Morath Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) I am struggling right now with how much tougher I feel in PvP with Masked Assault and Fade.. In PvP I run 23/17/1. Because pvp battles dont typically last forever I can stealth in and out and Masked assualt plus the cloak time reduction plus the 30% damage reduction on area attacks seems to help a lot. Not to mention I can cloak run to healing node and stay in stealth and receive heals. There are so many goodies in the infiltration tree right now.. Honestly Im trying to find some good logic for pvp not to run this build. I can guard so much better it feels.. the problem is damage is fairly low overall.. the spikes I get from shadow strike are nice and the force regen is very good coming out of stealth and then mask assault.. Maybe this will change when I am full war hero. Right now I am full augmented battlemaster with 2 pieces of war hero gear plus I do have a few WH mods from legacy gear I transfered over from another toon. I ran 31/0/10 and 27/0/14 and 23/1/17. I do miss FIB for cap stops but the extra 5 second reduction on force speed helps some.. not perfect. I dont get the area damage from slow time but I do get better single target burst with shadow strike.. Someone please tear this build apart for PvP. What would make 31/10 better. My view on damage is leave that to the DPS toons.. Gimping a tank for a little extra damage is not smart.. Coming from a Vanguard its just silly to focus on damage really at all other than some burst when you are peeling.. another reason I like this build.. Edited October 7, 2012 by Morath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogget Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 With the whole not-getting-healed while in stealth, it works like this and I don't think people realize it. In normal stealth, you can receive heals normally regardless of spec. The only time a stealth mode is not going to allow any healing is if you use Force Cloak, unless specced into it from the Infiltration tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morath Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) With the whole not-getting-healed while in stealth, it works like this and I don't think people realize it. In normal stealth, you can receive heals normally regardless of spec. The only time a stealth mode is not going to allow any healing is if you use Force Cloak, unless specced into it from the Infiltration tree. I did not know that.. Thanks. I do use force cloak a lot it is especially noticable in voidstar cause I am holding objective and cloak and run to healing node.. the other thing is most of the time I really only need healing when I force cloak. That is when Im in trouble and need the heal. It seems very hard to break aggro without it. Still great point and your right I did not realize it. EDIT: Let me clarify. I always need heals when fighting.. it just seems like when I am cloaked the only time I need heals is when I am forced to used Force Cloak.. Normal stealth Im usually pretty full. Edited October 7, 2012 by Morath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrubinMuhTub Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) I'm glad I found this thread. A little history: I recently (two or three weeks ago) came back to my shadow after not playing it for 5-6 months. I started with champion gear and the ilum daily/weekly (it had been that long). My inspiration was a shadow on my server doing more demand burst damage than my fully optimized war hero scrapper/concealment. The idea that they could do this in guard was astonishing, and after the 1.4 patch notes hit, I finally gave in to Bioware's determination and went back to a very powerful class. I've been enjoying PvP much more since then. What the above means, essentially, is that I am in the same boat you are atm. Nearly exactly, actually. I picked up my fourth piece of war hero gear last night, and have the rest in battlemaster with war hero enhancements. Everything is augmented with willpower, and I run the economical Biochem for the stims. I did plenty of research before committing to a build, and spent a great deal of my time of late deciding between 27/0/14 and 23/1/17. After finally deciding that harnessed shadows was too great to give up, even with the bugged/overpowered/easily exploited instant force lift + stasis, I settled in for the long haul. The damage and survivability were unreal. A couple weeks later, however, and after finally getting really comfortable with the class again, I started to take a look at all of the survivability that infiltration had to offer. I found that I was doing alot more actual 'tanking for a healer' and scoring up protection points than I was running around building up some burst. Here is what I found: 27/0/14 -3 stacks of harnessed shadows + force potency ----> into Telekenetic Throw, Force In Balance, then Project, at my gear level, can hit upwards of 10k damage, sometimes more. This is on demand burst with a 75 second cooldown. -Harnessed Shadows just does so much damage, if it didn't have self healing, it would still be great. -Force in Balance is the most amazing door/flag stopper in the game. -Spinning Kick +6% damage is not to be underestimated for focus targets. -Double Strike by itself crits for upwards of 2400. As the 'spam attack' combo builder, this is relatively impressive. 23/17/1 -With this build, you lose out on the amazing damage from Telekenetic Throw through Harnessed Shadows. TKT can do upwards of 4500 at this gear level in the previous spec, but now becomes a novelty item. -You lose the best door/flag cap interrupt in the game. -You lose big damage on double strike. What you gain: -Two seconds off your interrupt. -30 seconds off your cc breaker. -15% combat movement speed. -Additional force regen. -Shadow Strike *can* do good damage. -30% damage reduction on LOLSMASH, which is particularly punishing against tanks guarding a healer. This by itself is really hard to emphasis enough in adding to your survivability. -25% damage reduction on demand, which can be chained, at any time, for 18 seconds, 24 if you start in stealth. This is quite possibly the best 'mid-line' damage reduction in the game, essentially the amazing 'rebuke', without the damage reflection. Basically, the decision for me (I am still evaluating it) boils down to survivability (vastly higher in 23/17/1) versus Force in Balance. Harnessed Shadows simply allows far more damage to happen, far more reliably (less reliance on accuracy and crit, due to Force attack/Force Potency) when compared to the ramped up Shadow Strike.. Force in Balance adds to the burst string, hits plenty of targets, and is the most amazing cap interrupter around. On the other hand, *every* single time I come up against LOLSMASH, I wish I could field respec. To emphasis on this point, any time I am in a warzone with 'that one dps' that just destroys healers and tanks alike, the Kinetic/Infiltration hybrid wins the day, time and again. TLDR What you give up in Harnessed Shadows and FiB, you gain in spades with survivability. The next step is perfecting your character placement, so that losing FiB doesn't cost your team the match. Edited October 7, 2012 by ScrubinMuhTub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajuana Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 This is a good build. Similar to the post above mine, I think you already know the merits/demerits of this build, so I will not repeat it here. My suggestion to your dilemma is to figure our which type of play style you enjoy the most or play more often? (1) RWZ - Your build is good for all maps in RWZ to fulfill the roles of guarding. In fact, you will exceed at it. You must rely on your team for DPS, but that's another role, not yours. On top, you get to be really good at huttball, possibly a game change. (2) Pug-WZ - Your build is not going to change worlds except in huttball. Because even if you call you will need to be lucky for others to come. Better to be able to DPS down things by yourself and guard at the same time (other hybrid builds). (3) World PvP - You will not die, but you will need to pick your targets to fight unlike other hybrid builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Can someone give me an example of this spec with the calculator? and rotation please, would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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