[Merc/Commando] Alternate Suggestions to 1.4 Changes

[Xenotoxic]

(PLEASE KEEP THE POSTS CONSTRUCTIVE and support this thread if you feel the same way. Any numbers used are simply examples.)

 

The suggested changes are a step in the right direction, but could be done differently, IMO. Sure, the interrupt is nice, but it doesn't help us when we're getting eaten alive by melee. I know that the posted changes are NOT YET SET IN STONE. That is why I'm here to make some suggestions and hopefully get some support from fellow players.

 

What's wrong with the change to Afterburners / Concussive Force?

 

--1. It requires the user to already be in melee range. This is bad because it gives melee the chance to stop us before we can get distance. If dots are rolling on the target, it will only last 2 seconds and we won't have gained much ground by that time.

 

The argument "Well, root then knock back" is not valid because it shouldn't be required to use 2 GCDs to effectively use the root whereas other classes only need 1.

 

--2. It's strictly limited to Arsenal/Gunnery, leaving Assault/Pyro behind. Pyro/Assault has no RELIABLE kiting tools.

 

--3. It will force people to pvp as Arsenal/Gunnery if they even want a chance of keeping distance from melee, making Pyro/Assault even less desirable as Commandos/Mercenaries.

 

--------------------------

 

Mercenaries and Commandos are missing RELIABLE kiting tools. Here are some suggestions:

(Please note that I'm not suggesting that they ALL be implemented. These are SEPARATE suggestions.)

 

--1. Electronet - A simple ranged 4 second (2 if damaged) root on about 15-20 second cooldown. (baseline ability)

 

--2. This one has 2 parts:

A) Arsenal / Gunnery - Keep the knockback on Rocket Punch / Stock Strike through Afterburners / Concussive Force and add a root. If the target is Immune to the knockback, the root should still be applied.

B) Pyrotech / Assault Specialist - Thermal Detonator / Assault Plastique roots the target until the explosion.

This way both specs benefit and still play differently.

 

--3. Retreat / Jet Jump - You roll or jump back 20 meters to give yourself some space. (baseline ability)

 

--------Quality of life:

 

--4. Chaff Flare / Diversion - Slows all targets within 15 meters for 5 seconds in addition to its current effects. (baseline)

 

--5. Unload / Full Auto - 50% slow over duration. baseline for Commandos and Mercenaries.

 

Any additional Suggestions? Please share your ideas.

 

For those who want to look at the current changes but don't want to go search for them:

Mercenaries and Commandos:

 

-- Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18.

-- Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commando’s ability to further escape the attacker.

-- Tracer Lock/Charged Barrel: Now each stack additionally reduces the activation time of your next Healing Scan/Advanced Medical Probe by 20% per stack.

-- Kolto Residue: Now additionally snares enemies struck by your Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb by 50% for 3 seconds.

-- New Bodyguard/Combat Medic skill, Peacekeeper/Frontline Medic: While protected by your own Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe, firing Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot at an enemy triggers your Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe to heal you on a separate 3-second rate limit.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Xenotoxic

[Cindikle]

(PLEASE KEEP THE POSTS CONSTRUCTIVE and support this thread if you feel the same way. Any numbers used are simply examples.)

 

The suggested changes are a step in the right direction, but could be done differently, IMO. Sure, the interrupt is nice, but it doesn't help us when we're getting eaten alive by melee. I know that the posted changes are NOT YET SET IN STONE. That is why I'm here to make some suggestions and hopefully get some support from fellow players.

 

What's wrong with the change to Afterburners / Concussive Force?

 

--1. It requires the user to already be in melee range. This is bad because it gives melee the chance to stop us before we can get distance. If dots are rolling on the target, it will only last 2 seconds and we won't have gained much ground by that time.

 

If they're full resolve, it doesn't matter. With this change you can root them.

 

The argument "Well, root then knock back" is not valid because it shouldn't be required to use 2 GCDs to effectively use the root whereas other classes only need 1.

 

--2. It's strictly limited to Arsenal/Gunnery, leaving Assault/Pyro behind. Pyro/Assault has no RELIABLE kiting tools.

 

They use a lot of instant abilities. Interrupts and mobility are not as much of an issue. Don't forget the heavy armor.

 

--3. It will force people to pvp as Arsenal/Gunnery if they even want a chance of keeping distance from melee, making Pyro/Assault even less desirable as Commandos/Mercenaries.

 

As stated above it comes with it's own benefits. And if I remember, it also has more burst.

 

--------------------------

 

Mercenaries and Commandos are missing RELIABLE kiting tools. Here are some suggestions:

(Please note that I'm not suggesting that they ALL be implemented. These are SEPARATE suggestions.)

 

--1. Electronet - A simple ranged 4 second (2 if damaged) root on about 15-20 second cooldown. (baseline ability)

 

--2. This one has 2 parts:

A) Arsenal / Gunnery - Keep the knockback on Rocket Punch / Stock Strike through Afterburners / Concussive Force and add a root. If the target is Immune to the knockback, the root should still be applied.

B) Pyrotech / Assault Specialist - Thermal Detonator / Assault Plastique roots the target until the explosion.

This way both specs benefit and still play differently.

 

Try to remember here that you already come with a good amount of CC. If you take this you have to lose something else.

 

--3. Retreat / Jet Jump - You roll or jump back 20 meters to give yourself some space. (baseline ability)

 

This one I could see working. But 10 meters is more realistic. 20 is too far. Maybe a talent in pyro to boost it's range. Otherwise it's the same effect as a knockback, but doesn't add resolve. That alone would make it OP without some rebalancing to your other CC abilities.

 

--4. Chaff Flare / Diversion - Slows all targets within 15 meters for 5 seconds in addition to its current effects. (baseline)

 

15 meters is quite a range. For a full AoE that is. Perhaps a cone effect like how they're working the sorc knockback. Could be an oil slick like ability. Perhaps an oil grenade you throw out that effects an area of 8m diameter. Would be some interesting utility as there are not too many ground effect abilities, they're almost all targeted aoe or point blank.

 

--5. Unload / Full Auto - 50% slow over duration. baseline for Commandos and Mercenaries.

 

Arsenal already has this in a talent. And overall, Pyrotech using a good amount of instants. It has more mobility than Arsenal in PvP.

 

Some other things to consider.

1) You're heavy armor. Your main worry from damage are dots and armor reducing abilities. Most of which I believe you can Cure or stun the target when they use their buff.

2) The melee classes you probably are worried about are most likely getting nerfed in 1.4. Also remember you still have another knockback and a stun. This change gives you three useable CCs before they are full resolve. Before you had two. This change actually makes it easier for you to deal with melee.

3) You're worried about dots on a target, but Arsenal doesn't use dots. Other than an AoE. While you could be concerned about other players dots. That's something other classes also have to deal with and 2m is enough to get range and slow them down. If you plan it and save your Unload you can immobilize them, get range, then use Unload for the snare. They'll either be forced to charge, allowing you to knock them back and burn their gab closer, or to eat the damage.

4) Try to remember that while you may wish for more anti-melee abilities. Those melee also need a way to keep up with their targets.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Cindikle

[Xenotoxic]

Thanks for keeping it constructive.

 

If they're full resolve, it doesn't matter. With this change you can root them.

Roots never affected resolve. I don't quite get the point of this comment. My point was that rocket punch / stock strike require MELEE range to root the target. My enemy can keep attacking/CCing me even after I root them. This makes it a very poor ability to open the gap.

 

They use a lot of instant abilities. Interrupts and mobility are not as much of an issue. Don't forget the heavy armor.

A lot of instants? Thermal Detonator(delayed damage), Incendiary Missile, and Rail shot are the only instant damage dealers (not counting rapid shots). Power Shot and Unload, which require cast time, are essential to dealing damage. I cannot reset Rail Shot without them. Interrupts and mobility ARE an issue. I'll comment on having "heavy armor" further down.

 

As stated above it comes with it's own benefits. And if I remember, it also has more burst.

With the upcoming changes, there really won't be any benefit to being Pyro as Arsenal is getting the new bells and whistles and will be able to contend better with melee. I'd argue that Arsenal is more burst due to Tracer Lock, Rail Shot, and Heatseeker Missiles.

 

Try to remember here that you already come with a good amount of CC. If you take this you have to lose something else.

No more CC than other ranged classes bring. In fact, Mercs and Commandos are short by 1-2 as they have no root.

 

Let me give you a comparison to the other ranged classes' tool box:

 

-Snipers/Slingers - 1 hard stun, 3 slows (Talented) 2 Roots (1 is from knockback), 2 knockbacks (1 talented from ambush), 1 instant break-on-damage CC.

 

-Sorcerers/Sages - 1 hard stun, 2 roots (both talented), 1 knockback, 3 slows, 1 talented AOE break-on-damage CC.

 

-Mercenaries/Commandos - 2 knockbacks (1 talented), 1 hard stun, 1 casted break-on-damage CC, 3 slows (2 talented)

 

I'll skip the other 2 suggestions as they were more about QoL.

 

Some other things to consider.

1) You're heavy armor. Your main worry from damage are dots and armor reducing abilities. Most of which I believe you can Cure or stun the target when they use their buff.

Our main worry from damage is melee, as very few dots do meaningful damage over their duration. You make it sound as though armor completely stops non-dot damage or that it can be ignored, which is not true. The difference in armor between medium (about 24%) and heavy (about 30%) is about 6% damage reduction, give or take 1%. I am unsure of light armor and am guessing that it is somewhere between 16-18% damage reduction in appropriate gear.

 

2) The melee classes you probably are worried about are most likely getting nerfed in 1.4. Also remember you still have another knockback and a stun. This change gives you three useable CCs before they are full resolve. Before you had two. This change actually makes it easier for you to deal with melee.

At the moment, there is no mention of any direct nerfs to damage. Keep in mind that they reduced the range of ranged hard stuns across the board.

 

3) You're worried about dots on a target, but Arsenal doesn't use dots. Other than an AoE. While you could be concerned about other players dots. That's something other classes also have to deal with and 2m is enough to get range and slow them down. If you plan it and save your Unload you can immobilize them, get range, then use Unload for the snare. They'll either be forced to charge, allowing you to knock them back and burn their gab closer, or to eat the damage.

Please see my reply to your first quote. If you walk up to them and root them, they will CC you to waste your root.

 

4) Try to remember that while you may wish for more anti-melee abilities. Those melee also need a way to keep up with their targets.

The same could be said about ranged being able to get away from melee, at least long enough to do meaningful damage.

 

A reliable ranged root is what I'm suggesting in place of the rocket punch / stock strike talented root. The other ranged classes, talented or not, all have a ranged root and a knockback root. Mercenaries and Commandos do not, leaving them short on the kiting race overall. The other suggestions were just that, individual suggestions to get some ideas going. I hope you read my original post carefully, as I tried to be thorough.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Xenotoxic