We NEED an Agro Dump skill FFS!!

[Xandole]

All of the upcoming 1.4 VG changes aren't very acceptable. Killing off our (assault VG) ranged skills w/o any kind of defense skill implementation will make playing this class in PvP near impossible. In PvE having a 10-15 meter range wont really make that big of a difference. But in PvP us assault specs will get pwnd by lack of range and/or any ability to close that range and having no real defense to bolster that charge, sorry but hammer shot isnt a strong deterrent. And before someone comments about the harpoon or charge skills, that are not that familiar with the classes i will tell you that charge is in the shield tree (tank spec) and doesnt have anything to do with a dps VG, and the harpoon skill has a 45s cd. So before the comments start flying know thy class!

 

All melee classes come with standard abilities that helps to balance their lack of ranged attacks: (to help get into melee range)

Jedi/Sith Warriors - Force Leap, Defense Boosts

Shadow/Assassin - Force Speed, Stealth and an arsenal of CC's

Scoundrel/OP - Stealth, CC's

 

Taking away our range without a huge overhaul to our defense and skill sets will only make the assault tree useless and seriously unbalanced for PvP combat. Aside from the fact that it wouldn't make any sense, incendiary round is being shot from a rifle/cannon with a max rang of 10m (30 feet)?? seriously bad weapons/munitions development issues there..... The Assault Plastics on the other hand makes a little more sense as tossing anything 10m with any kind of accuracy takes skill, but an explosive devise not having a blast radius is some seriously advanced stuff compared to sticky or frag grenades or well anything that goes BOOM!

 

A few suggestions for the dev's that brainstormed the 10m range idea to keep this class viable:

1) Make Charge a basic vanguard class ability with no other changes to the skill.

2) Change Cryo grenade, Assault Plastic and Incendiary round to all be AoE skills.

3) Add a short duration stun/daze to stock strike.

4) Add a short knock back to the explosive surge skill.

 

But with all of the changes that have happened since launch why are the vanguards and tech's the only two dps classes that still do not have an agro dump skill? Seriously, even the guardians and juggs got an agro dump... we just have to suck up the guard from our tanks and really watch the rotations or become fodder....

 

i am positive i am not the only one that would really like to see the same 25% threat dump skill that all of our fellow dps classes have been enjoying to help tanks hold agro come with the 1.4 changes.

 

All I am saying here is that the skill set for the assault spec VG is perfectly fine the way it is minus the lack of an agro dump. Again, from the information released about the upcoming 1.4 changes, this class will become primarily a melee range/close quarters combatant with no means to enter into melee range. and again, in PvE this isnt as big of an issue and can be worked around. BUT if these tentative 1.4 changes take place the Assault VG will be 100% absolutely useless in PvP/WZ as by the time you would be able to get into the 10m effective range of any skills that could do any real dmg you would be dead minus the 1 guy every 45s you get to harpoon into range.

[Karasuko]

[Very nice general rant going on there.

Why do you need an agro dump in pvp?

What does needing a charge have to do with an agro dump?

[Xandole]

The agro dump is obiously for PvE, considering the only class that does not have a 25% agro dump skill of a CD is the VG/PT.

 

And sense you only read or comprehended only a portion of the original post, if they intend on making the DPS VG/PT a melee range fighter then we need the skill set to get into melee range i.e. a charge skill.

 

It wasnt in the original posting but we also have no escape skill as does the other melee classes. guardians have guardian leap, sentinel's have force cloak, scoundrel's and shadow's have HiPs (hide in plain sight) shadow's currently have force speed and as of 1.4 scoundrel's will have a sprint also.

 

Point is that the VG/PT was not designed to be primarily a melee combatant, once the range of those three skills is reduced to 10m PvP/WZ's will just be something of the past. As i also stated, most of PvE wont be a real issue as most of the fights during OPs are w/n melee range anyways. The problem lays with no survivability in PvP combat with any ranged combatant.....we will just become lightning fodder.

[DakoHawk]

I agree, but your delivery is a little jumbled.

[Xandole]

Sorry lol, this just irritates me to no end. there really is no reason for this nerf. i have been playing my 8/5/28 spec'd VG since Jan/Feb and have been running meters since they were made available. Not much difference between the DPS classes' dmg but if a DPS VG/PT doesn't have a guard on em the tank has no chance of holding agro. and that is because in BW's enlightenment or just plain over site we are the only two classes of all 8 that does not have a 25% agro/threat dump on a 1 minute CD. That one skill would make a huge difference in this classes Operations strategy. Originally Guardian/Jugg's didnt have one either but that skill was added in 1.2 and completely unsure why BW didnt do the same for the VG/PT classes. Edited September 13, 2012 by Xandole

[Karasuko]

 

And sense you only read or comprehended only a portion of the original post, if they intend on making the DPS VG/PT a melee range fighter then we need the skill set to get into melee range i.e. a charge skill.

 

 

You have a snare(that takes no skill,is spammable and sets up HiB) and a stun.You also have more ranged damage even with the nerfs.And your biggest damage skills still have a 30m range.

QQmoar Baddie

[Xandole]

How do you figure, the only 30m skills we will have left as of 1.4 are Hammer Shot, Full Auto and High Impact Bolt. We have 2 CC's one (neural surge 8m radius) is a PBAOE w/ 5 max targets and single target Cryo grenade 10m range single target, both w/ a 30s+ CD, Harpoon w/ a 45s CD.

 

Ion Pulse has a 14m max range

Pulse Cannon (Frontal Cone AoE 10m range)

Stock Strike has a 10m max range

Sticky grenade (likely 10m w/ 1.4)

Assault Plastic (10m range as of 1.4)

 

so as i stated in PvP we will become useless because we have no way to close the gap from range to melee, hammer shot and HiB are the only two we can use while moving at range...... and the proposed changes will makes this class not broken how?

Edited September 13, 2012 by Xandole

[-Holmes]

How do you figure, the only 30m skills we will have left as of 1.4 are Hammer Shot, Full Auto and High Impact Bolt(which requires a dot or stun to be in place, go figure.) We have 2 CC's one (neural surge 8m radius, 2.5 seconds) is a PBAOE w/ 5 max targets and single target Cryo grenade 10m range single target, Cryo w/ a 60s CD(50s if specced), Neural with 45s CD, Harpoon w/ a 45s CD(does not work on resolve, unlike charge/leap, which roots resolve charged as well, and also builds resolve.)

 

Ion Pulse has a 10m max range

Pulse Cannon (Frontal Cone AoE 10m range)

Stock Strike has a 4m max range

Sticky grenade (likely 10m w/ 1.4)

Assault Plastic (10m range as of 1.4)

 

so as i stated in PvP we will become useless because we have no way to close the gap from range to melee, hammer shot and HiB are the only two we can use while moving at range...... and the proposed changes will makes this class not broken how?

Fixed it up a bit.

[DacRycar]

You have a snare(that takes no skill,is spammable and sets up HiB)

10% chance (16% with talents) to apply the DoT for both a 2-second snare and a chance to fire High Impact Bolt. If you consider this a consistent chance at firing HiB, then I need to take you to Vegas.

 

and a stun.

Reduced to 10 meters in the current PTS build, which I'm assuming - based on this and other posts - you haven't read about.

 

You also have more ranged damage even with the nerfs.

Are we getting "more" ranged damage in the next patch? Because the notes I'm reading all of our good abilities are being reduced to 10 meters or less: Ion Pulse, Stockstrike, Pulse Cannon, Fire Pulse, Assault Plastique and Incendiary Round.

 

And your biggest damage skills still have a 30m range.

The three remaining abilities that can be cast over 10 meters in the current 1.4 PTS build are: Sticky Grenade, Hammer Shot and High Impact Bolt. The first two are not hard hitters.

 

High Impact Bolt can only be fired if a DoT is applied to the target. I've already mentioned our chances regarding Hammer Shot applications (and our trip to Vegas) above. Everything else that can apply a DoT to fire HiB is within 10 meters, effectively making HiB a 10 meter ability.

 

Edited September 13, 2012 by DacRycar

[Kitru]

10% chance (16% with talents) to apply the DoT for both a 2-second snare and a chance to fire High Impact Bolt. If you consider this a consistent chance at firing HiB, then I need to take you to Vegas.

 

10% and 16% might not seem like "high" numbers, but you have to remember that Hammer Shot doesn't hit the target just once: it hits the target 7 times. You have a roughly 53% chance of procing the DoT with a single use of Hammer Shot because of this (1 - ((1-.1)^ 7). Something to keep in mind.

 

Personally, I support giving VGs a threat drop of some sort. As it stands, they're the only class without one, which seems kind of off, since the developers have finally resolved the lack of interrupt on commandos and gave Guardians a threat drop that also doubles as a CD quite a while ago. Whether it's a simple threat drop like most of the others or a tweaked version like was given to Guardians, it doesn't really matter: VGs really *should* have a threat drop because it's one of the standard tools that everyone is expected to be given.

[Zenthrax]

Anyone thought about how the new 1.4 changes will cause more aggro issues yet ?

 

Forcing vanguards to stay in 10m range will make them use ion pulse/pulse cannon a lot more, causing a lot more burst aggro.