Hitting 50 makes me want to quit

[SithEater]

BLAH... It's ridiculously unbalanced.

It takes like two weeks of dailies to grind a BM set. Less whining and more playing.

[Nyoro]

It takes like two weeks of dailies to grind a BM set. Less whining and more playing.

 

Sounds like the worst two weeks of a mans life.

[Zwipe]

Im waiting for the day they remove expertise....and everyone gets killed in two hits....

 

then people are going to cry for nerfs, etc....

 

Leave expertise in.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Zwipe

[Glower]

Remove Expertise. Use the bolstering system (the same system used in the 10-49 bracket) to alleviate the disparity between players in Ops gear vs those without. Done. Now everyone can PvP for fun instead of the gear grind (just like the 10-49 bracket).

 

^this.

But it's not happen cuz Bioware not playing/testing in their own game!

[Rosickyownsbale]

Interesting, and up to this point I had resisted calling anyones points or arguments the 'worst' out of respect for people having different opinions. Variety being the spice of life and all that.

 

I will try and answer your superior opinion as best I can, forgive me if it is not up to your high standards.

 

Coaches in many, if not all sports (including mine), will tell you that practice against the best is always the most beneficial way to train. As I did in my sport, I trained against the best at the time and sure I got completely murdered for months but eventually, through adapting and analysing I learned how they operated and so my talents increased accordingly.

 

This, in my opinion, is no different to how things work in the game. By competing with players who are way above me in gear and skill etc, I learn what to do, who to avoid and who to confront.

 

To take your system in my training, I would compete against people of equal level for months and then get murdered by the first skilled person I come across. At least under the system that is in place now, the majority will have picked up enough skill/gear to survive or be competitive,

 

As a final point, your arguments about equal gear and only skill would stand up if SWTOR was the only game to have the system. I suppose next you will argue that even first person shooters like COD: Black Ops has a fair multiplayer system that requires no grind? So I can play the single player campaign, jump right into multiplayer pvp and be competitive? No I need to grind for better perks/weapons/gear while all the time being murdered by players who are prestiged 50000 etc....

 

And thats a single player.....MMORPGS are designed by nature to be LONG term.....but that is apparently too long....

 

Thats the point. FPS games are well ahead of mmo's in this respect. Battlefield 3 and COD have progression which is meaningful and adds fun to the game. It gives you a small advantage to have a red dot sight on your machine gun but it doesnt just automatically make you invincible.

 

A good analogy would be if fps games had unlocks where you got 200% health. Now that would give you an insane advantage.

 

What swtor does badly is apply a 2005 mechanic which has failed in basically every game. People, generally, dont like getting owned just because some guy has put in more time to acquire virtual items than them. If you play alot you should be better by skill, why do you also need "I win" items.

 

People moan about pay 2 win games. Swtor is worse - its "Grind 2 win". It doesnt matter how skillful you are. If you dont have the best gear then you cant compete and it wont be fun.

 

Also I dont find being geared and owning recruit gear fresh 50's as fun either. Thats equally as lame and basically means swtor is a fail pvp game. Maybe its pve is good idk , but pvp this game basically doesnt exist.

[SithEater]

Sounds like the worst two weeks of a mans life.

A) you wouldn't know cause you and the others in this thread would rather sit around whining for a month hoping they will make everyone even steven so you don't have to put any effort into being competitive, rather than just do the damn dailies for two weeks lol. You want them to hand you what others have already earned.

 

B) If two weeks of pvp sounds bad why do you want to pvp at all?

[SithEater]

People moan about pay 2 win games. Swtor is worse - its "Grind 2 win". It doesnt matter how skillful you are. If you dont have the best gear then you cant compete and it wont be fun.

A) ALL MMOs are grindy. ALL of them. So deal or find another genre.

 

B) If you are silly enough to believe its all about gear and not at all about skill them you simply are not experienced enough to see the difference between the two.

 

Pssshhh it takes no skill to win at basketball when you are 7 feet tall, all you need is height and you can beat anybody. Right?

[MrNoRubber]

I like a game where i am rewarded for being better, i like a game where i am rewarded for my time. If it takes a gear grind or if the rewards are better gear/skills, i like that. I want to be rewarded for success, otherwise there is no hook, and no point for me to keep playing when i get bored or after a few games. alot of players like rewards, alot of players like gear.

[_Corew]

It takes like two weeks of dailies to grind a BM set. Less whining and more playing.

 

Less if you are smart and save your comms while levling up, buy rated comms when capping.

[Toweleeeie]

I remember this one time when I hit 50 and there wasnt even recruit gear and i had EARN Centurion gear. Oh man that was fun!

 

STOP QQING AND JUST REROLL A NEW TOON AND PVP IN THE UNDER 50 BRACKET AGAIN!

[Karkais]

People defending expertise make me fuming with rage.

 

According to you its perfectly fine that the OTHER people have to grind by YOUR rules, instead of YOU having to grind by THEIR rules (PVE). If you cared about it, youd join a guild and grind you that PVE gearset. This is no argument. It is childishness. And it doesn't change the fact that you are still talking about GEAR instead of SKILL.

 

The only reason expertise exists is because pvp needs some sort of rewards, too bad it destroys the fun out of pvp in the process. I wish someone got a BW employee talking about this issue. It seems Bioware doesn't understand whats wrong.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Karkais

[MrNoRubber]

Im pretty sure if you are crying about expertise your using it as a scapegoat, even on my 4th 50 when i was in recruit gear i was still doing great. stop using gear as a scapegoat. L2P. dont take the rewards out of the F'ing game.

[AutoCocker]

In all honesty what this game needs is an / XP Off feature. I have multiple 50's and while i do have the gear to PvP in the 50 bracket i still prefer the 10-49 area. But that's also because i think having such things as expertise in a game are crap. Guess I'm just old school like that as i know a lot of ppl love it.

 

Anyway if they added a /XP Off you could have the best of both worlds. People who want to hit 50 and grind for the pvp gear etc go for it. And if you don't hell stay 49 forever. Besides as it stands we all know the bread and butter of the game is currently in the lower levels anyway.

[SithEater]

I remember this one time when I hit 50 and there wasnt even recruit gear and i had EARN Centurion gear. Oh man that was fun

ROFL

 

Centurion, then Champion to finally then grind the BM gear that these guys are pissing and moaning about having to take two weeks to get lol.

[Sathid]

Outlaws Den has chests that drop PVP gear for those who do not know.

[SithEater]

The only reason expertise exists is because pvp needs some sort of rewards, too bad it destroys the fun out of pvp in the process. I wish someone got a BW employee talking about this issue. It seems Bioware doesn't understand whats wrong.

I will quote myself as I have already answered this.

 

...what the **** do you think is going to happen if they do away with expertise and you roll into a WZ with Columi gear on your 17k health toon and run into a 27k Campaign geared Shadow tank? You are going to get roflstomped. Forget the body bag and grab a mop.

 

You know what the practical application of removing Expertise gear would be? Instead of doing pvp to get better gear you gotta now find a guild running high end OPs and run weeks and weeks to get your Campaign gear to now be able to compete in battlegrounds. Thats right instead of running PVP to get better in PVP you now have to run PVE to get better in PVP. This does not stand to even to broadest definitions of reason.

 

Now I know some of the I smoke my breakfast folks are going to say..."so give out blah blah tokens to get get blah blah gear and make it all fair". Ok so now grp A runs headlong into a OP over and over getting stomped to finally beat the best of the bosses to get the best of the gear so they can have the same gear as grp B who simply did pvp over and over that rewards you win or lose. Fair?

 

Expertise is there for a reason like it or not.

 

As to the first part were you wrongly claim that the only reason why players win is cause of gear, well if you believe that then you aren't good enough to tell between good players and bad, regardless of what they are wearing.

[Rosickyownsbale]

I like a game where i am rewarded for being better, i like a game where i am rewarded for my time. If it takes a gear grind or if the rewards are better gear/skills, i like that. I want to be rewarded for success, otherwise there is no hook, and no point for me to keep playing when i get bored or after a few games. alot of players like rewards, alot of players like gear.

 

Yeh the mmo addicts like gear and rewards and the grind. The rest of us like rewards and progression sure. But not HAVING to progress to even be able to compete. That sucks.

 

And thats why Swtor is going free to play JUST because of GW2 beta only. When gw2 comes out then BW and Ea know that swtor is dead and hence they went F2p

[Zunayson]

So you're frustrated with pvp because you can't beat all the people who've been lvl 50 longer than you. You don't like the disparity between yourself and a player who is wearing better gear than you? I would ask you, when you were pvping from lvls 1-49, and you were that lvl 40-49 guy who was just obliterating those lvl 10-20 guys because you had better gear and access to more skills than them, were you upset with the disparity then?

 

If you don't like the gear grind that's one thing. But complaining about a guy who can kill you because he has better equipment than you is pointless. That guy who is wiping the floor with your face was wearing recruit gear at one point in time and he was getting his face smashed in too.

 

Either keep plugging away, perhaps get some people to help you pound those war heroes down, or go play a different game that has pvp you like.

 

He wasn't necessarily ROFLstomping people in the 10-49 bracket. And he probably got the equivalent of a rofl stomp by someone of a higher level - but it's less obvious about gear because the gap is smaller.

[Rosickyownsbale]

Im pretty sure if you are crying about expertise your using it as a scapegoat, even on my 4th 50 when i was in recruit gear i was still doing great. stop using gear as a scapegoat. L2P. dont take the rewards out of the F'ing game.

 

So its skill when you can hit a rotation with recruit gear vs a fully geared dude and he will literally lose no health (maybe 1k) whilst killing you in 3/4 hits? Is that skill? You do realise that this isnt gw2? No dodging. Lower skill level of abilities. Boring CC effects which mean the following happens when you arent geared:

 

1, Get stunned

2, If you have break stun u use it but cooldown is huge

3, Even if you use it get stunned again

4, 1 geared player crushes you before stun even breaks

 

So your not even in control of your character for most of the time. Is that fun? I wouldnt even call pvp in this game a "game" its more like a horror show. Often you arent even controlling your dude and just getting owned by the 3 cc's every class has. Whilst you get 1 cc break with a MUCH longer cooldown than all the cc's.

 

This game is a bad joke in terms of pvp. My evidence? This game has lost 1.5m subs in 6 months and is going f2p despite being star wars and costing $200m

[Achyllis]

And thats why Swtor is going free to play JUST because of GW2 beta only. When gw2 comes out then BW and Ea know that swtor is dead and hence they went F2p

 

You make a very thought provoking statement here. These devs have said in the past people play far more PvP than they expected. Further displaying the amateurism on their part for not understanding the market, but I digress.

 

GW2 has a unique, skill based system where folks compete on a more level playing field. If internal TOR data shows people play PvP to 50 then unsub out of boredom/frustration, which is probably true in many cases, then you may have a great point.

 

MMO fans want PvP. Many like to grind and will stay here. The casual MMO players, on the other hand, clearly have fled this game in droves. To a casual gamer - why deal with gear grind elitism in stun wars for a sub fee when I can PvP on level terms for free?

 

EA's answer? Here there be light sabers. Roll Sent/Mara.

[Rosickyownsbale]

You make a very thought provoking statement here. These devs have said in the past people play far more PvP than they expected. Further displaying the amateurism on their part for not understanding the market, but I digress.

 

GW2 has a unique, skill based system where folks compete on a more level playing field. If internal TOR data shows people play PvP to 50 then unsub out of boredom/frustration, which is probably true in many cases, then you may have a great point.

 

MMO fans want PvP. Many like to grind and will stay here. The casual MMO players, on the other hand, clearly have fled this game in droves. To a casual gamer - why deal with gear grind elitism in stun wars for a sub fee when I can PvP on level terms for free?

 

EA's answer? Here there be light sabers. Roll Sent/Mara.

 

Agreed. Its not rocket science that pvp is hugely important and popular. At the end of the day AI can never match humans in ANY game. Playing against Ai in flashpoints and things is easy when you learn the "secret" to get it over on the AI. Its mega lame. Even raids is things like click button 5 every 5 seconds and interriput this ability or something. Very lame and predictable.

 

One day MMO devs will catch up with the rest of the gaming world who left single player "vs AI" games behind in 2006 (except for niche games). Look at cod. Nobody really picks that up for the single player.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Rosickyownsbale

[Daethorz]

People spitting on noobs and yelling at them is common in most mmos.

 

The issue is this game's endgame content is not fun and plays out just like WoW.

[Cymate]

Trouble is that we see the awesome SWTOR combat system and we imagine how great a real PVP game could be created with it.

 

COD has a huge gear gap between level 80 and let's say level 25. Weapons at 25 are so weak that face to face the level 80 always win, but, if I catch the same guy in the back with a RPG! he is toasted bad.

Or if at level 30 I pick a fast gun in close combat I have good chances against a heavy 80.

 

SWTOR needs the same toughtfull re-design of PVP.

[Karkais]

Im pretty sure if you are crying about expertise your using it as a scapegoat, even on my 4th 50 when i was in recruit gear i was still doing great. stop using gear as a scapegoat. L2P. dont take the rewards out of the F'ing game.

 

The point that Im trying to make is that expertise is a completely superficial grind added on top of PVP. If youre doing great with recruit gear, great, what would prevent you doing well WITHOUT expertise?

 

Im not saying I can't do well in PVP as it is, but defending expertise with your arguments is just so astoundingly stupid it makes me lose my faith in humanity.

 

Also about the post I quoted, the same argument can be DIRECTLY applied to getting PVE gear. Oh with one exception. You can actually get pvp gear SOLO. Insert a rant about MMO and grouping etc.

 

ps. Im using pvp currently to augment leveling process of my alts, I have no interest whatsoever to continue pvping after lvl 50 with the current system.

 

PVP should be easy to jump into and fun. The current system is not.

 

I will quote myself as I have already answered this.

 

As to the first part were you wrongly claim that the only reason why players win is cause of gear, well if you believe that then you aren't good enough to tell between good players and bad, regardless of what they are wearing.

 

So tell me, how often to do queue to warzones without PVP gear just for the challenge, eh?

 

PVP could be made so that warzones ignore all bonuses from gear and just use bolstered base stats.. Now that would be even. But of course whiners like you dont want to give up what you already grinded.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Karkais

[frst]

I quit SWTOR 2 days ago because of Lvl 50 PVP frustrations.

 

My suggestions for fixing it, not that I hold any hope of it happening:

- All 50 WZ's ignore gear stats, period. Make it a game of skill, not gear.

- Rewards for winning WZ's come in 2 forms

1. personal tokens, that can be spent on speeders, pets, appearance gear, or added to your guild's fund to buy cool stuff (capital ships, etc

2. every WZ win also adds an amount of points to the Empire/Republic's war effort. If the Empire have a strong run and are winning lots of WZ's and take the lead, all Empire players get the benefit of "the war effort going well". Something like <50's getting an experience bonus, lvl50's get credit payments, etc

Edited August 16, 2012 by frst