Clearing up the Force.

[EnsignSorrow]

I absolutely agree with the first post. Great thread.

 

Here are many quotes that support this:

 

"Once you accept it, the dark side is with you forever."

―Freedon Nadd to Exar Kun

 

"The dark side, much like a strong, addictive narcotic, affected not only the mind of the user but the appearance as well. As one immersed themselves deeper within the dark side of the Force, its malevolent power would take a toll on the body."

 

"It was possible for these corrupting powers to be potent enough to affect those who were simply in close proximity to a nexus of dark side energy."

 

"Many found the dark side to be addictive, being unable to resist its pull the more they subjected themselves to it. Dark side users became more powerful as their physical bodies slowly decayed."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side_of_the_Force

 

That is canon. That is lore.

[liammozz]

just one thing i would like to point out

 

all the main powers a jedi can use push pull mind trick clairvoyance and so forth a dark jedi can use too so theres your theory out the window

[ProfessorWalsh]

just one thing i would like to point out

 

all the main powers a jedi can use push pull mind trick clairvoyance and so forth a dark jedi can use too so theres your theory out the window

 

Actually that doesn't bother the theory at all. It also isn't a theory, it is a law, it is canonically how things work. There are some powers that exist on both sides, yes, but the methods to use them are wholly different.

[EnsignSorrow]

just one thing i would like to point out

 

all the main powers a jedi can use push pull mind trick clairvoyance and so forth a dark jedi can use too so theres your theory out the window

 

By what logic? You are making a huge leap with that one statement that doesn't even relate to the topic.

 

Balance means stability, and there is no stability in fear, and anger. Those are both fundamentals of the dark side.

 

We're talking about lore here. Not your opinion(s).

 

There are some powers that exist on both sides, yes, but the methods to use them are wholly different.

 

Correct.

Edited August 14, 2012 by EnsignSorrow

[liammozz]

By what logic? You are making a huge leap with that one statement that doesn't even relate to the topic.

 

Balance means stability, and there is no stability in fear, and anger. Those are both fundamentals of the dark side.

 

We're talking about lore here. Not your opinion(s).

 

 

 

Correct.

 

sith use lightside force ability's they have used them nemours times in films, cartoons, and novels, this is not a opinion this is fact,

 

so sith in turn can use both sides of the force as they chose because they have not limited there use of the force, where as jedi will only use lightside force powers limiting there ability of the force

[liammozz]

Actually that doesn't bother the theory at all. It also isn't a theory, it is a law, it is canonically how things work. There are some powers that exist on both sides, yes, but the methods to use them are wholly different.

 

show me two different ways to force push some one or mind trick its all the same

 

and don't give some BS reason like they force push them into lava or mind trick them to kill some one because that's not all the sith do

[Fyurii]

show me two different ways to force push some one or mind trick its all the same

 

and don't give some BS reason like they force push them into lava or mind trick them to kill some one because that's not all the sith do

 

Walsh didn't say anything about the end result of the action taken. Nor did he imply it either.

Jedi draw upon the Force through a state of calmness and inner peace (as close to it as they can attain in whatever circumstances), whereas Sith fuel their use of the Force through their aggresive emotions.

 

Then there are aspects of the Force that are polar opposite of eachother.

Using the Force to heal requires calmness and peace, whilst shooting lightning from your fingertips needs aggression.

That's why it's rare for Jedi to use Lightning, and even rarer for Sith to heal others or themselves in the same way as Jedi. Sith can heal themselves, typically through either focusing their aggressive feelings or draining the life force of those near them, while Jedi can, in extremis, use their own life force to heal/save another living being.

 

Again, it's not about the end result when dealing with usage of the Force, it's the method.

 

There's also a pretty blatant clue in the movies when it comes to "neutral" powers being used by either Jedi or Sith.

They sound different.

When Jedi push/pull something, there's a sound like wind or a rush of air. For Sith, it's a deeper and more ominous sound. Even with a Dark power like Choke, there's a sound effect like roliing thunder when Vader uses it, but it's quieter when Luke does it.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Fyurii

[MyDarkSunshine]

Having used the Force to cloud the mind of the guard on duty, thus making him more reasonable to the suggestion that the Jedi was an authorised visitor, the Jedi moved unhindered through the corridors of the museum. That is, until the Imperial Stormtrooper stepped around the corner on his way to relieve the aforementioned guard. The darkside artefact needed to be destroyed, detection during this mission could cause endless problems and lead to unnecessary death. Reaching out to the Force, the Jedi felt it respond to her call, and with a flick of her wrist the Stormtrooper was thrown into the wall, unconscious before his body slumped down to the floor.

 

Having used the Force to dominate the mind of the guard on duty, ensuring his silence, the Sith stalked through the senate office. That is, until the Jedi Padawan stepped around the corner on her way to meet with the Senator. The mission was supposed to go smooth; this was not smooth. In a sudden rush of anger the Sith summoned the Force, binding it to his will he lashed out with his hand and sent the Padawan crashing into the wall.

Edited August 14, 2012 by MyDarkSunshine

[Aurbere]

sith use lightside force ability's they have used them nemours times in films, cartoons, and novels, this is not a opinion this is fact,

 

so sith in turn can use both sides of the force as they chose because they have not limited there use of the force, where as jedi will only use lightside force powers limiting there ability of the force

 

Certain powers like push and mind trick are neutral powers. Not to confuse neutral with the term 'grey'. Neutral powers are powers that either Jedi or Sith can use. But Sith use these neutral powers in a different way than the Jedi. A Sith's Force Push is more powerful than a Jedi's because it is fueled by powerful emotions. They also use these powers in more agressive ways. Sith will not use Push to knock you down, they use it to send you flying into a different room. They also use mind trick to convince you to either kill yourself or to kill your friends. Jedi use Push and Mind Trick to simply incapacitate, in the case of Push, and to convince you that they are a friend, in the case of Mind Trick.

[grandmthethird]

Certain powers like push and mind trick are neutral powers. Not to confuse neutral with the term 'grey'. Neutral powers are powers that either Jedi or Sith can use. But Sith use these neutral powers in a different way than the Jedi. A Sith's Force Push is more powerful than a Jedi's because it is fueled by powerful emotions. They also use these powers in more agressive ways. Sith will not use Push to knock you down, they use it to send you flying into a different room. They also use mind trick to convince you to either kill yourself or to kill your friends. Jedi use Push and Mind Trick to simply incapacitate, in the case of Push, and to convince you that they are a friend, in the case of Mind Trick.

 

but wait, you said the force and the anti force (for want of a better term) are two different things completely. if there really is a force and an anti force that are separate and different, then nothing should be shared. however if the force is one thing that runs from red to blue then its understandable that things would be shared.

 

also some1 else might be better with the details here but, in one of the FOTJ books

 

 

luke and ben go to see some ppl/rocks can't remember the name of them ang T or somthing like that i think. but its where ben learns to flow walk and sees jacen. the rock ppl tell luke the force is not just dark and light, but tis multi-coloured and they can see the force as a kinda living rainbow, luke himself sees something off this when he goes into one of their caves.

 

 

that would indicate that the dark and light side of the force are still part of the same force not two separate force's. either that or there is not only 2 forces a force and an anti force but many forces. one for each colour of the rainbow. and i think 1 force with many colours is more likely than lots of forces

[DarknessInLight]

I have seen post after post that suggests multiple ideas, that are flatly false.

 

That one can use both sides of the force at the same time, no, just no, this is literally impossible, you would have to simultaneously be angry, hateful and wielding your emotions whilst being peaceful, filled with Zen and controlling your emotions, that right there says everything.

 

So no one can use both sides of the Force simultaneously, you could use the Force and then use it negatively through the Dark Side, but that puts you on the inevitable path of self-destruction, doing the opposite is an extremely rare occurrence, you also cannot 'master both sides of the Force'

 

I hate to break this to you, but there was a Jedi who, during combat, gave himself to the fight, allowed himself to enjoy it, and in doing so, passed into the penumbra of the Dark Side of the Force. His name was Mace Windu.

Why do you think he "held in" during his duel with Darth Sidious when the other Jedi Masters fell before him so quickly? He learned to embrace the Dark Side, while keeping it in check. He is the quintessential "Grey" Jedi.

 

The Force can only be 'used' and the term 'used' is kind of misleading, because 'Light Side' force users do not wield or control the Force, they let it flow through them, guide their actions, their every movement is through the force's will, they embrace the Force and become an extension of it.

 

Jedi do use the Force. They speak of the Force guiding their actions, but it is more of something they speak of in hindsight. They have to manipulate the Force in order to perform certain actions, like pushing something or to perform a Mind Trick. To say that the Force guides their every action is just like people saying God controls their every action. It doesn't work that way. So, by your logic. The Force pulled Obi Wan out of that reactor core in the Theed palace, flipped him over Darth Maul, and made him swing his master's lightsaber, cleaving the Sith Lord in two? Jedi use the Force.

 

At the same time the Sith or Dark Siders in general, try to control and dominate the force, wield it and direct it with their emotions, which is evidently detrimental to their health, some are even reliant on the Dark Side's power to stay alive after long use of it, the fact it clouds their minds and dominates any self-control states more than I can express, a great example is Darth Vader, the very reason he turned to the Dark Side in the first place was to save his woman's life, he ends up being the one whom kills her in the first place.

 

I'm going to disagree with you again on this point. Anakin Skywalker did not turn to the Dark Side to save his wife. He turned to the Dark Side when his mother died on Tatooine. When he slaughtered that Tusken Raider camp, he embraced the Dark Side. His fall began.

 

"Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice." - Yoda

 

By the time he cut off Mace Windu's hand, he was already consumed by the Dark Side of the Force. He just needed to make a decision, and Sidious was promising him the power to save others. He chose the "quick and easy" path of the Dark Side of the Force.

 

Darth Sidious is now known as having been trained by Darth Plagueis. Little is known of this mysterious Sith Lord, except that he knew how to cheat death and remain alive long after his natural lifespan, much like Lord Vitiate in our game. Marka Ragnos knew of this secret before Vitiate. It is quite possible

that Plagueis might be as old as the Sith Emperor(Vitiate)

in TOR.

 

.....many confuse this with achieving Oneness with the Force, where the Force guides you completely, you become the Force in a way, this is both rare and unreliable, as it can leave you as soon as it enters you.

 

Also, the 'grey' side, this does not exist, simply put, their is no 'grey' side of the force, you are either using the Force(which is commonly misinterpreted as the Light Side) or you are using the Dark Side, there are only two paths, no others.

 

Achieving "Oneness with the Force" is nothing more than a Philosophical view on the Force. The Jedi order has had, from time to time, two schools of thought with regards to views on the Force:

 

The Living Force stems from the idea that there is nothing beyond Death. The Force does not exist beyond death. The Jedi's physical form remains upon death and must be cremated in order for the Jedi to join the Force. This philosophical view also addresses how the Jedi should view and deal with all lifeforms. Qui Gon Jinn was a proponent of this view and it led to his maverick attitude and reputation and often put him at odds with the Jedi Council. He retains his consciousness because he never surrendered it to the Force.

 

The Unifying Force is the philosophy of choice among most of the Jedi during the time leading up to the rise of the Galactic Empire. It holds to the tenet of the Jedi Code, that "There is no Death, There is only the Force". It preaches that everything is tied into the Force, dead and alive. Jedi who follow this philosophy believe that, upon death, the Jedi surrenders the physical body and the spirit to the Force. They surrender their consciousness and vanish upon death, which is why Yoda and Obi Wan vanish upon death. Qui Gon Jinn taught Yoda and Obi Wan how to "cheat death" and retain their consciousness beyond death through the Force.

[Aurbere]

but wait, you said the force and the anti force (for want of a better term) are two different things completely. if there really is a force and an anti force that are separate and different, then nothing should be shared. however if the force is one thing that runs from red to blue then its understandable that things would be shared.

 

also some1 else might be better with the details here but, in one of the FOTJ books

 

 

luke and ben go to see some ppl/rocks can't remember the name of them ang T or somthing like that i think. but its where ben learns to flow walk and sees jacen. the rock ppl tell luke the force is not just dark and light, but tis multi-coloured and they can see the force as a kinda living rainbow, luke himself sees something off this when he goes into one of their caves.

 

 

that would indicate that the dark and light side of the force are still part of the same force not two separate force's. either that or there is not only 2 forces a force and an anti force but many forces. one for each colour of the rainbow. and i think 1 force with many colours is more likely than lots of forces

 

Now, now. By neutral I meant that both sides have the ability to use them. Powers like Push and Mind trick are powers present for both factions. Hence the term neutral. The Dark Side Push is more powerful due to being enhanced by strong emotions.

 

I tend not to trust the Aing Tii. They are not the authority on the Force. Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Jedi ever and he has collected the second most amount of Jedi and Sith lore ever. (I believe the PT era had the most knowledge at their command). The Aing Tii are a Force cult, they are not truly masters of the Force. They may be able to teach certain abilities, but they do not have the knowledge that it takes to be a Jedi or Sith. Not that they want to be.

 

We must also remember that statements made by characters are not canon. The Light/Dark statement by Aing Tii does not mean anything. It is merely from their point of view. They look at the Force like they do normal people. The Force is not a normal person. It is a benevoloent spirit that is pretty much the ultimate will in the galaxy. It's only counter is the Dark Side. If the Force was Light and Dark, why would it allow massive wars that take trillions of lives? That is the Dark Side, or Anti-Force. The Dark Side is the opposite of the Force, a completely separate entity.

[DarknessInLight]

The Dark Side is the opposite of the Force, a completely separate entity.

 

I cannot agree with you on this. The Dark Side is not a separate entity. The Force has a rigid duality to it when it comes to sentient beings. The Light Side/Dark Side is all part of the Force. But we are arguing symantics, aren't we?

[liammozz]

Certain powers like push and mind trick are neutral powers. Not to confuse neutral with the term 'grey'. Neutral powers are powers that either Jedi or Sith can use. But Sith use these neutral powers in a different way than the Jedi. A Sith's Force Push is more powerful than a Jedi's because it is fueled by powerful emotions. They also use these powers in more agressive ways. Sith will not use Push to knock you down, they use it to send you flying into a different room. They also use mind trick to convince you to either kill yourself or to kill your friends. Jedi use Push and Mind Trick to simply incapacitate, in the case of Push, and to convince you that they are a friend, in the case of Mind Trick.

 

this is from the SW wookieepedia

 

Known light side Force powers and techniquesEdit

The light side of the Force was generally harder to use than the dark side, this being because dark side Force powers are all aggressive and easily fueled by anger or hatred. This allowed darksiders to advance faster, but they were not inherently more powerful than the lightsiders. Light-sided Force abilities are virtually all defensive and passive in nature. While there are light side abilities for increasing ones strength or courage, or incapacitating an enemy, none of them are truly aggressive (with the notable exceptions of Electric Judgment, Sever Force, and Combustion).

 

Jedi using the Force

Alter Environment

Animal friendship

Battlemind

Beam of light

Combustion

Cure Disease

Cure Poison

Droid Disable

Electric Judgment

Force blinding

Force Enlightenment

Force healing

Force Light

Force Meld

Force persuasion

Force projection

Force Stun

Force Valor

Hibernation Trance

Malacia

Mind trick

Morichro

Plant Surge

Protection bubble

Ray

Revitalize

Sever Force

Shatterpoint

Tutaminis

Wall Of Light

 

you you telling me if a jedi turned to the dark side he would lose the ability to use these ability's even though he spent years training and perfecting them?

[Aurbere]

I hate to break this to you, but there was a Jedi who, during combat, gave himself to the fight, allowed himself to enjoy it, and in doing so, passed into the penumbra of the Dark Side of the Force. His name was Mace Windu.

Why do you think he "held in" during his duel with Darth Sidious when the other Jedi Masters fell before him so quickly? He learned to embrace the Dark Side, while keeping it in check. He is the quintessential "Grey" Jedi.

 

 

 

Jedi do use the Force. They speak of the Force guiding their actions, but it is more of something they speak of in hindsight. They have to manipulate the Force in order to perform certain actions, like pushing something or to perform a Mind Trick. To say that the Force guides their every action is just like people saying God controls their every action. It doesn't work that way. So, by your logic. The Force pulled Obi Wan out of that reactor core in the Theed palace, flipped him over Darth Maul, and made him swing his master's lightsaber, cleaving the Sith Lord in two? Jedi use the Force.

 

 

 

I'm going to disagree with you again on this point. Anakin Skywalker did not turn to the Dark Side to save his wife. He turned to the Dark Side when his mother died on Tatooine. When he slaughtered that Tusken Raider camp, he embraced the Dark Side. His fall began.

 

"Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice." - Yoda

 

By the time he cut off Mace Windu's hand, he was already consumed by the Dark Side of the Force. He just needed to make a decision, and Sidious was promising him the power to save others. He chose the "quick and easy" path of the Dark Side of the Force.

 

Darth Sidious is now known as having been trained by Darth Plagueis. Little is known of this mysterious Sith Lord, except that he knew how to cheat death and remain alive long after his natural lifespan, much like Lord Vitiate in our game. Marka Ragnos knew of this secret before Vitiate. It is quite possible

that Plagueis might be as old as the Sith Emperor(Vitiate)

in TOR.

 

 

 

Achieving "Oneness with the Force" is nothing more than a Philosophical view on the Force. The Jedi order has had, from time to time, two schools of thought with regards to views on the Force:

 

The Living Force stems from the idea that there is nothing beyond Death. The Force does not exist beyond death. The Jedi's physical form remains upon death and must be cremated in order for the Jedi to join the Force. This philosophical view also addresses how the Jedi should view and deal with all lifeforms. Qui Gon Jinn was a proponent of this view and it led to his maverick attitude and reputation and often put him at odds with the Jedi Council. He retains his consciousness because he never surrendered it to the Force.

 

The Unifying Force is the philosophy of choice among most of the Jedi during the time leading up to the rise of the Galactic Empire. It holds to the tenet of the Jedi Code, that "There is no Death, There is only the Force". It preaches that everything is tied into the Force, dead and alive. Jedi who follow this philosophy believe that, upon death, the Jedi surrenders the physical body and the spirit to the Force. They surrender their consciousness and vanish upon death, which is why Yoda and Obi Wan vanish upon death. Qui Gon Jinn taught Yoda and Obi Wan how to "cheat death" and retain their consciousness beyond death through the Force.

 

1. All Jedi have an inner darkness. It is abou controlling it and keeping it at bay. Mace Windu created the Vaapad style because he wanted to use his inner darkness and turn it into a weapon for good. During his fight with Sidious, he came extremely close to falling to the Dark Side. Had Anakin not intervened, it is likely that Mace would have fallen if he could not control his emotions.

 

2. Anakin used his emotions regularly due to starting at such an old age. He was never able to control his emotions. He never received the training to do so. And when someone tried, he brushed it off. This is because of Palpatine. Palpatine played with Anakin's mind like silly puddy. Given the right circumstances, Palpatine could have made Anakin kill any Jedi much earlier. Palpatine enhanced Anakin's emotions by countering Jedi teachings with subtle Dark Side teachings. The story of Plaguies is the perfect example. hearing this story spurred Anakin to find an "alternative method" to "saving" Padme. This started his fall to the Dark Side imo.

 

3. Possible, but unlikely. That would make the Rule of Two meaningless. Plaquies and Sidious are products of the RoT. The perfect plan to destroy the Jedi.

 

4. I believe the NJO has discounted the Unifying Force theory. Ask Walsh.

[smartalectwo]

I cannot agree with you on this. The Dark Side is not a separate entity. The Force has a rigid duality to it when it comes to sentient beings. The Light Side/Dark Side is all part of the Force. But we are arguing symantics, aren't we?

 

Pick your eastern philosophy, I suppose. Are the Light Side/Dark Side yin and yang as in Taoism, with each carrying positive and negative characteristics? Or are the Light Side/Dark Side more positive/negative karma, as in Buddhism, where negative karma is to be avoided? Given the general theme of the Dark Side, I'd tend to go with the latter myself...

Edited August 14, 2012 by smartalectwo

[Aurbere]

I cannot agree with you on this. The Dark Side is not a separate entity. The Force has a rigid duality to it when it comes to sentient beings. The Light Side/Dark Side is all part of the Force. But we are arguing symantics, aren't we?

 

The Force is not a sentient being. It is a benevolent spirit that is at work all across the SW universe. A spirit that focuses on peace does not create war. Hence the separate Dark Side. It is G-canon that the Force is all Light. The embodiment of peace and tranquility, the natural flow of the galaxy.

[Aurbere]

this is from the SW wookieepedia

 

Known light side Force powers and techniquesEdit

The light side of the Force was generally harder to use than the dark side, this being because dark side Force powers are all aggressive and easily fueled by anger or hatred. This allowed darksiders to advance faster, but they were not inherently more powerful than the lightsiders. Light-sided Force abilities are virtually all defensive and passive in nature. While there are light side abilities for increasing ones strength or courage, or incapacitating an enemy, none of them are truly aggressive (with the notable exceptions of Electric Judgment, Sever Force, and Combustion).

 

Jedi using the Force

Alter Environment

Animal friendship

Battlemind

Beam of light

Combustion

Cure Disease

Cure Poison

Droid Disable

Electric Judgment

Force blinding

Force Enlightenment

Force healing

Force Light

Force Meld

Force persuasion

Force projection

Force Stun

Force Valor

Hibernation Trance

Malacia

Mind trick

Morichro

Plant Surge

Protection bubble

Ray

Revitalize

Sever Force

Shatterpoint

Tutaminis

Wall Of Light

 

you you telling me if a jedi turned to the dark side he would lose the ability to use these ability's even though he spent years training and perfecting them?

 

First off, don't use a wiki. Anyone can edit them to make anything they want. I could go on there and say Jar Jar was a great Jedi Master. is it true? No, but I could do that if I wanted to.

 

Secondly, I never said that you would lose Light Side powers by joining the Dark Side. I never said anything like that. certain powers that are inherently Light Side are more difficult to use for Dark Siders. The Dark Side is the quick and easy path. Lots of power early on, but not the same results had you taken the difficult path of the Light. If a Jedi goes Dark, he still retains those powers. But Dark Side powers yield greater results and are benfitted from the Dark Side greater than if you used a Light Side power. A Light Side power has a diminished effect when used by Sith, same with Jedi and Dark Side powers.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Aurbere

[liammozz]

First off, don't use a wiki. Anyone can edit them to make anything they want. I could go on there and say Jar Jar was a great Jedi Master. is it true? No, but I could do that if I wanted to.

 

Secondly, I never said that you would lose Light Side powers by joining the Dark Side. I never said anything like that. certain powers that are inherently Light Side are more difficult to use for Dark Siders. The Dark Side is the quick and easy path. Lots of power early on, but not the same results had you taken the difficult path of the Light. If a Jedi goes Dark, he still retains those powers. But Dark Side powers yield greater results and are benfitted from the Dark Side greater than if you used a Light Side power. A Light Side power has a diminished effect when used by Sith, same with Jedi and Dark Side powers.

 

so its one power that can be used two different ways, controlling it or letting it flow through you but that's just just putting it simple there are other factors to consider

 

take a utopian dictator they want peace put also want power there not cruel but punish justly, if this person was a jedi the order would punish them, if they was a sith the other sith would point and laugh so where do they fit in

 

a force sensitive person who has hand no contact with the order or sith, uses his powers to get food for his family and cheats in the casino now and then he's not entirely evil he's just trying to get by does that make him dark side for looking after his family?

[grandmthethird]

one last thing from FOTJ, in apocalypse

 

 

the kiliks explain about 3 beings, the creators, gods or something. the son who is the darkside. the daughter who is lightside, and the father who keeps the balance. now these 3 are all family members. meaning they are the same, force entity's, the girl has the lightside from her father and the boy has the darksdie from his father. so within him the father has both dark and light. and when anakin skywalker met them the father wanted him to become the new keeper of the balance because he also had dark and light within him.

 

 

that whole things makes alot more sense if we are talking about a single force. the keeper of the balance having both sides of the same force. and not two separate forces of which balance can only be obtained when the light pushes out the dark

[liammozz]

one last thing from FOTJ, in apocalypse

 

 

the kiliks explain about 3 beings, the creators, gods or something. the son who is the darkside. the daughter who is lightside, and the father who keeps the balance. now these 3 are all family members. meaning they are the same, force entity's, the girl has the lightside from her father and the boy has the darksdie from his father. so within him the father has both dark and light. and when anakin skywalker met them the father wanted him to become the new keeper of the balance because he also had dark and light within him.

 

 

that whole things makes alot more sense if we are talking about a single force. the keeper of the balance having both sides of the same force. and not two separate forces of which balance can only be obtained when the light pushes out the dark

 

that's also in the clone wars when ani obi and snips end up on that planet with the three force beings on

[Aurbere]

so its one power that can be used two different ways, controlling it or letting it flow through you but that's just just putting it simple there are other factors to consider

 

take a utopian dictator they want peace put also want power there not cruel but punish justly, if this person was a jedi the order would punish them, if they was a sith the other sith would point and laugh so where do they fit in

 

a force sensitive person who has hand no contact with the order or sith, uses his powers to get food for his family and cheats in the casino now and then he's not entirely evil he's just trying to get by does that make him dark side for looking after his family?

 

We can't talk about Light and Dark when it comes to someone who is untrained and fighting for survival. Poor example, sorry.

 

Utopian dictator. Jedi do not seek power. They seek to further their connection to the Force. Never has the Jedi Order sanctioned a grab for power.

[Aurbere]

one last thing from FOTJ, in apocalypse

 

 

the kiliks explain about 3 beings, the creators, gods or something. the son who is the darkside. the daughter who is lightside, and the father who keeps the balance. now these 3 are all family members. meaning they are the same, force entity's, the girl has the lightside from her father and the boy has the darksdie from his father. so within him the father has both dark and light. and when anakin skywalker met them the father wanted him to become the new keeper of the balance because he also had dark and light within him.

 

 

that whole things makes alot more sense if we are talking about a single force. the keeper of the balance having both sides of the same force. and not two separate forces of which balance can only be obtained when the light pushes out the dark

 

I don't really care for the throne of balance thing. It goes against all G-canon sources describing the Force. Their view of the Force is wrong if we look at G-canon. And if we look at them. They have no real knowledge of the Force. They don't really know what they are talking about. They speak of the Force as if it is some sort of sentient human when it is not. The Force is the guiding spirit of the galaxy. Seeking peace and traquility. When the Dark Side rises, the Force seeks ways to remove it and create peace. Light and Dark cannot co-exist peacefully. Dark Side seeks destruction, to destroy the Force. Would you live with a psychopathic killer?

[Aurbere]

that's also in the clone wars when ani obi and snips end up on that planet with the three force beings on

 

So if the Son is the embodiment of the Dark Side, how come he wanted to take over the galaxy? If Light and Dark are supposed to co-exist in peace, how come the Son attempted to kill his off of Mortis? Light and Dark cannot co-exist in peace. Look at Sidious, would you want the true embodiment of the Dark Side running around? I wouldn't, and apparently GL doesn't either. Hence, the ending of ROTJ.

[liammozz]

We can't talk about Light and Dark when it comes to someone who is untrained and fighting for survival. Poor example, sorry.

 

Utopian dictator. Jedi do not seek power. They seek to further their connection to the Force. Never has the Jedi Order sanctioned a grab for power.

 

a untrained force user would be the prime case study to see the force used with no outside influence in its natural habitat its be best example on what the force truly represents

 

am sorry but destroying the sith empire and allying its self with the republic in a all out war is not very parasitic and is grabbing power the jedi aren't as squeaky clean as you like to make them out