Final Round: Nihilius vs Vitiate

[Beniboybling]

Seeing as the servers have crashed, I decided I may as well roll out Round 5. I declare Round 4 (Darth Traya vs Plagueis) a draw.

 

But now, for the Final Round: Darth Nihilus vs Lord Vitiate (AKA The Emperor). Oooh, tense!

 

Both Nihilus and Vitiate were extremely powerful Sith lords who both were responsible for many deaths. In particular they have both consumed entire planets to increase their power. But who is the greater devourer?

 

Darth Nihilius had the power to devour entire worlds just by speaking and wrench starships into orbit. He fought with an aggressive style of lightsaber combat but his greatest skills lay in his mastery of the dark side and ability to feed of the life of others, sever them from the force and destroy all he touched.

 

Lord Vitiate was Emperor of the resurgent Sith Empire and possessed immense strength in the Force. He became one of the most powerful practitioners of Sith magic and alchemy and could dominate the minds of his enemies and well as consume all life on a planet.

 

These are two of the most powerful Sith lords, who ever lived, masters of consumption and destruction and feared by all.

 

Who would win?

[Rayla_Felana]

It's obvious that whenever the Emperor attempts to use his MOAB he needs to either have a ton of time or use that ritual again, or he could drain people at will whenever he wants, so I think(couldn't overstate think) that such an ability is not something that could be used here, same can't be said for Nihilus who devours anyone he can, at varying degrees of strength, I honestly don't see any reason that Nihilus couldn't just eat him on the spot, he has nothing protecting him.

[Beniboybling]

It's obvious that whenever the Emperor attempts to use his MOAB he needs to either have a ton of time or use that ritual again, or he could drain people at will whenever he wants, so I think(couldn't overstate think) that such an ability is not something that could be used here, same can't be said for Nihilus who devours anyone he can, at varying degrees of strength, I honestly don't see any reason that Nihilus couldn't just eat him on the spot, he has nothing protecting him.

 

He didn't eat Meetra, so their must be some way to defend against his power.

[Rayla_Felana]

He didn't eat Meetra, so their must be some way to defend against his power.

 

Wrong, he tried to eat Meetra, but it backfired and he devoured a dead spot in the force(She is a Wound in the Force like him), it weakened him severely, to the point the Exile could kill him.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Aurbere]

I gotta say, I think Nihilus has this one. He doesn't even have to face him in battle. Just float the Ravager above Dromund Kaas and devour him from the safety of his ship. If they did face eachother in battle, it's still the same. Nihilus wins. The Emperor always needs time or a ritual to do the whole drain thing. Nihilus does it just by thinking it. He has it in the bag.

[Rayla_Felana]

 

That may be cut content, but it's clear the type of power Obsidian were trying to convey for him.

 

(BTW, in the original cutscene Sion's dead and doesn't get up, this is edited slightly to fit in with the story, it's in the unrestored content where Atris is Traya and the ending is completely different with Revan at the end.)

[Ismercu]

 

That may be cut content, but it's clear the type of power Obsidian were trying to convey for him.

 

(BTW, in the original cutscene Sion's dead and doesn't get up, this is edited slightly to fit in with the story, it's in the unrestored content where Atris is Traya and the ending is completely different with Revan at the end.)

 

Ive seen that cutscene but any chance you could link me to something that explains the origical cutscene you mentioned or perhaps tell me in a PM when you get the chance. Thanks.

[MasterMe]

Vitiate for the win. In terms of story, Vitiate is the reigning bad guy behind the scenes of KOTOR. With that in mind, I doubt that Bioware/Lucas arts/Obsidian were trying to say that Nihilius was more powerful then Vitiate. See what I'm saying? I just think it would be really anti-climactic for Nihilius to be stronger.

 

Also, Vitiate has lived MUCH longer then Nihilius so I imagine he would have had more knowledge of the darkside.

 

Both of these guys are really similar though.

[Beniboybling]

 

That may be cut content, but it's clear the type of power Obsidian were trying to convey for him.

 

(BTW, in the original cutscene Sion's dead and doesn't get up, this is edited slightly to fit in with the story, it's in the unrestored content where Atris is Traya and the ending is completely different with Revan at the end.)

 

Lol, he just blasts him dead then turns back around

 

But even so, the Emperor shows similar display of power

(skip to about 3:00) If anything it is more impressive.

[Rayla_Felana]

Ive seen that cutscene but any chance you could link me to something that explains the origical cutscene you mentioned or perhaps tell me in a PM when you get the chance. Thanks.

 

In the Restored Content you get a looooong quest revolving around the Genoharadan, you go to Nar Shaadha to sort them out(Remember the door that went to nowhere? yeh that.) but the building you are in explodes, Sion and your party member sees this and they both believe you are dead(You aren't), so Sion goes to tell Nihilus what happened, as well as the fact that he tells him Traya is alive, to Nihilus' great dismay, Sion dies in doing so, the fact is, Kreia is dead and Atris assumes the mantel of Darth Traya in her place, after a long series of events (this was one major change to the overall last half of the game that never got put it), you find Revan on Malachor V, what Revan is like and what he does depends on what you state about him/her at the beginning.

 

One big change, THIS version of the cutscene is edited for the Restored Content 1.8 mod, because Sion isn't dead for the rest of the story and instead he leaves.

[Rayla_Felana]

Lol, he just blasts him dead then turns back around

 

But even so, the Emperor shows similar display of power

(skip to about 3:00) If anything it is more impressive.

 

He shows a great display of Force Storm that knocks them out, he doesn't devour them to death with his mind.

[Rayla_Felana]

Vitiate for the win. In terms of story, Vitiate is the reigning bad guy behind the scenes of KOTOR. With that in mind, I doubt that Bioware/Lucas arts/Obsidian were trying to say that Nihilius was more powerful then Vitiate. See what I'm saying? I just think it would be really anti-climactic for Nihilius to be stronger.

 

Also, Vitiate has lived MUCH longer then Nihilius so I imagine he would have had more knowledge of the darkside.

 

Both of these guys are really similar though.

 

In terms of story, Nihilus isn't Sith, he isn't even a Dark Jedi, he's a force version of a Black Hole, that can only be destroyed by feeding off of something that has no force energy or is simply dead to the Force: A.K.A Telos IV and the Exile.

[Beniboybling]

In terms of story, Nihilus isn't Sith, he isn't even a Dark Jedi, he's a force version of a Black Hole, that can only be destroyed by feeding off of something that has no force energy or is simply dead to the Force: A.K.A Telos IV and the Exile.

 

So that is why Meetra could defeat him in battle. This puts a different spin on the argument, even so, Meetra was a 'wound in the force' like Nihilus, and yet she was killed by Lord Scourge. So is Nihilus unkillable? He is a greater wound in the force that Meetra, far greater, but ultimately Vitiate is a very powerful being would could overcome this barrier.

 

They're is also the chance he could use 'sever force' as the Jedi masters attempted to do the Meetra as they saw it as the only way of stopping her. By severing Nihilus from the force he would cease to be a wound and could be destroyed - thats sort of speculation though.

[Rayla_Felana]

So that is why Meetra could defeat him in battle. This puts a different spin on the argument, even so, Meetra was a 'wound in the force' like Nihilus, and yet she was killed by Lord Scourge. So is Nihilus unkillable? He is a greater wound in the force that Meetra, far greater, but ultimately Vitiate is a very powerful being would could overcome this barrier.

 

They're is also the chance he could use 'sever force' as the Jedi masters attempted to do the Meetra as they saw it as the only way of stopping her. By severing Nihilus from the force he would cease to be a wound and could be destroyed - thats sort of speculation though.

 

Nihilus isn't of the force though he is a wound in the force, an Echo of Malachor V itself and it really doesn't matter how powerful you are, the combined might of the Jedi Order on Katarr couldn't fight back against Nihilus, they just died.

 

Nihilus could use Sever Force on Vitiate though, just like he did to Traya.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Darkondo]

Nihilus isn't the force though he is a wound in the force, an Echo of Malachor V itself and it really doesn't matter how powerful you are, the combined might of the Jedi Order on Katarr couldn't fight back Nihilus, they just died.

 

Nihilus could use Sever Force on Vitiate though, just like he did to Traya.

 

You forget one slight thing. Nihilus had to team up with Sion to beat Traya. I kinda wondered why he couldnt do it on his own. And if we go by that logic Nihilus<Traya<Exile<Darth Nyriss<Revan<Vitiate but that just by that logic im not sure if Nihilus needed Sion or not.

[MasterMe]

In terms of story, Nihilus isn't Sith, he isn't even a Dark Jedi, he's a force version of a Black Hole, that can only be destroyed by feeding off of something that has no force energy or is simply dead to the Force: A.K.A Telos IV and the Exile.

 

I still think that Vitiate wins. Whether or not Nihilius is a Sith doesn't change my point.

 

If Nihilius is more powerful, then the writers did a very poor job. That's like if Sidious was killed instead of Darth Maul in TPM. I know their relationship is far different from that of Vitiate and Nihilius (who didn't even know each other), but the fact remains that you if you're a writer then you kill off the most powerful bad guy last.

[MasterMe]

You forget one slight thing. Nihilus had to team up with Sion to beat Traya. I kinda wondered why he couldnt do it on his own. And if we go by that logic Nihilus<Traya<Exile<Darth Nyriss<Revan<Vitiate but that just by that logic im not sure if Nihilus needed Sion or not.

 

Interesting scale. It actually makes pretty good sense.

[Rayla_Felana]

You forget one slight thing. Nihilus had to team up with Sion to beat Traya. I kinda wondered why he couldnt do it on his own. And if we go by that logic Nihilus<Traya<Exile<Darth Nyriss<Revan<Vitiate but that just by that logic im not sure if Nihilus needed Sion or not.

 

They had a meeting, where they finally showed her they were sick of waiting to kill the Jedi, all Sion did was beat her up after Nihilus had already stripped her of her force power that's why she did NOTHING to fight back against them.

 

Also, A>B>Cs are a really bad example of how somebody is superior to somebody else, it's like saying Vader is better than Obi-Wan because he could take out Dooku and Kenobi couldn't, which is entirely flawed because Kenobi took out an even more powerful version of him on Mustafar.

[Rayla_Felana]

I still think that Vitiate wins. Whether or not Nihilius is a Sith doesn't change my point.

 

If Nihilius is more powerful, then the writers did a very poor job. That's like if Sidious was killed instead of Darth Maul in TPM. I know their relationship is far different from that of Vitiate and Nihilius (who didn't even know each other), but the fact remains that you if you're a writer then you kill off the most powerful bad guy last.

 

This isn't a writing 101 test, it's a VS match where you take what each can canonically pull off power wise, canonically Vitiate has absolutely nothing on Nihilus, because the Ravager appears out of nowhere above Dromund Kaas and everything on the planet dies painfully and Vitiate is hit like a brick to the face by irony.

[DarthBandeth]

Vitiate. He has devoured life on a planet the same as Nihilus, I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have a defense against it. Nihilus was ultimately killed by your lightsaber in KOTOR 2 as well, not because you were a wound (although that did weaken him when he tried to devour you, as well as Marr's severance of her bond with Nihilus).

 

Alas, the Sith Emperor is vastly more powerful than the Exile and Marr, I have no doubt that that makes up for the fact that he can't weaken Nihilus the same way the Exile and Marr did.

[Aurbere]

This isn't a writing 101 test, it's a VS match where you take what each can canonically pull off power wise, canonically Vitiate has absolutely nothing on Nihilus, because the Ravager appears out of nowhere above Dromund Kaas and everything on the planet dies painfully and Vitiate is hit like a brick to the face by irony.

 

This could not get any more true. Nihilus is like the grim reaper of Star Wars. You never see it coming. Ravager comes out of hyperspace and you're dead. Vitiate has to do rituals in order to do the same.

 

That's one of the things people don't seem to understand Vitiate's power in my opinion. Most of his power, as well as his 'immortality', comes from rituals. And then they compare his so called feats to that of Sidious or Nihilus. When they did what they did through their own power.

 

No offense OP, but this is a very lopsided battle. Unless Vitiate's life draining ritual isn't ready by the time Nihilus arrives, he's toast. I like the idea of the battle, but when you compare the two, Nihilus is a cut above. He's incredibly powerful than a good majority of people out there.

[Aurbere]

Vitiate. He has devoured life on a planet the same as Nihilus, I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have a defense against it. Nihilus was ultimately killed by your lightsaber in KOTOR 2 as well, not because you were a wound (although that did weaken him when he tried to devour you, as well as Marr's severance of her bond with Nihilus).

 

Alas, the Sith Emperor is vastly more powerful than the Exile and Marr, I have no doubt that that makes up for the fact that he can't weaken Nihilus the same way the Exile and Marr did.

 

Through rituals. He does not have the power to devour planets. The rituals do. Nihilus does it through his own power.

[Rayla_Felana]

Vitiate. He has devoured life on a planet the same as Nihilus, I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have a defense against it. Nihilus was ultimately killed by your lightsaber in KOTOR 2 as well, not because you were a wound (although that did weaken him when he tried to devour you, as well as Marr's severance of her bond with Nihilus).

 

Alas, the Sith Emperor is vastly more powerful than the Exile and Marr, I have no doubt that that makes up for the fact that he can't weaken Nihilus the same way the Exile and Marr did.

 

Through a ritual, that's the difference here, he would have no knowledge of the power beyond that, we have no evidence to the contrary and Nihilus was killed because he first fed off of a dead world(Kreia tricked him into it), then fed off of a Wound in the force(Another trick by the Exile) and then had his powers disrupted because of his bond with Visas Marr, then he was actually a pretty easy target.

 

Oh and I find that statement funny, considering Surik could have took out the Emperor instantly with her lightsaber throw, yet when she finally went face-to-face with him, that's when the traitor got involved.

[Rayla_Felana]

This could not get any more true. Nihilus is like the grim reaper of Star Wars. You never see it coming. Ravager comes out of hyperspace and you're dead. Vitiate has to do rituals in order to do the same.

 

That's one of the things people don't seem to understand Vitiate's power in my opinion. Most of his power, as well as his 'immortality', comes from rituals. And then they compare his so called feats to that of Sidious or Nihilus. When they did what they did through their own power.

 

No offense OP, but this is a very lopsided battle. Unless Vitiate's life draining ritual isn't ready by the time Nihilus arrives, he's toast. I like the idea of the battle, but when you compare the two, Nihilus is a cut above. He's incredibly powerful than a good majority of people out there.

 

Honestly I think a lot of these opinions on Nihilus are formed through the fact he was quite an easy boss battle, well if that is the case, I think we need another 101 on canon, because gameplay mechanics have nothing at all to do with the actual story.

[DarthBandeth]

Oh and I find that statement funny, considering Surik could have took out the Emperor instantly with her lightsaber throw, yet when she finally went face-to-face with him, that's when the traitor got involved.

 

Big deal, there was a chance to kill him and had she taken it, she would have killed him.

 

Vader had a chance to kill the Palpatine and he did, are you saying Vader was more powerful than Palpatine because he threw him down an elevator shaft? Lol.

 

As for the ritual bit, I think the fact that it was a ritual makes it even more plausible that the Sith Emperor had a defense. The fact that it's a ritual means there's more specifics to the process. Take Revan's hologram for example, Bane wrote notes about Revan's rituals on paper. Knowing the process of a power means there's a more likely chance of inventing a counter, and with the Sith Emperor's power, I really don't think Nihilus is going to be able to "eat him". You can disagree all you want, but you're not going to sway me. It's quite dumb that in all of these "vs matchups" that Nihilus gets an auto win even when pitted against some of the most talented and immersed opponents in the force of all time.

Edited October 12, 2012 by DarthBandeth