The original plan for Darth Vader

[Chamby-X]

How different do you think it was than what ultimately wound up happening?

 

I remember before Episode 3 thinking, "so he'll turn to the dark side and suit up, and...". And then catching myself. He's not Iron Man. He's not in the suit by choice. Granted, you could get that impression from the original Star Wars (the stormtroopers are guys in suits, maybe Vader just has a different one). Of course we learn that Vader needs the suit, it's the only thing keeping him alive.

 

Of course, Vader in the suit was never the ideal plan, was it? All that scheming Palpatine did to turn Anakin to the dark side, he must have expected to have a fully functional Anakin doing his bidding. How much would that have changed things? From the Ep3 novelization and some Dark Times set EU stuff, it's clear that the galaxy doesn't know that Vader was Anakin Skywalker. To the galaxy, the jedi hero Anakin Skywalker was just another traitor that was exterminated by the Empire. So how would a 'alive and well' Anakin have changed things? I think the plan was for Palpatine to say "jedi evil, look, Anakin Skywalker will tell you himself".

 

I think it was the Ep3 novel in which Palpatine fed Anakin the idea of placing him as the head of a new Sith order that would replace the Jedi; the Emperor's Fist, or some such. Whether that was ever an actual plan or just something he told Anakin, who knows. Cause it would obviously violate the rule of two.

 

Here's another thought; is Vader winding up in the suit the Force's way of hedging its bets on the whole 'chosen one' prophecy? Anakin is well established as one of if not the most powerful jedi ever. When Obi-Wan turns him into a charred torso, he loses a lot of that power; I guess because, practically, less body parts means less blood means less midichlorians means less Force power. Ending up in the suit, Anakin/Vader is put in a weakened state. Still powerful, but far from what he was. Which is probably a good thing for the light side of the force. Would Luke have been able to defeat a fully powered Vader? Would Vader, without the weakness borne from the suit, have had any inclination to regret his actions and turn back to the light?

 

Would Luke and Leia even have had the lives they did if Vader isn't in the suit? I think a big reason Anakin closes the door to his old life and accepts without question that Padme died in childbirth and so did the kids is the trauma of his injuries. Anything that reminds him of who and what he once was, he must forget for the sake of whatever sanity he has left. If Anakin's just his evil old self, he probably scours the galaxy looking for his kids.

 

Of course, Palpatine probably wouldn't have allowed that... and he may have actually been relieved when Anakin got ganked by Obi-Wan. He kind of created a monster didn't he? Taking the most powerful jedi in the galaxy and turning him into a power hungry Sith. How long would it have taken Anakin to set his sights on ruling the galaxy himself? Would Palpatine have been able to stop him?

 

So.... yeah. I just wonder how different the whole SW story would be if Anakin had taken Obi Wan's advice about the high ground

[Eillack]

Well originally Anakin was going to be in a very similar suit with his red saber, etc. But then L.A. realized "Oh wait...how does Luke get Anakin's saber in Ep IV the?" And the concept was scrubbed. Anakin was kept in his original outfit to show how he was a Jedi, and is now fallen.

 

Then Obi-wan picking up his saber filled the gap.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Eillack

[Wolfninjajedi]

It already was thought of.

 

[grandmthethird]

on the same subject but on a slightly differernt note.

 

the 6 movies as we know are the story of the fall of anakin and redemption of darth vader. but i feel that before episodes 1 to 3 were ever thought of, the story was a very different one. the OT was the story of one kids journey to save the galaxy.

 

i think the story of star wars changed so drastically for more than just the obvious reason that springs straight to mind. the obvious reason is to make the story fit, to get all 6 films to run as one story, the emphasis had to change from lukes story. and as one of the only characters to be in all 6 films changing it to anakins story just makes sense. however i believe the believe the change in story had allot to do with us the audience as well.

 

if you take the original audience of films 4, 5, and 6. the majority were children and teens, and the story of a naive farm boy, going off on an adventure, rescuing a princess, learning magic, and eventually saving the galaxy. this story just appeals to youngsters. however 25 years later all them kids have grown up, and the new story of anakins fall to the darkside is more appealing to adults.

 

in a way this was kinda the downfall of the PT imo, on the surface with CGI and jaja, and pod racing, the film was trying to appeal to the kids of today like the OT appealed to us as kids. but underneath the story was aimed at the original audience, and problem was ppl that loved the OT could never get on board with the style of new star war. and the kids that do love the PT can't get on board with the OT it just looks old and outdated to kids. where was too big a gap between the trilogy's, and in a way taht knda alienated everyone. i'm willing to bet the mayority of ppl that loved the OT and have read the novels of the PT preferred them to the movies. as you can read a book and imagine it the way you remember the OT

 

OOPs that kinda tuned to a rant

 

i think lucas should have had a clear idea for all 6 story's from the beginning, rather than writing 3 new storys and trying to make them fit with 3 existing storys. it could have been great it could have been truly truly great, it was close. but i have to ask myself do i prefer the original idea of lukes story or the new idea of vaders story. one thing for sure it was quite clever to change the story the way they did

Edited September 17, 2012 by grandmthethird

[Chamby-X]

on the same subject but on a slightly differernt note.

 

i think lucas should have had a clear idea for all 6 story's from the beginning, rather than writing 3 new storys and trying to make them fit with 3 existing storys. it could have been great it could have been truly truly great, it was close. but i have to ask myself do i prefer the original idea of lukes story or the new idea of vaders story. one thing for sure it was quite clever to change the story the way they did

 

Well that kinda plays into another thread I was gonna make lol.

 

That being, as much as I love Star Wars (the whole shebang)... the prequels really should have been planned out better. There are interviews with George saying, before Episode 2 or 3, that he'd get ideas for those movies from the art team. Like, "we need a villain, draw one for me" and then if he liked the design, he'd take it from there. (I believe one of the discarded concepts, for the Ep 2 villain I think, became Assaj Ventress.)

 

Bad idea. He had all the time in the world, he should have had three scripts written before a frame of Episode 1 was ever shot. Of course you can change them to fit a developing story if needed, but it sounds like he barely even had a road map, and given the importance of connecting Eps 1-3 to the OT, that just seems unwise.

 

I love the prequels, I do, but I can't help but think they could have been so much better with some more pre-planning on GL's part.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well that kinda plays into another thread I was gonna make lol.

 

That being, as much as I love Star Wars (the whole shebang)... the prequels really should have been planned out better. There are interviews with George saying, before Episode 2 or 3, that he'd get ideas for those movies from the art team. Like, "we need a villain, draw one for me" and then if he liked the design, he'd take it from there. (I believe one of the discarded concepts, for the Ep 2 villain I think, became Assaj Ventress.)

 

Bad idea. He had all the time in the world, he should have had three scripts written before a frame of Episode 1 was ever shot. Of course you can change them to fit a developing story if needed, but it sounds like he barely even had a road map, and given the importance of connecting Eps 1-3 to the OT, that just seems unwise.

 

I love the prequels, I do, but I can't help but think they could have been so much better with some more pre-planning on GL's part.

 

All movies ever could have been done better. Problem however, no matter how a movie is done theres always going to be some negative people and all that. Entertainment is all opinion based really, you can't really have any facts for it at least in the way of people enjoying it.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Macheath]

When Obi-Wan first says the line, "He's more machine than man, now.." I always thought that Vader slowly replaced his living parts with tech, over a long period of time. When I imagined it, I pictured Vader having to go around doing all the Emperor's dirty work (since he's the only other Sith around) and having that take it's toll. Vader would be the one hunting down and killing what remains of the Jedi, that must have been a dangerous job for him.

 

It never occurred to me that he would go from full human to mostly machine in a single fight. I guess it makes sense from a cinematography standpoint, since the main symbols of Vader is the dark armor (helmet specifically) and the breathing. Now I know a lot better how Lucas thinks than I did way back when I first saw Star Wars, and I fully expect that sort of thing from him now. It wouldn't have been like him to just imply that Anakin becomes a machine between Ep. 3 and Ep. 4. He needed to show it in one of the movies.

 

As for how things would have changed if Anakin hadn't sustained those injuries, I think for starters it would have been much harder to get rid of him. A 50 year old Anakin with full use of his body would have been godly, no way Luke would have even stood an inkling of a chance with what little training he received. The OT would have to be rewritten to show Luke as a much better fighter, more like the prodigy his father was.

 

Overall, that might have cheapened the OT, I think. Instead of a battle of wills between himself and his father, with Luke's love winning over Vader's hatred, it would have had to be a physical battle of strength between the two. More time would have to be dedicated to showing Luke becoming a nearly godlike warrior himself, as strong as a man (not just any man, but a man who can live up to the Emperor's high standards) with 30 years of experience on him. I like it the way it is, the partially trained boy defeating the broken old man, with the true battle being between their resolve. Luke ultimately loses the physical confrontation on the Death Star, unable to actually beat the Emperor, but he wins the greater battle going on below the surface.

 

That's one problem with the prequels. Epic fight scenes are, well, epic, but ultimately that long, drawn out battle along tightropes and rivers of lava served to distract us from seeing the inner turmoil of the two men. That, and Hayden Christensen has never acted convincingly in anything. Ever. That certainly didn't help.

 

-Macheath.

[alricka]

What would have happened if Vader wasn't crippled and put into the suit? Within a couple of years he would have removed Palpatine and he would have become an Emperor himself. He was already picturing in Episode 3. I imagine that had he learned that his children are alive he would have letf no stone unturned in the Galaxy until he found them and took them as apprentices. I don't know how strong he felt about Bane's Rule of Two; if he supported it, maybe he would have had Luke and Leia fight to the death and declare the survivor worthy to be his successor.

 

So, I dunno, in retrospect it's probably good that Kenobi crippled him. This way we got two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) who actually conspired against each other in the OT instead of one Sith (Vader) who would be pretty much the unrivaled apex predator.

[Wolfninjajedi]

What would have happened if Vader wasn't crippled and put into the suit? Within a couple of years he would have removed Palpatine and he would have become an Emperor himself. He was already picturing in Episode 3. I imagine that had he learned that his children are alive he would have letf no stone unturned in the Galaxy until he found them and took them as apprentices. I don't know how strong he felt about Bane's Rule of Two; if he supported it, maybe he would have had Luke and Leia fight to the death and declare the survivor worthy to be his successor.

 

So, I dunno, in retrospect it's probably good that Kenobi crippled him. This way we got two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) who actually conspired against each other in the OT instead of one Sith (Vader) who would be pretty much the unrivaled apex predator.

 

How would he have found his children, if Obi-Wan is dead then Padme would have died as would the kids.

[Malles]

Well, if the DS ending for the Episode 3 video game is any indication, after killing Obi-Wan, Darth Vader would have cut Palpatine down the moment he got to Mustafar and taken over the galaxy.

 

Anakin Skywalker said in Episode 2 that he was not a fan of democracy (and looking at the current political environment of my own country, I can see why), and in Episode 3 he told Obi-Wan that by becoming a Sith and Palpatine's new apprentice that he had "brought peace, justice and security to [his] new Empire". Sure, originally he had done it to save his wife, but since he wound up killing her himself Vader probably had some mixed priorities.

 

So, let's ask this: What would have happened if Anakin had killed Obi-Wan and Padme survived the Force Choke (because screw that "broken heart" nonsense)? Padme would obviously survive her childbirth, but she was still pushing for Palpatine to give up his power and still wanted democracy. Anakin wanted his wife alive and a galaxy where everyone got a long with each other, by force if necessary. Thoughts?