Will anything actually retain customers?

[Urael]

Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.

 

What continues to surprise me is how much people are in denial about the nature of the broader playerbase in MMOs today. They keep wanting to blame the game producers, when in fact much of the problem of retention rests with the very nature of the player base in 2012. People pontificate about how this is not the early 2000s (or 1990s) and an MMO must offer x, y, z, at launch.... but the reality is that MMOs have evolved a lot from those earlier times, but so has the player base (and not in a good way in the context of retention). Players are largely nomadic, selfish, and consumption based. It's the Mongol Horde, only in virtual form, moving across the plains of the MMO portfolio, killing and conusming everything in it's path. Nomads do not settle down anywhere long enough to leave any lasting impression.

 

So you are saying:

 

FOR THE HORDE!!!!!

 

er wait ...

 

( I agree )

[MetalHed]

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

Quick correction. For us hardcore SW and MMO fans SWG was taken from us so we could have this...uh...game.

 

The casuals will always complain things are hard for them rather than learning game mechanics or evolving the way they play, in the process shaping the game into something basic, easy and dumb then they leave. F2P is an attempt to get them back...we want them back right? right?

 

BW said lots of people told them in their exit questionaire that they didn't want to pay $15 a month...I have a feeling what they meant was this game isn't worth $15 a month.

 

God I hope the next SW MMO actually requires thought and oh I dunno...work.

Edited September 5, 2012 by MetalHed

[Andryah]

Quick correction. For us hardcore SW fans SWG was taken from us so we could have this...uh...game.

 

Quick correction. I'm a hardcore SW fan and I never liked SWG. Shutting SWG down took nothing from me.

 

And I am sure I am not alone.

 

Not all hardcore SW fans are SWG fans. It's two different demographics, which clearly do overlap some but remain two different demographics.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Andryah

[MetalHed]

Quick correction. I'm a hardcore SW fan and I never liked SWG. Shutting SWG down took nothing from me.

 

And I am sure I am not alone.

 

Not all hardcore SW fans are SWG fans. It's two different demographics, which clearly do overlap some but remain two different demographics.

 

yet here you are playing a SW MMO. Do you like it? If this game was shut down so that another SW MMO could exist would you lose something???? Does that change the fact that SWG was shut down so this game could exist???? Not all SWTOR fans are SW fans, yet they're here too, playing right next to you, shaping your game into something I sincerely hope you enjoy. Point is taken...changing my post from "SW fans" to "SW and MMO fans"

Edited September 5, 2012 by MetalHed

[Urael]

SWG was taken from us so we could have this...uh...game.

SWG was taken YEARS ago with the CU. NGE was just salt in the wounds.

 

The casuals will always complain things are hard for them rather than learning game mechanics or evolving the way they play, in the process shaping the game into something basic, easy and dumb then they leave. F2P is an attempt to get them back...we want them back right? right?

 

NO. Causuals are not what you think they are. The new generation of MMORPG "gamer" is capricious. Not all "casuals" are of that same cloth.

 

BW said lots of people told them in their exit questionaire that they didn't want to pay $15 a month...I have a feeling what they meant was this game isn't worth $15 a month.

 

I agree for the most part. But, the general short attention span of todays "gamers" is also a factor. BW was wrong to blame all their woes on subcriptions.

 

I hope the next SW MMO actually requires thought and oh I dunno...work.

 

Game is not even 9 months old and you are throwing in the towel? The "next" SW game will still be at the whim of LA. Enjoy this one for what it is and not what you whished it to be and you will be much happier. You know, less QQ more pew pew!

[CosmicKat]

 

Titan will be interesting, to see if Blizzard just try to make WoW 2 or make something new and different.

 

New and different are not in Blizzard's vocabulary. Whatever they are working on is doomed to failure because they have no successful template from which to copy this time. There is no new EQ (WoW), no Gauntlet (Diablo), or Dune (War/Starcraft).

[MetalHed]

SWG was taken YEARS ago with the CU. NGE was just salt in the wounds.

 

opinion, not gonna post the fact or the date.

 

NO. Causuals are not what you think they are. The new generation of MMORPG "gamer" is capricious. Not all "casuals" are of that same cloth.

 

point taken but lots of them have already left...that's not "capricious".

 

I agree for the most part. But, the general short attention span of todays "gamers" is also a factor. BW was wrong to blame all their woes on subcriptions.

 

Agreed but what state does that leave our game in?

 

Game is not even 9 months old and you are throwing in the towel? The "next" SW game will still be at the whim of LA. Enjoy this one for what it is and not what you whished it to be and you will be much happier. You know, less QQ more pew pew!

 

I'm here for the long haul, just as in SWG. I've found that if I lower my expectations of this game based on BW's track record I am a lot less dissapointed, as you say, however that still leaves me with this...game.

Edited September 5, 2012 by MetalHed

[CosmicKat]

Truer words have never been spoken in this forum.

 

What continues to surprise me is how much people are in denial about the nature of the broader playerbase in MMOs today. They keep wanting to blame the game producers, when in fact much of the problem of retention rests with the very nature of the player base in 2012. People pontificate about how this is not the early 2000s (or 1990s) and an MMO must offer x, y, z, at launch.... but the reality is that MMOs have evolved a lot from those earlier times, but so has the player base (and not in a good way in the context of retention). Players are largely nomadic, selfish, and consumption based. It's the Mongol Horde, only in virtual form, moving across the plains of the MMO portfolio, killing and conusming everything in it's path. Nomads do not settle down anywhere long enough to leave any lasting impression.

 

I would say it is the games that have changed and not necessarily the players. The old playerbase is still out there, but nobody makes games for them/us anymore.

 

It is like saying "turn based strategy games are dead" because almost nobody makes games for that demographic anymore. Yet every few years a new version of Civilization is released and it is always a massive and enduring hit.

 

Or it is like saying "TV is all garbage reality shows and nobody watches drama anymore". It took an HBO to prove that theory wrong. MMO's need a gaming equivalent of HBO.

[MetalHed]

I would say it is the games that have changed and not necessarily the players. The old playerbase is still out there, but nobody makes games for them/us anymore.

 

It is like saying "turn based strategy games are dead" because almost nobody makes games for that demographic anymore. Yet every few years a new version of Civilization is released and it is always a massive and enduring hit.

 

Or it is like saying "TV is all garbage reality shows and nobody watches drama anymore". It took an HBO to prove that theory wrong. MMO's need a gaming equivalent of HBO.

 

/clap

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Jett-Rinn]

Quick correction. I'm a hardcore SW fan and I never liked SWG. Shutting SWG down took nothing from me.

 

And I am sure I am not alone.

 

Not all hardcore SW fans are SWG fans. It's two different demographics, which clearly do overlap some but remain two different demographics.

 

Agreed I was a SWG beta tester from day one that game was a Sandbox players MMO but not a Star Wars MMO. Shutting it down effected me in no way whatsoever.

[Yogol]

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

Last time I checked, WoW still had about 10 times more players then SWTOR...

 

For most players, it's content that matters the most, content that matters the second most and content that matters the third most. Blizzard understands that. Bioware doesn't.

 

And, yes, some argue that PvP matters even more, but if you look at the number of players on PvP servers and the number on PvE servers, that's just not true. PvPers aare very vocal people, but in the end, it's PvE that pays the biggest part of the bill.

[MetalHed]

Agreed I was a SWG beta tester from day one that game was a Sandbox players MMO but not a Star Wars MMO. Shutting it down effected me in no way whatsoever.

 

Can you please explain to me how SWG was not a SW MMO? Does that mean, in your definition, that this game IS a SW MMO? Again, if this game was shut down so that another game could exist would you lose something???

[Urael]

I would say it is the games that have changed and not necessarily the players. The old playerbase is still out there, but nobody makes games for them/us anymore.

 

The games changed because the customers changed. True the old playerbase is still out there, but to make the playerbase broader (attract more subscritions (the model at the time)) the games were made easier which made the games more accessable which generated more revenue (in the case of WoW which was a fluke that has never been repeated).

 

It is like saying "turn based strategy games are dead" because almost nobody makes games for that demographic anymore. Yet every few years a new version of Civilization is released and it is always a massive and enduring hit.

 

The classics never die. I expect to see pong delux any day now.

 

Or it is like saying "TV is all garbage reality shows and nobody watches drama anymore". It took an HBO to prove that theory wrong. MMO's need a gaming equivalent of HBO.

 

Yeah, er no. I would rather not have games emulate that cesspool.

[Yogol]

Agreed I was a SWG beta tester from day one that game was a Sandbox players MMO but not a Star Wars MMO.

 

I do not know what your definition of a Star Wars MMO is, but SWG earned that title just as much as SWTOR does.

 

Call me a sucker, but I still remember the first time Darth Vader landed on Corellia. When I stood eye-to-eye with Luke. When I ran an hour and first saw a tusken. When i got a rebel banner for my q. When I heard R2-D2. When I got my Ewok vendor. When I got my Rancor mount.

 

Those are all pure Star Wars moments, sandbox or not.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Yogol

[Jett-Rinn]

Can you please explain to me how SWG was not a SW MMO? Does that mean, in your definition, that this game IS a SW MMO? Again, if this game was shut down so that another game could exist would you lose something???

 

From the complete and total ravaging of the canon (hand everyone a lightsaber and a Millennium falcon screw the fact that is in the rebellion era time line) To the overwhelming majority of players who would loudly proclaim “I hate SW but love SWG” To the developers (confirmed by Raph Koster) who said: who cares if it sucks it’s star wars that game wasn’t a SW MMO.

 

Twilek S&M ERP guilds do not a Star Wars MMO make.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[MetalHed]

From the complete and total ravaging of the canon (hand everyone a lightsaber and a Millennium falcon screw the fact that is in the rebellion era time line) To the overwhelming majority of players who would loudly proclaim “I hate SW but love SWG” To the developers (confirmed by Raph Koster) who said: who cares if it sucks it’s star wars that game wasn’t a SW MMO.

 

Twilek S&M ERP guilds do not a Star Wars MMO make.

 

welcome to SWTOR...things have really changed. No seriously you're right, nice facts btw, not even gonna start with canon in TOR, however I had no clue that SWG wasn't a SW MMO...wish I'd have known for all those years. Again, If this game was shut down would you lose something???

Edited September 5, 2012 by MetalHed

[Urael]

Twilek S&M ERP guilds do not a Star Wars MMO make.

 

Yeah nothing like a bunch if G.I.R.L.s running around with slave outfits and their companions dressed the same.

[ElitehunterDS]

Last time I checked, WoW still had about 10 times more players then SWTOR...

 

For most players, it's content that matters the most, content that matters the second most and content that matters the third most. Blizzard understands that. Bioware doesn't.

 

And, yes, some argue that PvP matters even more, but if you look at the number of players on PvP servers and the number on PvE servers, that's just not true. PvPers aare very vocal people, but in the end, it's PvE that pays the biggest part of the bill.

3.5 million is not 10 time and no i dont count Chinese time cards, they never should be counted, its like a phone card but with no expiration date (for the sole purpose of Bloating subs number to appear better in the eyes of Activision investors). A player could only log 5 min per month and count in their total subs numbers.

 

Dont make me laugh at Wow got content, patch 4.3 was on the 29th of November of 2011 and the newest "content" patch aka the pre-expansion was released on the 28th, last week..

 

I left that game in may last year and they only added 1 raid since i left lol.

 

Can you please explain to me how SWG was not a SW MMO? Does that mean, in your definition, that this game IS a SW MMO? Again, if this game was shut down so that another game could exist would you lose something???

 

it was only shutdown because the game subs fell under 50k in early 2011, closing was announced in June (was around 25-30k subs at that moment), so its not the announcement who scared players off.

Proof: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

Edited September 5, 2012 by ElitehunterDS

[GalacticKegger]

The only MMO that pushes out content like this is Trion's Rift. there is an event every other month or so, so many that it actually irritates some folks. people will come and go during MMO'S some for raids / dungeons / FP'S and some for xpacks.

 

What retains my sub is the story / lore. my only beef i guess if you could call it that is it is not a sandbox, there is no single player dailies, or real reason to go back to the planets after you hit 50. which is sad because of all the work they put into it. dont get me wrong the heroics are fine but having regular single player dailies / hubs gives players a convieniece of doing them any time they want to even when other player dont.

Though some planets have heroics to go back to, I like to revisit planets with my 50s for a number of reasons. While mostly for achievements, datacrons & farming - helping lowbies out is the real fun for me.

 

The nice thing about a laid back guild is having 50s help low level types with FPs and H4s. It's great for teaching teamwork while allowing them to safely experiment with class abilities so their mechanics and techniques advance as their levels do. We don't "run lowbies through" stuff. We accompany them and pitch in when necessary. High level OTs and OHs make for great mentoring safety nets.

Edited September 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Evalyn]

I'm really upset that this patch update was just minor fixes. I wanted FTP and the new race to come out.

[DarthTHC]

If they had produced content on a schedule even vaguely similar to what they promised and never used our money that was supposed to be funding new content to fund the F2P2W infrastructure, I would subscribe virtually forever.

 

So the answer to your thread title is a definitive yes.

 

Sadly, that's not what they did and it's clearly not the direction they're going.

[Andryah]

I would say it is the games that have changed and not necessarily the players. The old playerbase is still out there, but nobody makes games for them/us anymore.

 

Well, in reality it's symbiotic to a good degree between consumer and producer (true about everything really). Many of the "old playerbase" are still playing, but in the 20 million players world wide, they are a minority fraction (probably less then 5% in fact). So games are no longer designed to old school standards as they won't sell to a majority of today's player base, at least not as a subscription game.

[Andryah]

If they had produced content on a schedule even vaguely similar to what they promised and never used our money that was supposed to be funding new content to fund the F2P2W infrastructure, I would subscribe virtually forever.

 

I don't believe you.

[Urael]

If they had produced content on a schedule even vaguely similar to what they promised and never used our money that was supposed to be funding new content to fund the F2P2W infrastructure, I would subscribe virtually forever.

 

Do we have to have the revenue talk again?

[Soul_of_Flames]

People want PvP like in WAR, but they left WAR.

 

People want sandbox elements like in SWG, but they left SWG.

 

People want community and character customisation like in CoH, but they left CoH.

 

People want the amount of end-game content of WoW, but they left WoW.

 

So even if SWTOR was some ultimate MMO force, bringing together all of these features together and adding in some fully voiced class stories. Would it actually retain a larger amount of people for very long?

People will get board with things eventually. That's why it's important to refresh interest in all of these aspects. However, doing that too will also eventually get people to leave. The point is, there is no way to stop the influx of players coming and going over time. The only thing they can do is cater to the ones who remain and make content accordingly.