techniques but his strength was limited and needed to be constantly replenished through feeding on the force. That's why he seeks out force sensitive worlds and is damaged by 'dead' worlds and 'wounds in the force' because their is nothing for him to feed on. He could not simply 'drop out of hyperspace' and go, he had to replenish his health in some way. Arguably in a prolonged battle, one he had not properly prepared for, he would eventually run out of energy. Yes he could 'feed' of Vitiate, or even devour the planet. But Vitiate was a complete master of Sith magic and I expect, very skilled in foresight, maybe he had never encountered a being such as Nihilus before but I'm sure he would be able to defend against it in some form and would certainly see him coming (giving him time to consolidate his power anyway)

 

We also have to considered whether Vitiate could use sever force on Nihilus, yes he is a gaping black hole in the force, but in order to stay alive he has to draw on the force, or devour it. If Vitiate could sever this connection he could effectively kill Nihilus.

 

I think Vitiates dependence on rituals can be ruled out as a negative, as can the element of surprise. What Nihilus does have going for him is his ability to devour the force, but Vitiate could probably defend against that in some way (even by essence transfer if need be) I think this would come down to a pure display of force power, which we haven't really discussed. Ruling out force drain, devour, sever force etc. Who is more powerful in the dark side e.g. force lightning - Vitiate or Nihilus?

[Rayla_Felana]

Vitiate does have to prepare, when Revan, Surik, Scourge and T3 burst into his throne room he was taken aback and got knocked on his behind and only had his force lightning to count on to fight back with, the same thing has happened repeatedly.

 

When he wanted to perform the ritual, he had to summon 200 Sith Lords to actively aid him in performing this ritual and gaining this power, he tricked them and claimed this would give the Sith more power, he was right, but they didn't realise by Sith, he meant himself, and they all were devoured as well.

 

Nihilus is not the type of thing that requires preparation or anything of the sort, it is his natural instinct to devour, on the spot, Kreia uses this to trick Nihilus into feeding off of the dead world of Telos IV, if Nihilus drops out of hyperspace above Dromund Kaas and senses an all you can eat buffet of Sith, do you really think he's going to bother with a battle or anything like that? no, he'll just devour everything on and around the planet, until everything is dead, he did exactly that when Katarr basically became a homing beacon because the Jedi tried to find out what it was that was killing them, they couldn't sense it, they didn't even know it was there till they all felt his draining power.

 

Vitiate wouldn't sense him or anything of the sort, because there is nothing to sense, when the Jedi Masters spoke of these Sith striking from the shadows, they weren't using the term literally, they simply could not sense him at all through the force, they just knew they were being killed by it, nothing more.

 

Vitiate has no way of defending against this power, the Jedi Order didn't, clearly the Obsidian writers were going to show the same thing for Sion, no one could stop him, apart from his polar opposite, the one whose wound in the force actually gave power to those she bonded with, she expelled her power, but when Nihilus tried to feed on her, there was nothing but the wound to feed on, because he wasn't bonded with her, so it practically dealt the fatal blow.

 

Vitiate just cannot beat something he has no comprehension or knowledge of, you and others state that Vitiate spent over a thousand years studying the Dark Side of the Force, tell me, how could that prepare him at all for something that just eats the force, but is not a true part of it.

 

The Jedi on Katarr tried to use their combined power in a variation of the Wall of Light, it did nothing, and they along with almost the entire Miraluka race and the planet Katarr itself, was devoured and they died, there was only one survivor and she became his apprentice.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Aurbere]

Not going to quote everyone here so I'm just going to go ahead a say stuff (by the way I'm kind of being Devil's advocate here, I'm still undecided on this fight)

 

You say Vitiate is heavily reliant of preparations and rituals for a great deal of his power. And probably would argue that his power isn't as pure as say, Sidious. But I would disagree, Vitiate doesn't get his power from Sith magic, he creates Sith magic using his power - it all comes from him. Yes this still needs time to prepare but Vitiate has been alive for over a 1000 years, I reckon he exists in a state of constant readiness, as he has been effectively 'preparing' all his life. There is no weaker or surprised state Nihilus can catch him in.

 

Nihilus on the other hand, is in fact incredibly dependent on preparation, he was skilled in powerful Sith techniques but his strength was limited and needed to be constantly replenished through feeding on the force. That's why he seeks out force sensitive worlds and is damaged by 'dead' worlds and 'wounds in the force' because their is nothing for him to feed on. He could not simply 'drop out of hyperspace' and go, he had to replenish his health in some way. Arguably in a prolonged battle, one he had not properly prepared for, he would eventually run out of energy. Yes he could 'feed' of Vitiate, or even devour the planet. But Vitiate was a complete master of Sith magic and I expect, very skilled in foresight, maybe he had never encountered a being such as Nihilus before but I'm sure he would be able to defend against it in some form and would certainly see him coming (giving him time to consolidate his power anyway)

 

We also have to considered whether Vitiate could use sever force on Nihilus, yes he is a gaping black hole in the force, but in order to stay alive he has to draw on the force, or devour it. If Vitiate could sever this connection he could effectively kill Nihilus.

 

I think Vitiates dependence on rituals can be ruled out as a negative, as can the element of surprise. What Nihilus does have going for him is his ability to devour the force, but Vitiate could probably defend against that in some way (even by essence transfer if need be) I think this would come down to a pure display of force power, which we haven't really discussed. Ruling out force drain, devour, sever force etc. Who is more powerful in the dark side e.g. force lightning - Vitiate or Nihilus?

 

Normally I would agree with you on that. However, we can't do that here with Nihilus. His power is his trademark. He is the Lord of Hunger, it sets him apart from everyone else. It's like having a battle with Mace and Sion, but Mace can't use Vaapad. That's his trademark.

 

Anyway, what Rayla said.

 

And to answer your question, Vitiate is more powerful in the Dark Side. BUT!! I could not stress this anymore. Nihilus is not of the Dark Side. He is something else. He destroys everything in his path. Sith or Jedi. None are safe from his power. Nihilus is a Black Hole in the Force. Something like the Vong only he would devour all things of the Force. This includes Vitiate.

[MasterMe]

1: You guys keep displaying it as if it's CANON that Nihilius would win this fight. The truth is, we don't know. So quit acting as if it's set in stone.

 

2: Answer this: It took Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, and another companion to beat Nihilius. It took Meetra Surik, Revan, and Scourge to even mount an assault on the Emperor (they likely would have won if not for the backstabbing).

 

3: You guys keep saying that Vitiate has nothing on Nihilius. You're logic says "If we haven't seen him use certain powers then it's obvious that he can't." Vitiate has studied the force for over a THOUSAND years if I'm correct, so I would imagine that he'd have several ways to counter anything and everything that Nihilius had to throw his way.

 

4: Yes, Vitiate has gained substantial power through rituals. But what makes you guys think that the rituals are his only means of destruction? The novel seems to imply that these rituals give him great strength in the force to be used later. Also don't forget that he was a very powerful being before the rituals.

 

Why is it that you two seem so biased against everything in the Revan novel? First you refused to believe that Revan is significantly powerful, now Vitiate? I get it that you think Nihilius is more powerful, but you guys are almost saying that Vitiate is nothing, which is not true at all.

[MasterMe]

Vitiate does have to prepare, when Revan, Surik, Scourge and T3 burst into his throne room he was taken aback and got knocked on his behind and only had his force lightning to count on to fight back with, the same thing has happened repeatedly.

 

When he wanted to perform the ritual, he had to summon 200 Sith Lords to actively aid him in performing this ritual and gaining this power, he tricked them and claimed this would give the Sith more power, he was right, but they didn't realise by Sith, he meant himself, and they all were devoured as well.

 

Nihilus is not the type of thing that requires preparation or anything of the sort, it is his natural instinct to devour, on the spot, Kreia uses this to trick Nihilus into feeding off of the dead world of Telos IV, if Nihilus drops out of hyperspace above Dromund Kaas and senses an all you can eat buffet of Sith, do you really think he's going to bother with a battle or anything like that? no, he'll just devour everything on and around the planet, until everything is dead, he did exactly that when Katarr basically became a homing beacon because the Jedi tried to find out what it was that was killing them, they couldn't sense it, they didn't even know it was there till they all felt his draining power.

 

Vitiate wouldn't sense him or anything of the sort, because there is nothing to sense, when the Jedi Masters spoke of these Sith striking from the shadows, they weren't using the term literally, they simply could not sense him at all through the force, they just knew they were being killed by it, nothing more.

 

Vitiate has no way of defending against this power, the Jedi Order didn't, clearly the Obsidian writers were going to show the same thing for Sion, no one could stop him, apart from his polar opposite, the one whose wound in the force actually gave power to those she bonded with, she expelled her power, but when Nihilus tried to feed on her, there was nothing but the wound to feed on, because he wasn't bonded with her, so it practically dealt the fatal blow.

 

Vitiate just cannot beat something he has no comprehension or knowledge of, you and others state that Vitiate spent over a thousand years studying the Dark Side of the Force, tell me, how could that prepare him at all for something that just eats the force, but is not a true part of it.

 

The Jedi on Katarr tried to use their combined power in a variation of the Wall of Light, it did nothing, and they along with almost the entire Miraluka race and the planet Katarr itself, was devoured and they died, there was only one survivor and she became his apprentice.

 

You imply that Vitiate has no knowledge of anything similar to Nihilius. If this is what you think then you have zero knowledge of the Revan novel. Vitiate created a wound in the force (the planet Nathema I believe). His knowledge of such things is considerable. Canon.

[Aurbere]

1: You guys keep displaying it as if it's CANON that Nihilius would win this fight. The truth is, we don't know. So quit acting as if it's set in stone.

 

2: Answer this: It took Meetra Surik, Visas Marr, and another companion to beat Nihilius. It took Meetra Surik, Revan, and Scourge to even mount an assault on the Emperor (they likely would have won if not for the backstabbing).

 

3: You guys keep saying that Vitiate has nothing on Nihilius. You're logic says "If we haven't seen him use certain powers then it's obvious that he can't." Vitiate has studied the force for over a THOUSAND years if I'm correct, so I would imagine that he'd have several ways to counter anything and everything that Nihilius had to throw his way.

 

4: Yes, Vitiate has gained substantial power through rituals. But what makes you guys think that the rituals are his only means of destruction? The novel seems to imply that these rituals give him great strength in the force to be used later. Also don't forget that he was a very powerful being before the rituals.

 

Why is it that you two seem so biased against everything in the Revan novel? First you refused to believe that Revan is significantly powerful, now Vitiate? I get it that you think Nihilius is more powerful, but you guys are almost saying that Vitiate is nothing, which is not true at all.

 

1. No it's not canon, but it is true after gathering all of the facts.

 

2. Meetra and Nihilus are wounds in the Force. When Nihilus attempted to usse his power on Meetra, it backfired and signifcantly weakened him. This is not the case for the Emperor.

 

3. What Nihilus does is not of the Force. It is something that you cannot defend against. It destroys all life in an instant. Even the Wall of Light could not stop him.

 

4. Rituals are his only means of pulling off that which Nihilus does just by being. He was powerful before the rituals, but even after the rituals he can't beat Nihilus. There is nothing Vitiate can do to protect himself from Nihilus' power.

 

The Revan novel (if it can be called that) was poorly done. What happens in the novel isn't the greatest, but I still accept it as canon. We, Rayla especially, merely shed light on the many misconceptions brought about by the novel.

[Rayla_Felana]

You imply that Vitiate has no knowledge of anything similar to Nihilius. If this is what you think then you have zero knowledge of the Revan novel. Vitiate created a wound in the force (the planet Nathema I believe). His knowledge of such things is considerable. Canon.

 

/Facepalm.

 

You know the ritual that he used to become immortal and gain more power? THAT WAS ON NATHEMA! it was NOTHING like Malachor V, YOU need to read the novel, not me.

 

It is described in detail that Surik had never felt anything like it when she was there.

 

What Vitiate does is strip away force power to make himself more powerful through a ritual, what Nihilus does is just devour everything around him, regardless of what type, it destroys it, it is his never-ending hunger.

 

Honest to god do I need to spell it out for you anymore than I have in the last three posts.

 

What Nihilus does is entirely different, it isn't of the force, you can't use some random force technique to block it, he EATS THE FORCE, he is not of the force, he is a black hole that devours any force energy around him.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[MasterMe]

/Facepalm.

 

You know the ritual that he used to become immortal and gain more power? THAT WAS ON NATHEMA! it was NOTHING like Malachor V, YOU need to read the novel, not me.

 

It is described in detail that Surik had never felt anything like it when she was there.

 

What Vitiate does is strip away force power to make himself more powerful through a ritual, what Nihilus does is just devour everything around him, regardless of what type, it destroys it, it is his never-ending hunger.

 

Honest to god do I need to spell it out for you anymore than I have in the last three posts.

 

What Nihilus does is entirely different, it isn't of the force, you can't use some random force technique to block it, he EATS THE FORCE, he is not of the force, he is a black hole that devours any force energy around him.

 

BTW I own the novel.

 

I'll grant you Nihilius's power, and I get it that he eats the force and that he's not of the force and all that.

 

It was EXACTLY like Malachor V! The extreme loss of life in a small area (being a planet) causes a wound in the force, or a black hole if that's what you want. I swear in all the posts I've ever read, I've never heard something so ridiculous as saying that Malachor V and Nathema or nothing alike. That is SOOO against canon. Seriously, would somebody who's unbiased back me up here? To say that these things are totally unalike is bogus!

 

Also, if you guys think Nihlius is as powerful as you say, then I guess you also believe that he could beat Luke or Sidious?

[Aurbere]

Also, if you guys think Nihlius is as powerful as you say, then I guess you also believe that he could beat Luke or Sidious?

 

Well he can't beat Sidious because Sidious is the most powerful Sith to ever exist. I don't know about Luke though. Rayla would be better to answer that.

[MasterMe]

1. No it's not canon, but it is true after gathering all of the facts.

 

2. Meetra and Nihilus are wounds in the Force. When Nihilus attempted to usse his power on Meetra, it backfired and signifcantly weakened him. This is not the case for the Emperor.

 

3. What Nihilus does is not of the Force. It is something that you cannot defend against. It destroys all life in an instant. Even the Wall of Light could not stop him.

 

4. Rituals are his only means of pulling off that which Nihilus does just by being. He was powerful before the rituals, but even after the rituals he can't beat Nihilus. There is nothing Vitiate can do to protect himself from Nihilus' power.

 

The Revan novel (if it can be called that) was poorly done. What happens in the novel isn't the greatest, but I still accept it as canon. We, Rayla especially, merely shed light on the many misconceptions brought about by the novel.

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that these misconceptions could (and are) be coming from you two? What makes your word law? I swear you guys act as if your all-knowing on this subject but the fact is you're biased. You yourselves are guilty of a few misconceptions concerning the book. I'm guessing this comes from a hatred for Revan and all things related to him.

 

I'm going to do my upmost to never again engage in a Revan novel related discussion with either of you. It's too painful.

[MasterMe]

Well he can't beat Sidious because Sidious is the most powerful Sith to ever exist. I don't know about Luke though. Rayla would be better to answer that.

 

Why can't he beat Sidious? If he's as powerful as you say and is not "of the force" then what does Sidious have to throw his way.

 

I'm not saying that he could beat Sidious. I'm just exposing your flawed logic.

[Aurbere]

Did you ever consider the possibility that these misconceptions could (and are) be coming from you two? What makes your word law? I swear you guys act as if your all-knowing on this subject but the fact is you're biased. You yourselves are guilty of a few misconceptions concerning the book. I'm guessing this comes from a hatred for Revan and all things related to him.

 

I'm going to do my upmost to never again engage in a Revan novel related discussion with either of you. It's too painful.

 

We aren't saying that our word is law. Canon is. And canonically, Nihilus is far more powerful than Vitiate.

 

I don't like getting into Revan discussions either. All I'm going to say is that I DO NOT hate Revan. I like the character, but I hate what his fanboys have turned him into.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Aurbere

[Aurbere]

Why can't he beat Sidious? If he's as powerful as you say and is not "of the force" then what does Sidious have to throw his way.

 

I'm not saying that he could beat Sidious. I'm just exposing your flawed logic.

 

Like I said, Rayla is better to answer that.

[Rayla_Felana]

Why can't he beat Sidious? If he's as powerful as you say and is not "of the force" then what does Sidious have to throw his way.

 

I'm not saying that he could beat Sidious. I'm just exposing your flawed logic.

 

Because Sidious became like Nihilus, when he died and transferred his essence, his power kept growing and growing, he HAD to devour the 16 billion population on Byss for awhile because he needed to, his clone bodies kept dying on him, his power was killing him, he was basically going through what Nihilus went through to become what he did, albeit in a separate manner, but the difference between the two is that Sidious could partially control this, Nihilus couldn't, he actually learned how to stop himself from being devoured by it to, to stop becoming like the monster Nihilus was, he kept his personality and state of mind, albeit he couldn't fully control his powers altogether hence his excessive outbursts of power.

[Rayla_Felana]

BTW I own the novel.

 

I'll grant you Nihilius's power, and I get it that he eats the force and that he's not of the force and all that.

 

It was EXACTLY like Malachor V! The extreme loss of life in a small area (being a planet) causes a wound in the force, or a black hole if that's what you want. I swear in all the posts I've ever read, I've never heard something so ridiculous as saying that Malachor V and Nathema or nothing alike. That is SOOO against canon. Seriously, would somebody who's unbiased back me up here? To say that these things are totally unalike is bogus!

 

Also, if you guys think Nihlius is as powerful as you say, then I guess you also believe that he could beat Luke or Sidious?

 

Did you even read the section when the Exile went to Nathema after she found out where it was? where she ALMOST DIED JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS THERE, unlike Malachor V where she strolled along tralalala and wiped out the Trayus Academy.

 

Spot the difference? there effects may be similar, but they are NOT the same thing as you are suggesting, Vitiate did not have knowledge on wounds in the force and would not know how to stop himself and everything else around him from being chomped on.