Calling the "5% metric" out

[Azrienov]

Since the beginning of this game's existence, Georg Zoeller (who is no longer apart of Bioware... make of that what you will) and his crew have been saying "Everyone's damage is within plus or minus 5% of each other."

 

That's fantastic. And totally useless. That's like saying "We've tripled the value of the value meal." It's a pretty empty statement that you throw out there hoping to confuse people with an opaque set of numbers. Lets think about it for a moment though. The only place where that 5% bonus matters is in the PvE department. It just means that a marauder and a DPS juggernaut can be switched out with no detriment to the damage potential of the operation group IF THAT STATEMENT IS TRUE. I've personally had no experience as to whether or not that tired old line is accurate. I can't say one way or another and honestly, for my purposes, it doesn't matter.

 

Now! Lets go and see what most of the complaints are about. The PVP aspect of the game. Imagine! Each class has a comfort zone. Mercs comfort zone is 30m or better. Marauders comfort zone is standing on the toes of the target. In their comfort zone, they deal the same damage(if your 5% metric is true). Now! Who spends more time in who's metric zone?

 

The marauder! Why? Because he has gap closer after gap closer(even if he's just using his leap 100000 times). Depending on his spec, he also has defensive capabilities that far outstrip most other classes in the game. Imagine the dismay of the mercenary when suddenly his personal bubble is being overrun with a marauder who insists on standing next to him. Don't forget to imagine what he looks like after evisceration.

 

Now! Imagine the operative, getting to his comfort zone.

 

Now! Imagine the Assassin getting to HIS comfort zone.

 

Copy Paste for:

Juggernaut!

 

Powertech!

 

Sorcerer!

 

Sniper!

 

The point here is that everyone has something to get them into their comfort zone, or get them out of someone else's comfort zone! Then we come to the merc... One knockback, no root, no channel protection abilities like snipers. These deficiencies define HOW players will do their damage in PvP. This should be obvious to anyone who plays the game, and doubly so to those who DESIGN the accursed thing.

 

The question here isn't whether or not the deficiency is intended. It should be there as an integral part of the skill curve of a player. What is at question is what kind of tools do players deserve to have to level the playing field. At this time, Mercenaries have no abilities that are not standard issue to other classes. One stun, and one knockback with a non-instant mezz. The design concept behind this is foolish in the extreme, especially considering the number of classes in the game designed around the concept of stealth insertion and elimination, rapid gap closing with snare assistance, or rapid withdrawal in combat.

 

The one class that can honestly say it doesn't have one of these abilities outside of merc is the sniper. But the sniper has channel interrupt immunity with a fantastic AoE that they can center on themselves for melee protection. Mercs don't get that.

 

Just by looking at this, someone could see my argument for a conceptual failure by development for this AC. If there is a counter argument out there, I'm more than happy to consider it.

 

 

TL;DR

 

Shot in the face

 

cuz you can't aim

 

buddy you give sniper

 

a baaaaad name!

Edited August 12, 2012 by Azrienov

[bahdasz]

Since the beginning ... have been saying "Everyone's damage is within plus or minus 5% of each other."

After that I went into tl;dr mode, sorry.

 

So you just pointed out that there can be up to a 10% variance in damage. If the ideal is say 100, that means that the absolute most awesome/fortunate prof is 105 and the absolute worst/screwed is 95.

 

Now... guess where Mercenary BH falls into that equasion in contrast to "everyone else"? Yeah... but still within target parameters. Solutions? Cry, cope or quit, tbh.

Edited August 12, 2012 by bahdasz

[Sinsavz]

After that I went into tl;dr mode, sorry.

 

So you just pointed out that there can be up to a 10% variance in damage. If the ideal is say 100, that means that the absolute most awesome/fortunate prof is 105 and the absolute worst/screwed is 95.

 

Now... guess where Mercenary BH falls into that equasion in contrast to "everyone else"? Yeah... but still within target parameters. Solutions? Cry, cope or quit, tbh.

 

To be honest, the OP took the wrong approach by identifying the 5% damage thing in the thread title, that makes me think of pve and parses and all that zzzzzzzzz crap. The real issue is, as he detailed well in the rest of the post, that in PvP we get pushed out of our comfort zone far too easily. We can be shut down incredibly easy, and when you're shut down your damage is cut to pretty much zero.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Sinsavz

[Azrienov]

After that I went into tl;dr mode, sorry.

 

So you just pointed out that there can be up to a 10% variance in damage. If the ideal is say 100, that means that the absolute most awesome/fortunate prof is 105 and the absolute worst/screwed is 95.

 

Now... guess where Mercenary BH falls into that equasion in contrast to "everyone else"? Yeah... but still within target parameters. Solutions? Cry, cope or quit, tbh.

 

Read the whole post before commenting. You pretty much have no idea what the post was about.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Azrienov

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Mercs have indeed low utility and very few defensive cooldowns to protect them in pvp.

That said, we have self healing abilities, cleanse ability and heavy armor.

 

I dont see what this thread has to do with the 5% though.

Utility cant be compared to damage, if everyone is in their 'comfort zone' they still do the same dps.

 

pvp is also suppose to be about teamwork, which is why so many people cry about classes in this game.

People dont work as a team, they go in pvp alone and expect to find a well organized, intelligent group of other solo que'rs and hope to do a teamwork effort....

[Azrienov]

I dont see what this thread has to do with the 5% though.

Utility cant be compared to damage, if everyone is in their 'comfort zone' they still do the same dps.

 

 

The 5% damage balance has been Biowares ward to making substantial changes in general. They don't want a change aimed at pvp to imbalance a pve element. They don't get that they screwed it all up awhile ago.

[NotRonin]

The '5% damage metric' only applies to PvE. AOE damage spec like powertech can do 1.2 million in a warzone, that is something that single target specs like merc/sniper/marauder will never match.

[Morrolan]

The 5% damage balance has been Biowares ward to making substantial changes in general.

 

Which is ridiculous, what were the changes in 1.2 and 1.3 to various classes if not substantial?

[bbare]

Which is ridiculous, what were the changes in 1.2 and 1.3 to various classes if not substantial?

 

Well, the powertech, for example, got a huge nerf after 1.2. They used to be able to proc PPA railshot every GCD. That was a substantial nerf.

[Azrienov]

Which is ridiculous, what were the changes in 1.2 and 1.3 to various classes if not substantial?

Yeah... those weren't substantial changes. In industry where classes have been redesigned from the ground up, those were no more than tight control tweaks. And very few if any of them addressed the issues that plagued that class.

 

I didn't notice the problem classes Pyro and mara getting a big change in their performance... I noticed that Merc and Operatives got nerfed hard... but not so much the classes everyone complained about.

 

If you think the nerf to PT was bad, they did the same thing to pyro merc, a spec no one complained about. Notice what the FOTMs are please.

 

Thank you

Edited August 14, 2012 by Azrienov

[Macroecon]

Well, the powertech, for example, got a huge nerf after 1.2. They used to be able to proc PPA railshot every GCD. That was a substantial nerf.

 

Incorrect. PT Pyro could *theoretically* proc PPA RS every OTHER GCD. Since it takes one GCD to actually consume it by using RS. Moreover although PT Pyro can no longer theoretically proc PPA RS every other GCD, they were compensated by having the actual percentage chance of proccing RS increased. The net result was a better chance to actually get a RS when you need it, with the side benefit of actually getting some heat resource relief because you weren't spamming FlameBurst as often.