The hard truth for DPS Sages

[SoonerJBD]

Again I think everyone is getting hung up on this "5%" crap...

 

As others have stated, there are pure DPS classes and there are utility classes. Those little heal buttons on your quickbars mean you are a utility class. Everyone has the job they are meant to do and the pure DPS classes can only do one thing and they should be the best at it.

 

I honestly don't PVE a lot but I know in PVP (in a Void Star) I can pump out 400-600k DPS with 200k+ healing and I would much rather do that than be a gunslinger/sniper doing 500-700k DPS with zero healing. It gives the Sage sustainability and survivabitliy. We are the DPS class that when your healer goes down in an Op and the boss is at 10% we can start tossing heals around and save the kill ... if that happens to a gunslinger all they can do is say Oh S**T! and start trying to keep DPS and the group fails.

 

Look at all the positives and negatives of the class instead of putting blinders on and focusing on one number.

 

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. This "pure DPS class" argument always comes up in these discussions and it is complete and utter nonsense. Every DPS class, even the "pure" DPS classes, has utility skills. The Sentinel's inspiration ability is arguably the best utility skill in the game for PvE. So by your logic, they should have their DPS output severely gimped to make up for their "utility."

 

In PvP, utility specs are viable. The ability to self heal or off heal or use stealth offers distinct advantages in the unpredictable nature of a PvP fight. But utility specs are pointless in PvE. This discussion has NOTHING to do with PvP. In PvE, everyone has one job to do. The fights are tuned for this and are scripted for this. That little heal button on my bar is nearly useless in PvE because I am not in a healer's role. My job in a raid is to put out DPS. If I'm not damaging the boss, I'm not doing my job. We have healers to heal. We have DPS to do damage. If the healer goes down with 10 percent left, my job as a DPS Sage is not to off heal. My job is to pop cooldowns and burn the boss to zero because my single un-buffed healing ability can't keep people alive long enough to down the boss without my DPS added to the mix. My force points are better spent damaging the boss, not throwing an off-heal.

 

There are rare occasions where a DPS class with a heal button might have a reason to throw one out. But that utility is completely offset by the utility offered by the "pure" dps classes you mention. Inspiration offers a hell of a lot more to the group than my ability to throw one or two heals in a fight. The gunslinger's group shield ability has a similar advantage. The point to these utility skills is to give people motivation to bring along a variety of classes. But that doesn't work when the difference in potential DPS output is so large that it outweighs the benefits of utility. And that is the situation we are currently in with this game.

[AuZZieCxC]

Again I think everyone is getting hung up on this "5%" crap...

 

As others have stated, there are pure DPS classes and there are utility classes. Those little heal buttons on your quickbars mean you are a utility class. Everyone has the job they are meant to do and the pure DPS classes can only do one thing and they should be the best at it.

 

I honestly don't PVE a lot but I know in PVP (in a Void Star) I can pump out 400-600k DPS with 200k+ healing and I would much rather do that than be a gunslinger/sniper doing 500-700k DPS with zero healing. It gives the Sage sustainability and survivabitliy. We are the DPS class that when your healer goes down in an Op and the boss is at 10% we can start tossing heals around and save the kill ... if that happens to a gunslinger all they can do is say Oh S**T! and start trying to keep DPS and the group fails.

 

Look at all the positives and negatives of the class instead of putting blinders on and focusing on one number.

 

 

I couldn't Agree Anymore, Ive been in Many Ops Groups usually top dps charts HM ops with exception of sentinel or gunslinger being there. Only way i ever beat a sentinel, is by doing a few AOE's while hes not looking. They need to bring the Sage Class up to date. Especially on 1on1 Fights Sage Dps Suffers the most

[Doubledeath]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/7926673c-aab2-4522-9035-263f4910ef7a/overview#d=0,b=1

 

you can look at more numbers from me on askmrrobot i am consistantly one of the top dps classes ( the reason i fail on the operator fight is in this log i was dead but also my FiB misses almost every stupid data core. my spec is on askmrrobot along with my gear setup. sage is far from the worst dps class

[SoonerJBD]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/7926673c-aab2-4522-9035-263f4910ef7a/overview#d=0,b=1

 

you can look at more numbers from me on askmrrobot i am consistantly one of the top dps classes ( the reason i fail on the operator fight is in this log i was dead but also my FiB misses almost every stupid data core. my spec is on askmrrobot along with my gear setup. sage is far from the worst dps class

 

There is nothing that spectacular or unusual about these numbers. Pretty average for TFB. And, for the umpteenth time, this isn't a question about whether or not Sages can pull decent numbers. With enough gear, skill and knowledge of the fight, these numbers are not that difficult to attain. I'd be curious to see the specs, gear, etc. of the other people in this raid as well. Your gear is near pre-1.4 BiS. You could pull these same numbers with less gear if you were playing a Gunslinger or Sentinel. That's the issue.

 

Sages aren't the worst DPS class. That distinction belongs to Scoundrels. But our DPS specs are 8-10 percent behind similarly geared Sentinels and Gunslingers. That's the issue.

[enoax]

Again I think everyone is getting hung up on this "5%" crap...

 

As others have stated, there are pure DPS classes and there are utility classes. Those little heal buttons on your quickbars mean you are a utility class. Everyone has the job they are meant to do and the pure DPS classes can only do one thing and they should be the best at it.

 

I honestly don't PVE a lot but I know in PVP (in a Void Star) I can pump out 400-600k DPS with 200k+ healing and I would much rather do that than be a gunslinger/sniper doing 500-700k DPS with zero healing. It gives the Sage sustainability and survivabitliy. We are the DPS class that when your healer goes down in an Op and the boss is at 10% we can start tossing heals around and save the kill ... if that happens to a gunslinger all they can do is say Oh S**T! and start trying to keep DPS and the group fails.

 

Look at all the positives and negatives of the class instead of putting blinders on and focusing on one number.

 

I dont think we are playing the same game. Gunslinger has more utiltity and more survivability, even with force mend. What current ops boss can you successfully heal as a dps sage. that's right none. However a 20% less damage aoe shield for the raid sounds pretty good to me. If the healers die at 10% ... it's cooldown and max dps time imo. Doing a disservice by trying to heal anyone. (example kephess/TFB and basically anyother encounter)

Edited October 31, 2012 by enoax

[Hiniba]

I will say. The guy did say he doesn't know much about PVE so there's that.

Two, when crap hits the fan and healers are down I agree it's a waste of time healing (I MIGHT toss a force potency deliverance out but usually I'll burn my potency on a big attack), but I will at least keep the tank (or whoever have agro) force imbalance up. The healing isn't worth time or energy because it's expensive and takes a long time to activate, force armor just starts a global cooldown (still expensive)