Remove gear stats from PvP please.

[Helistin]

Remove gear stats also from PVE please.

[Ravashakk]

Yes you right it is about swimmer skills and genetics, but not about his gear. have you ever seen that swimmers work hard for months to get better trousers, and after getting them the magic happens the can swim 15% faster.

 

Are you really that obtuse that you can only equate gear in this game to be nothing more than gear in the real world? No, Michael Phelps is not swinging a lightsaber, nor does he have relics that have a 10% chance per stroke to stun the swimmer in the lane next to him.

[Roiz]

If you don't like the way this game handles progression....you have options.

Yes. I have two options:

 

1. Biioware fix PvP by removing gear affect onPvP

2. Quit this game

[Ravashakk]

Technically, it is you who doesn't enjoy PvP but instead enjoys CvC. He wants actual PvP and you want to keep the game as is (CvC).

 

It is a matter of preference, but is far less confusing when you use the appropriate terminology.

 

PVP = Player versus Player

Until player input means absolutely nothing in the outcome of a match, CvC is not true.

You think there is some deeper meaning, but there isn't. No one is forcing you to stay here.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Exilim]

Stats and gear progression and all that business needs to stay. Bioware should add a matchmaking system to make it more likely you play with people closer to your own progression. Especially with F2p rolling in there is probably going to be a large fresh batch of level 50 PvPers for Warhero geared players to mutilate. Might be a good idea to limit that exposure a tad.

[Ravashakk]

Yes. I have two options:

 

1. Biioware fix PvP by removing gear affect onPvP

2. Quit this game

 

Perfect example of the average forum poster's ability to read. I said YOU have options. Bioware doing something is not YOUR option.

[Darth_Philar]

PVP = Player versus Player

You think there is some deeper meaning, but there isn't. No one is forcing you to stay here.

 

Exactly. In Player versus Player it is your skill versus their skill. Games like Chess, Halo, etc. are all skill based and are therefore Player versus Player.

 

Here in SWTOR, you have a Character and I have a Character. Our characters have stats, classes, abilities, etc. all of which reduce the amount of skill needed and increase your result's reliance upon the Character. Ergo, CvC (Character versus Character).

 

Any game that attempts to mix PvE with PvP will wind up with some degree of CvC. It is inevitable as PvE and PvP are opposites that cannot exist at the same time in the same game.

 

After reading this post, your knowledge has gained +25 XP

[Larzi]

You guys cant honestly believe that removing PvP gear would help?!??!

 

It would make the gap much much worse. Instead of the free recruit gear once you hit lvl 50 that is normally a big upgrades for fresh 50s.... You would be facing decked out Ops raiders in the crappy green corellia gear.

 

 

think about it!

[Ravashakk]

Exactly. In Player versus Player it is your skill versus their skill. Games like Chess, Halo, etc. are all skill based and are therefore Player versus Player.

 

Here in SWTOR, you have a Character and I have a Character. Our characters have stats, classes, abilities, etc. all of which reduce the amount of skill needed and increase your result's reliance upon the Character. Ergo, CvC (Character versus Character).

 

Any game that attempts to mix PvE with PvP will wind up with some degree of CvC. It is inevitable as PvE and PvP are opposites that cannot exist at the same time in the same game.

 

After reading this post, your knowledge has gained +25 XP

 

Explain why ppl with less gear can out heal, out dmg, out survive etc.... ppl with better gear.

 

Games like swtor and WoW will ALWAYS favor skill > gear or class

Edited August 8, 2012 by Ravashakk

[Ashuranrx]

1. Give everyone one free set of PvP gear at max level (EX: Recruit gear at level 50)

2. Make the free PvP set mod-able, so players can change the shell of the gear for custom looks.

3. Make total expertise even across all sets; for example 2000, and set expertise hard cap at 2000 to make sure dual wield classes do not get more expertise than single weapon classes.

4. Make expertise scale large in PvP. For example, 2000 expertise will adjust pvp bonus damage and damage reduction around 50%. Anyone wearing anything but given PvP set will have no chance in PvP.

5. Allows purchase of additional different sets (tanking sets, dps sets, healing sets) with Warzone commendations.

6. Have only 1 tier of PvP gear: the given free PvP set, and that is it. There would be no additional PvP gear.

7. Remove regular warzones and have all warzones rated. So player skills can be matched through rating.

8. Give players special effects on their characters for achieving WZ high rating, rating must be kept for continuous use of these special effects. For example of special effects: light glow, dark glow, eyes glow, … etc.

9. Additional benefit: PvP set gear would be unusable in PvE at all due to low stats.

 

This system successfully separate PvP and PvE completely, and make PvP fair with only 1 tier of free pvp gear. This also give PvPers incentive to strife for higher ratings for cool special effects on their characters. Special effects can be attached using an ability or additional slots on character.

[Ybini]

After looking at London Olympics games, there fair play dominate, I started to think why we cannot have fair play in SWTOR PvP.

 

SWTOR PvP is currently discrimination based on gear, gear give some players ridiculous handicap whilst others players has serious disadvantage. All players need the same stats in PvP, it should be no unfair advantage even for 1% more dmg or healing.

 

We need gear stats does not affect player vs player performance. No matter what gear you have damage and healing in player vs player combat should be calculated on static coefficients without taking gear stats. Gear stats can affect pve only, but as soon player involves into pvp combat in open world or warzones damage need to be calculated without taking gear into an account.

 

Another major improvement we need is improvement of bolster system. Any player entered warzone at level below 50 should automatically increase its level to 50 with all class abilities available. We need the same queue poll for all levels from level 10 to level 50 where all player of the same class no matter of level has ABSOLUTELY the same HP, damage and healing with no discrimination based on level and gear.

 

Actually BW has a choice move this game forward and make it as a standart for e-sports or loose all its PvP population to Guild Wars 2 and other games where people compete on fair basis.

 

I didn't read all the replies but the issue being what would you suggest your reward for pvping be? Another pet? A ride? What would exactly distinguish you from a "regular" player? Its always better gear, and will always be. Look at yourself then back to me, then look at yourself than back to me. Want to have what I have, play a bunch of warzone and die a lot just like I did. Same thing happens in most people's real life because you have to gain experience(play wzs) to get the pay (gear).

 

ps something to keep in mind is even if you lose every match you'll eventually get warhero gear where the everyone caps out and you'll eventually be playing on the level playing field you so desire. You just have to put in the time. If you solo queue in 17 weeks if you lose every match and swap every unranked com to ranked you'll get full war hero. If you 50% its 9 weeks.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Ybini

[Larzi]

The good news that when you MAX war hero gear fighting against other geared players it really does become more about skill than gear.

 

But alas, PvP is very team based, the people that start these threads dont use their team and try to 1 vs 1 a toon in warhero gear.

 

If you are in your recruit gear, play a support role. That simple.

[Darth_Philar]

Explain why ppl with less gear can out heal, out dmg, out survive etc.... ppl with better gear.

 

Straw Man Fallacy Detected! No explanation necessary.

Learn to Debate.

 

My position clearly states that CvC is a state where Player skill is reduced in the equation and character features are increased in importance to the outcome. You are attempting to restate my position to be "no skill" which is blatantly false.

 

EDIT: Just saw your edit. L. O. L.

That's probably the funniest thing I've ever read on the internet. Now I know I'm being trolled.

Good job sir. You win an internet for your mad troll skillz.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[SweetOldBob]

...Long story short: If you want a different type of progression system you should play a different game since it will not change.

this ^^^

 

The gear grind is fundamental to SWTOR, for PvP and PvE. You may love it, you may hate it, but that's the way the game is.

[Altheran]

Perfect example of the average forum poster's ability to read. I said YOU have options. Bioware doing something is not YOUR option.

 

Posting ideas so that it focuses BioWare's attention, and making them agree with you is defenitively an option.

 

Just sayin', i don't say I agree with OP or not.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Altheran

[Ravashakk]

Straw Man Fallacy Detected! No explanation necessary.

Learn to Debate.

 

My position clearly states that CvC is a state where Player skill is reduced in the equation and character features are increased in importance to the outcome. You are attempting to restate my position to be "no skill" which is blatantly false.

 

EDIT: Just saw your edit. L. O. L.

That's probably the funniest thing I've ever read on the internet. Now I know I'm being trolled.

Good job sir. You win an internet for your mad troll skillz.

 

1. The edit was put in before you first responded. It wasn't until I finished editing that I saw your response.

2. I need to L2Debate? Yet if you skim over your post I see not much more than "lol" "mad troll skillz" "you win the internet" "I know I'm being trolled" All these gems are nothing more than the failed diatribe of a lemming who would rather spend his time copying what he thinks is "cool" to post on forums than actually discuss facts.

 

Even if we go with your stance of skill meaning very little in comparison to gear instead of 0 effect, then I still disagree with you. My first game at 50 on my operative and I out healed the other 2-3 healers in the game who were all decked out in BM gear (one being an operative). On top of that, I out dmged all of them and had less deaths. This was BEFORE recruit gear.

 

When I join a pug, do I care about the other team being decked out in War hero more than them being from a good pvp guild that plays well? Hell no, I'm more worried about the fact they have 3-4 vanguards that play well together than the gear they are wearing.

[Pvtcarnage]

Life is not fair, silly liberal check my Sig.

[Ravashakk]

Posting ideas so that it focuses BioWare's attention, and making them agree with you is defenitively an option.

 

I agree, POSTING ideas is an option for YOU. That, however, was not what was posted. Saying bioware changing something is different than posting ideas so that bioware might change something.

[fungihoujo]

I'm sorry that you don't have fun PVPing. If you had fun PVPing, it wouldn't seem like a grind, but rather an added bonus.

 

I'm also sorry your reading comprehension is below average. The public school system has failed you miserably.

 

Nice, you refuse to actually read what I said, draw your own conclusions from a few words taken out of context- then proceed to throw insults. That is definitely the sign of an intelligent and well educated man.

 

I also like how you changed what I said about the person I was responding to acting like the game was work and the grind being the only choice meaning 'freedom'- to me hating pvp.

 

Can I assume because you're attempting to make fun of my educational upbringing rather than bring something useful to the conversation- such as an actual rebuttal to what I actually said- that you are a pretentious hipster who thinks it is trendy to call people stupid whenever they say something you disagree with?

 

That is what we are doing is it not- taking things out of context and making baseless and insulting observations?

 

It is a grind- the person I was responding to even refers to it was work, a grind, etc... It is a grind you must do to earn being on equal gear standing with others- more importantly, you are facing people who are geared up.

 

As someone said earlier in the thread- you do not put a feather weight against a heavy weight in boxing because there is a large advantage the heavy weight has. Well, in SWTOR- those in the top of the line, sleek gear with million dollar trainers are facing off against those in rusty skates and using chunks of a couch cushion as pads.

 

Nobody at all would care if gear was matched against gear- because it would be competitive in that case.

[fungihoujo]

If you don't like the way this game handles progression....you have options.

 

 

Yes, we know we know- we can go play another game, great option. Oh look- over a million people have taken that option in the last three months, and by the end of the month a big game that gives exactly what people want is coming out- and 6 month subs also run out by then.

 

One of the options we have is trying to influence BW to do something about saving the game, because believe it or not most of us did enjoy the game at one point- probably mostly before 1.2.

 

When that inevitably fails- we have the option of unsubbing- but with subs plummeting is that really what you want to suggest? Considering that means even less WZ pops, longer RWZ queues and fewer teams and thus less variety in pvp

[Darth_Philar]

1. The edit was put in before you first responded. It wasn't until I finished editing that I saw your response.

2. I need to L2Debate? Yet if you skim over your post I see not much more than "lol" "mad troll skillz" "you win the internet" "I know I'm being trolled" All these gems are nothing more than the failed diatribe of a lemming who would rather spend his time copying what he thinks is "cool" to post on forums than actually discuss facts.

 

Even if we go with your stance of skill meaning very little in comparison to gear instead of 0 effect, then I still disagree with you. My first game at 50 on my operative and I out healed the other 2-3 healers in the game who were all decked out in BM gear (one being an operative). On top of that, I out dmged all of them and had less deaths. This was BEFORE recruit gear.

 

When I join a pug, do I care about the other team being decked out in War hero more than them being from a good pvp guild that plays well? Hell no, I'm more worried about the fact they have 3-4 vanguards that play well together than the gear they are wearing.

 

1. Not sure what you point is. My post clearly does not have your edit included. It wasn't until after I finished my post that I saw that you had edited yours.

 

2. You are now ignoring my post entirely and focusing on the edit. Typical debate failure tactic used by those who know they have been beaten. You got called a troll, because you said WoW was skill based. Blizzard openly admits that this is not true, so for you to say otherwise suggests you either don't know what you are talking about, or you are intentionally making false statements in order to start a flame war (a practice known as "trolling").

 

3. Your anecdote about your remembered performance is both inadmissable as evidence (since it is an anecdote) and tainted with confirmation bias.

 

You are the one who is intentionally avoiding any discussion of actual facts. As you clearly don't have any intention of engaging in a valid form of logical debate, I am going to declare a de facto victory for myself and allow you to continue misinforming the general public.

 

Just try to use the correct term for what you enjoy. Calling CvC "PvP" just makes you look uninformed.

[fungihoujo]

Life is not fair, silly liberal check my Sig.

 

I like how you use the quote of a morally bankrupt insane man who is part of the sith, which are known for being considerably worse than Adolf Hitler's Nazis when it comes to slavery, extermination and racial prejudice. Definitely what I'd use to back up my opinions.

[Ravashakk]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2rnczsx.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/2i0dlax.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/5pq0ix.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2lnfo6d.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/w1ahbq.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/34iolcp.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2guw2op.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/5mi8b7.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2dqu5w2.jpg

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http://i46.tinypic.com/11kibyt.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/14mwr7.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/14akftt.jpg

 

I must have had HUGE gear advantages in those games.

[Nolenthar]

Yes, we know we know- we can go play another game, great option. Oh look- over a million people have taken that option in the last three months, and by the end of the month a big game that gives exactly what people want is coming out- and 6 month subs also run out by then.

 

One of the options we have is trying to influence BW to do something about saving the game, because believe it or not most of us did enjoy the game at one point- probably mostly before 1.2.

 

When that inevitably fails- we have the option of unsubbing- but with subs plummeting is that really what you want to suggest? Considering that means even less WZ pops, longer RWZ queues and fewer teams and thus less variety in pvp

 

Typical MMO rant.

 

You like gear-free PvP, which you're entirely entitled to, and you're definitely right (which doesn't mean whoever disagree with you is wrong), but you're thinking your opinion is the right one and that it's because the game doesn't catter that people stopped playing, but you definitely don't know that.

 

Out of 4 friends who stopped SWTOR, 4 of them stopped because they had better things to do in life and that it was summer. None of them left "because they have to grind WH gear".

My example is not more relevant than yours, but don't pretend knowing why million of player have left the game. 75% of the MMO playerbase are game hoppers, they buy a game, play it a month (maybe 2, max 3), then go somewhere else.

 

Or find me a game who didn't follow such trend the last 4 years. Oh, GW2 will probably not loose subscribers, I can agree with you

Edited August 8, 2012 by Nolenthar

[Scritchy]

Not another "can we have PVP with even gear please" thread. Obviously people who make threads like this, don't like the idea of any grind for gear, in any game, and really shouldn't play PVP WZ's OR play raids, if they don't like the idea of gear progression. Perhaps you don't even care for the people who spent thousands of hours of their lives by now, doing such things, and we should be happy to let everything we worked to gain from the game, be waisted and go to nothing.

Why do you equate PVPing and PVEing as even being close to similar? PVE is all about progression. That is the only reason it exists, so you can beat one tier of content and move to the next with the gear you earned from the previous. PVPing is about competition and beating the other player. They are fundamentally different.

 

you CANT have War zones with out gear progression and Experience in your gear, why ??! - because if expertise and PVP gear did not exist, you would have people in raid gear dominating PVP, and now, you will then be asking for raid gear to be disallowed too in PVP WZ because its some thing else some one has that you haven't and you don't want to work for.

Such a myopic view. Why does gear have to matter at all? Why can't the game behind the scenes ignore what you are wearing and provide stats based on a class specific set?

 

People play at different levels and there are always better geared and skilled players than others, removing gear, actually doesn't solve anything, and will only just buff other players anyway who already have 'better' PVE gear than others. So sorry no, it never will be an even or 'fair' playing field.

Equating gear and skill is incorrect. Removing gear stats would just leave skill (and classes).