Advanced Prototype in 1.4

[CharterMonkKent]

I do understand your point, but none the less, those 3 abilities are some of the highest heat generating abilities used by AP. Yes Flame Sweep, Explosive Dart, Flame Burst and Rocket Punch are on par with heat generation, but Explosvie Dart and Flame Sweep are always used very minimally in AP (I've used Sweep as mainly PFT generator with low heat and lots of enemies), Flame Burst is built into the spec and is needed, and Rocket Punch can be procced for free of heat cost. So if you keep in mind what abilities you CAN use more effectively with a build that encourages the use of said abilities (for example, the rail shot in the build you were focusing on) you know your not just using Rail Shot because you CAN, but because you have already supported its use through your build.

 

I already prefer NORSE anyway, but I'll give that build from CharterMonkKent a shot to see whether or not it's better to have Retractable Blade for NORSE or Kent's build that supports the use of Rail Shot.

 

the build i have below is working the damage debuff for team success. It does help in 1v1, you get 7% flat damage reduction (you will notice it), but it really shines when you AOE taunt & AOE debuff. For my money it's the best group utility in PT, doesn't even fill resolve. With 1.4 the damage reduction capabilities for AP are going to add substantially to survivability.

 

I tend to use dart when it's off CD. Right now I'll use it on opening (since it still works over 10m) and time it with immolate or RP. That gives a great burst, similar to pyro burst strategy. As mentioned RS in the build I'm using right now is completely dependable on your target being dot'd already. When your team is focusing a target it will happen (in rated for sure, and typical in pugs). I still tend not to use it unless it's the perfect situation.

 

I guess this is one fun aspect of this build. There are different ways to run it. Each has their own +s and -s. I will say though... Having a 6sec cool down interrupt is very sexy.

Edited September 12, 2012 by CharterMonkKent

[DacRycar]

Have a 6sec cool down interrupt is very sexy.

 

INDEED!

 

I recall back a few months ago. I was Tactics with this modified NORSE build. I found an Operative healer and stuck to him like glue. I was in voicechat with an Imperial friend, who was in the same Warzone. Halfway through the match, he informed me that said Operative was complaining about "that stupid Vanguard" and how he couldn't shake her.

 

He got the lowest healing done that match.

 

AP/Tactics works, I love it, I just love Pyro/Assault for the burst.

Edited September 12, 2012 by DacRycar

[SneiK]

No offence, but I think NORSE players just can't handle the AP in general, and should play Pyro instead. Even more so, if you are taking more abilities out from you skillbar (taking out rapid shots, what the hell???).

 

Why did AP totally suck, pre 1.2? Because we had no snare. And now, you are giving that snare up. You are also giving up a 100% crit chance on Rail Shot. Do you even know what that means? 100% crit will mean, that it cannot be shielded. This makes melting anything as an AP a breeze, because none of your attacks can be shielded (Only rail on 100% crit ofc, rest is tech, which cannot be shielded/dodged).

Edited September 13, 2012 by SneiK

[FeralPug]

No offence, but I think NORSE players just can't handle the AP in general, and should play Pyro instead. Even more so, if you are taking more abilities out from you skillbar (taking out rapid shots, what the hell???).

 

 

While I wouldn't use the same words as Feta, I would agree 100% that AP builds without the Railshot/RB spec are gimping themselves. The bottom line is that NORSE specs ultimately have significantly lower output, and more importantly less flexibility, than APs who use RS.

 

RS is a guaranteed crit with AP. This is a guaranteed 4k hit that ignores shields. Imagine a Carnage marauder giving up force scream?? But that comparison doesn't even begin to cover it since RS is a 30 meter ability. 30 meters! The Carnage mara has to work for armor penetration by sacrificing a global cooldown to do so. AP has built in armor penetration with RS. You guys are Crazy Eddy CRAZY for speccing out of RS.

 

I have spent significant time in a fully min/maxed WH Combat Tech suit with AP builds. I will tell you right now that the NORSE builds are lower output in a real PVP environment. With a very high percent chance to crit on Rocket Punch, a guaranteed crit on RS and huge flame burst/Immolate damage with the brutal elemental damage of a fully stacked PFT you have a deadly class that was only overshadowed by pyrotech because pyrotech was stupidly OP. I still think pyro will be great in 1.4. AP was pretty awesome before 1.4, but with this bump it's going to be absolutely brutal. Probably still a little less burst than pyro, but constant pressure, superb mobility and excellent durability.

 

Retractable blade has problems for sure. It's a very expensive skill to fully spec. The snare is a little lackluster, but if you couple it with our passive 15% movement rate and HO you have a nice way to control your target. Get your crit up, and the bleed (which is internal damage) can add something to overall DPS and pressure. You get a 100% crit chance on RS with it!

 

Keep your railshot guys. Keep your rapid shots. Use all the tools in the toolbox. It's what will make AP shine in 1.4.

[DacRycar]

Do you even know what that means? 100% crit will mean, that it cannot be shielded. This makes melting anything as an AP a breeze, because none of your attacks can be shielded (Only rail on 100% crit ofc, rest is tech, which cannot be shielded/dodged).

 

Rail Shot is a [Ranged] ability and therefore can be shielded, deflected and dodged. "No offense" but you need to check your toolbars more often.

Edited September 13, 2012 by DacRycar

[DacRycar]

While I wouldn't use the same words as Feta, I would agree 100% that AP builds without the Railshot/RB spec are gimping themselves. The bottom line is that NORSE specs ultimately have significantly lower output, and more importantly less flexibility, than APs who use RS.

 

Hello, Jerc! Didn't notice your signature at first.

 

We've faced off many times in the Warzones and we know each other's skill very well. While I respect your opinions regarding AP, I'd like to point out TheOpf's guide on AP and the various specs –*including NORSE. I've spoken with Opf and seen him in action with the NORSE spec and I feel its just as on par for damage. Nevertheless, it still has the short comings of AP, and that is the lack of burst and its "turret mode" PFT.

 

If you feel that the free crit and Rocket Punch are viable bursts then I'll take your word for it.

Edited September 13, 2012 by DacRycar

[SneiK]

Rail Shot is a [Ranged] ability and therefore can be shielded, deflected and dodged. "No offense" but you need to check your toolbars more often.

 

See, this is why the game is ultimately going to fail. People, who create these QQ threads about nerfs and mindless things, while having no knowledge of the game mechanics involved.

 

I don't know if I should even bother explaining these things to guys like you, but oh well, here it goes.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

'A critical can never be shielded, and an attacker with a high enough crit chance can push the target’s shield chance off the table'

 

You can still miss, but you won't lose the buff if you miss. You roll a hit, however, and the Rail Shot is a guaranteed non-shieldable crit. Sorry to bring this up, NORSE fella.

 

EDIT: Please, for the love of god, stop posting on the PT forums. You are making us look as bad, as most people think we are.

Edited September 13, 2012 by SneiK

[DacRycar]

You can still miss, but you won't lose the buff if you miss. You roll a hit, however, and the Rail Shot is a guaranteed non-shieldable crit. Sorry to bring this up, NORSE fella.

 

Thank you for reminding me about this mechanic. While I don't approve of your derogatory comments, I appreciate you reminding me that critical hits cannot be shielded. Its been some time since I've read Ed Park's guides, ever since he left for Guild Wars 2.

 

My issue still lies with Retractable Blade's clunky mechanic and damage-to-heat ratio.

Edited September 13, 2012 by DacRycar

[SneiK]

Post removed Edited September 17, 2012 by SneiK

[DacRycar]

Thank you for the run down! I may just try some Tactics tonight based on this post.

 

Now, you can do 3k+3k easily in 3seconds on a single target, that you don't have to get caught in a cone AoE, and cannot be interrupted with a stun/knockback (if no HO on).

 

I believe one can still be stunned/mezzed even with Hydraulic Override active. I remember this being one of the issues I had to overcome when I experimented with the different AP (Tactics) specs at the beginning of 1.2.

 

Thank you again for the positive feedback!

[SneiK]

Post removed Edited September 17, 2012 by SneiK

[TheVoidStalker]

This spec wastes no points on anything, .

 

I'm not so convinced on the Rocket Punch talents.

[FeralPug]

I'm not so convinced on the Rocket Punch talents.

 

Rocket punch can do stupid damage with AP, and the 15% bonus crit chance with the Combat Tech armor seals the deal. Set up your itemization like you would with Pyro: get your crit north of 35%, add 15% from the armor set and you're critting more than half the time (without explosive fuel even active!). Flame barrage makes RP cost 0 heat making resource management in AP a cakewalk.

[FeralPug]

Hello, Jerc! Didn't notice your signature at first.

 

We've faced off many times in the Warzones and we know each other's skill very well. While I respect your opinions regarding AP, I'd like to point out TheOpf's guide on AP and the various specs –*including NORSE. I've spoken with Opf and seen him in action with the NORSE spec and I feel its just as on par for damage. Nevertheless, it still has the short comings of AP, and that is the lack of burst and its "turret mode" PFT.

 

If you feel that the free crit and Rocket Punch are viable bursts then I'll take your word for it.

 

While the Opf has written a solid guide, I do think understanding AP only through the lens of PFT doesn't give the full picture of the spec. The "12 second rule" is a decent concept to keep in the back of your mind. That's how often PFT can be up, fully stacked. The problem is as Feta pointed out: PFT is situational. Against good players, i.e. in a ranked game environment, PFT is extremely difficult to pull off on multiple targets. It's often better to hang on to the stack and bide your time, especially in the beginning of a match when everyone has all their cooldowns at their disposal.

 

Flame burst, and Immolate hit incredibly hard. Line up an RS and RP, and we're talking burst. It is still not as bursty as pyro, but the sustained pressure is huge. With the 10% buff to PFT, you might genuinely have a viable alternative to pyro (given the impending pyro nerf and mobility buffs to other classes).

 

Just like with rage Juggies, getting into the AOE mentality can be a detriment to contributing to your team in any meaningful way. You're a slave to that PFT timer, and to the lining up of targets, rather than a slave to the objectives. I'll be keeping my fully stacked PFT in my back pocket for those times of need.

 

Also, maybe it's just me but when I run NORSE my dps goes down. My numbers are lower at the end of the match, and my time to kill goes up.

[CharterMonkKent]

Nice.

 

Could you share your crit number (% and crit rating) and your Aim? Would love to see how you've itemized.

 

I'm really curious about running this AP spec with ion cylinder active:

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/bounty_hunter/powertech/#::fef4e2f12e4f2e12fefef16:

 

Here is where I'm at right now. I'm maxed on coms so I could get my crit higher but I'm waiting for the new pvp main hand to drop. Wish we could add in stim buff to this, but I use the usual AIM/power stim.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/22fb36ec-7423-4cc1-aa53-e78b99a14830

 

I played 5 matches last night and didn't crit over 5k. Mid and high 4ks but not 5. I'm also convinced that the new 3 stack PFT will be incredibly useful. I decide to roll a customary spec (also in the link) since getting those 3 stacks will be easy come 1.4. Right now I find it clunky to try to get 5 stacks with this build. Rotation being Immolate, RB, RP, RS, FB. Only gives you 2 stacks. The build I posted earlier this week drops RS and RB. So the rotation is Immolate, RP, FB, FB, FB, FB, PFT. I'm more convinced than ever that 1.4 will make this class more interesting to play.