whats your take on agumenting power over strength? (when min/maxing with power)

[zoranporan]

whats your take on agumenting power over strength?

 

been thinking about this lately, and im gonna give it a go today, hoping to find someone to craft me 14 of them lol.

 

loosing minimal with crit, but gaining more power, str is on dr aswell, unlike power wich is not?

 

since we are min/maxing with power why bother with the crit anyway? and str doesnt add to defense (armor).

 

here is my math, correct me if im wrong:

 

14 agument slots, +18 "stat" per slot = total of 252 str/power.

asuming this is correct:

 

For every 4.3 points in Power you have, you gain 1 damage bonus

For every 5 points in str you have, you gain 1 damage bonus

 

Strength:

252 str * 1,05% (buff increase) = 262,6 str = 262,6/5= 52,92 bonus dmg

 

Power:

252 power (no buff:((( ) = 252/4,3 = 58,60 bonus dmg.

 

overall higher bonus dmg, but less crit with augmenting with power, but do we want the small amout of crit over more power when we are running with 20ish % crit already?

[arkitip]

 

overall higher bonus dmg, but less crit with augmenting with power, but do we want the small amout of crit over more power when we are running with 20ish % crit already?

 

 

Frankly, it doesn't matter.

 

With Inquisitor and Warrior buff bonus damage from 252 Strength sits at 55.57. Bonus damage from Power sits at 60.86. You'll gain roughly 1.25% crit chance from that 252 Strength though. When I ran a crit vs. power test a while back, I swapped out 164 power for 164 crit rating and tested. 164 power is 39.61 bonus damage, and 164 crit rating is 5.13% crit chance. The parses were essentially identical (literally 3 DPS apart).

 

So if 5% crit chance ran equally with 39 bonus damage, I'd be hard pressed to say 5.3 bonus damage would outperform 1.25% crit chance by any margin, it likely gets outperformed by a very slight margin. Waste of credits.

[zoranporan]

Case closed ! Thanks for verifying

[Aurojiin]

overall higher bonus dmg, but less crit with augmenting with power, but do we want the small amout of crit over more power when we are running with 20ish % crit already?

This misunderstanding is as common as ever, I see.

 

Your crit chance is not particularly relevant. You could stack entirely Crit Rating on your gear and have 40%+ crit chance and it wouldn't change the fact that crit from your mainstat is on a separate low-DR curve and has a bigger impact on DPS than the added bonus damage of Power.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Aurojiin

[zoranporan]

This misunderstanding is as common as ever, I see.

 

Your crit chance is not particularly relevant. You could stack entirely Crit Rating on your gear and have 40%+ crit chance and it would change the fact that crit from your mainstat is on a separate low-DR curve and has a bigger impact on DPS than the added bonus damage of Power.

 

Ofc, but we are talking about replacing 252 str with 252 power, and if it will do much difference. if it were the case of replacing alle my str with power then it would have been a different issue at hand.

 

My question/theory was; would it make a big difference, wich in this small matter it clearly wouldn't.

[Aurojiin]

Ofc, but we are talking about replacing 252 str with 252 power, and if it will do much difference. if it were the case of replacing alle my str with power then it would have been a different issue at hand.

 

My question/theory was; would it make a big difference, wich in this small matter it clearly wouldn't.

It's not a big difference, sure, but the more relevant point is that replacing 252 strength with power would have a negative effect on DPS.

[Xerain]

There's a whole thread on this here.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=528052

 

 

It's really not a huge difference and a lot is theory crafted and spoken about.

 

 

As far as my augments go i went 12/14 str and I was able to swap out a +39 crit mod for a +39 power mod...

[Aurojiin]

As far as my augments go i went 12/14 str and I was able to swap out a +39 crit mod for a +39 power mod...

Yet again, this isn't how it works.

 

The crit contribution from your main stat and Critical Rating are on completely separate curves, and have a separate effect on DPS. Adding strength does not mean you can reduce crit rating. If swapping crit rating for power increases your DPS, then it would do that regardless of your augment type.

[Crawelc]

Yet again, this isn't how it works.

 

The crit contribution from your main stat and Critical Rating are on completely separate curves, and have a separate effect on DPS. Adding strength does not mean you can reduce crit rating. If swapping crit rating for power increases your DPS, then it would do that regardless of your augment type.

 

please explain how they have different effects on DPS, when crit from str and crit from crit both increase your overall crit rate.

[arkitip]

Yet again, this isn't how it works.

 

The crit contribution from your main stat and Critical Rating are on completely separate curves, and have a separate effect on DPS. Adding strength does not mean you can reduce crit rating. If swapping crit rating for power increases your DPS, then it would do that regardless of your augment type.

 

 

While this is true, most people are aiming for a crit percentage, not a rating. The camps tend to be 30% buffed, and 30% unbuffed (for what it's worth, 328 crit rating + 2158 strength = about 35.5% crit chance buffed).

 

So in that respect, it's correct that stacking main stat allows you to reach that % quicker without having to stack crit rating itself.

[Aurojiin]

please explain how they have different effects on DPS, when crit from str and crit from crit both increase your overall crit rate.

I didn't say different, I said separate. The effect that crit from mainstat has on your DPS has no correlation or interaction with the effect of Critical Rating.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Aurojiin

[Omophorus]

While this is true, most people are aiming for a crit percentage, not a rating. The camps tend to be 30% buffed, and 30% unbuffed (for what it's worth, 328 crit rating + 2158 strength = about 35.5% crit chance buffed).

 

So in that respect, it's correct that stacking main stat allows you to reach that % quicker without having to stack crit rating itself.

 

And this is my major beef with how most people decide on their gearing.

 

Percentages are incidental outcomes, arbitrary, and all but meaningless.

 

Well, except for Accuracy. That's the only case where a hard target is based on a percentage, but even then the exact target is open for debate.

 

Gearing based on target ratings is unambiguous, shows more understanding of how the game actually works, and is easier to convert into gear recommendations.

 

(p.s. not making any statement about you in particular, just a general rant on the subject)

[arkitip]

And this is my major beef with how most people decide on their gearing.

 

Percentages are incidental outcomes, arbitrary, and all but meaningless.

 

Well, except for Accuracy. That's the only case where a hard target is based on a percentage, but even then the exact target is open for debate.

 

Gearing based on target ratings is unambiguous, shows more understanding of how the game actually works, and is easier to convert into gear recommendations.

 

(p.s. not making any statement about you in particular, just a general rant on the subject)

 

 

This is also true.

 

The fact of the matter is, my testing has led me to conclude that there are only targets to avoid more than there are targets to aim for.

 

For example, everyone talks about surge DR, which is all well and good but the only replacement for surge is accuracy. Accuracy is worthless past 100%, so you'll continue to stack surge well into the DR because it still at least has a benefit. So, realistically, you're avoiding taking accuracy past 100% rather than having a true goal number for surge.

 

The same applies for crit rating. It's at about 300 rating that the DR starts to become more noticeable. You'll get about 10% benefit from that 300 crit, and from there it will take you around another 400-500 crit rating to get 10%. So while crit rating still provides benefit, it's probably wise to avoid much crit rating past 300.

 

 

The real kicker of working this all out is that, in practice, it turns out it doesn't really matter. The game seems designed in such a way that a lower crit/high power build will provide DPS numbers that are right in line with a higher crit/lower power build. The only thing you need to do while gearing is avoid going too deep into the DR on crit rating and going over 100% accuracy.

 

I'd imagine those tests would be similar with all other DPS classes/specs except for the Sorc/Sage, for whom alacrity replaces accuracy (which actually has a target rating rather than a number to avoid).

[zoranporan]

I would'nt stack it, but accuracy isnt completly waist after 100% (110%), it still reduces opponent resistance:

 

Accuracy Rating

Increases your chance to hit with attacks. Once you reach the hit cap, accuracy starts reducing enemy defenses (ability to parry/dodge your incoming attack) or resistance to force or tech abilities.

[Omophorus]

I would'nt stack it, but accuracy isnt completly waist after 100% (110%), it still reduces opponent resistance:

 

Accuracy Rating

Increases your chance to hit with attacks. Once you reach the hit cap, accuracy starts reducing enemy defenses (ability to parry/dodge your incoming attack) or resistance to force or tech abilities.

 

The primary value of Accuracy past 100% is increasing the accuracy of your offhand attacks. That said, all 3 specs derive large segments of their damage from abilities that do not permit offhand attacks (bleeds, Force Scream, Smash), and offhand attacks do not benefit from bonus damage, so increasing your Accuracy from 100% to 101% gives you 1% better chance to land an attack that comprises ~60% of your damage, and the hit that you're adding is only ~20% of that attack's damage on a good day.

 

And that phrase keeps getting slung around, without people understanding what it actually means. Every attack except Assault has a base 100% chance to hit. Some enemies have between an 8% and 10% chance of defending that attack. At 110% special Accuracy (100% listed on your character sheet) you have completely pushed the enemy's chance to parry/dodge off the table.

 

Any further Accuracy past that point is worthless except to increase your offhand accuracy. And offhand accuracy impacts 20% of 60% (so 12%) of your total damage. As should be quickly apparent, a 1% increase in offhand Accuracy has a virtually negligible impact on your overall DPS.