Sorcs in PvP....

[Echoo]

Sounds like you're under 50 where are sorcs are gods. Try 50 pvp in rookie gear and come back.

 

I agree. OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Seen him post in tons of forums. Seems to be the trend.

[Sharee]

At 50 it goes like this.

 

1, a marauder jumps at you.

2, you knock him back

3, you look at your HP and realize half of it is missing.

 

I wish i was joking.

[MidichIorian]

In the head of a sage/sorc:

 

- I dont even know what happened. Did anyone see it?

 

-Ok, that guy must be cheating.

 

-Am I still in my PvE set?

 

-Hmm, the ability bar suggests that I used my most powerful attack...so where did it go?

 

-Does he have some invis. pocket healer? There's no one on my map.

 

-Oh snap, he saw me.

 

-RUN RUN RUN!!!!!

 

-Yeah, not going that way. *turns around and circles the map*

 

-Aw why......*dead* (was supposed to think: "Aww why did he pass me the ball" but that's as far as you get)

 

-10th time I'm getting a full barrier cycle.

 

-I need to get my social level up so I can buy that operative looking set on quesh

 

-Note to self; avoid bubble. They'll know what class you are.

 

-gosh darn it, I'm not even a healer.

 

-Note to self; slap them with your light stick a couple of times in the beginning of the game. It might fool someone.

 

 

As a sage/sorc it's crucial that you've played every AC in the game because if you happen to waste a stun/CC/any ability basically it could mean the end.

Edited August 7, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Annex]

difference being he never claimed the sorcs were OP, just posting his rebuke about them being UP and worthless as players that cant handle more than 4 buttons often claim.

 

Overall I would say 4/10 for style, 2/10 for form, and 1/10 for fubaring the landing. You didnt even medal my friend, infact I think you just lost to poor little ting ting.

 

Thanks, not my best I'll admit but remember you only need to perform just well enough to win so I'll take 9/10 for making the OP think it was a serious post.

 

Nerf ops!

Edited August 7, 2012 by Annex

[Ntranced]

This thread certainly brings the funny.

 

I also have lots of fun on my level 17 gunnery spec commando, as far as I'm concerned that class is fine and that tree is fine, I don't know why people complain about it so much?

 

Of course sorcs are very strong in sub 50, why do you think the forums were ablaze with "nerf sorc" threads back in January? And more to the point back at launch there were actually some good PVPers in that bracket too. I can't wait for you to hit 50 and get BM gear (at least, throw augments on it too if you can afford it) then come back and tell us what it is like.

 

What annoys me about the OP is that you assume rolling a class to 30 or so is in any way representative of class balance. If a sorc did that on a PT/Sent they would be instantly flamed to death by every FoTM reroller who visits the forums (and no doubt the OP would be chipping in as well, it seems to be what he/she does most).

 

Even worse we get comments in this thread that seem to assume that sorcs don't know how to play their class, sorcs QQ because they haven't played enough or put the effort in and sorcs have no experience of playing with other people and co-ordinating. This is false (personally I've already min/maxed my war hero gear and it is fully augmented and I've been playing sorc in PVP since early access). Most of us have spent months theory-crafting and adapting to patch changes to squeeze every last bit of potential out of the class.

 

Good luck at 50, get to valor 65 or so and then come back and tell us how much fun your sorc is. Until then, this is just another QQ thread.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Ntranced

[islander]

People who keep thinking sorcerers are good because their outputting 600K damage either:

1. Suck at PvP
   
2. Are baddies
   
3. Don't understand focus fire
   
4. Don't understand teamwork
   
5. Don't understand the mechanics of successful PvP
   

 

Any class can put out 600K damage a warzone. An arsenal mercenary could push out those numbers today if they were skilled, and the rest of their team was a bunch of blundering idiots.

 

The reason why you hit 600K figures is because you didn't deal enough damage. Holly crap! You mean I didn't deal enough damage when I dealt 600K damage!!!!!!!

 

 

Yes you didn't deal enough damage to KILL SOMEONE, before they got HEALED.

 

 

And there ladies and gentlemen is why DPS sorcerers, DPS mercenaries are no longer relevant in PvP. This is reflected by rated teams, but surprisingly overlooked by the majority of baddies out queuing in warzones. If you're dealing more than 400K DPS a round it means that people aren't dying fast enough. It means that your targets have had more uptime than they should have had if you were a Powertech or Marauder.

 

 

When people start figuring out how PvP works they'll understand that DPS figures over 400K show that they were ineffective as a DPS. This fact is very evident when you're surrounded with bad team-mates who can't for the life of them figure out how to hit the same target as you.

 

Wait, so now you're suggesting that sorcerers are bad because they cant carry other baddie DPS?

 

Because if I'm a sorc putting out 400k damage in a normal, and the other 'better' DPS classes are putting out half of that - it's not me who's failing at DPS.

 

All DPSers make mistakes when they aren't focusing fire on the crosshaired target, or the person nearby with the least amount of health.

Edited August 7, 2012 by islander

[islander]

Good luck at 50, get to valor 65 or so and then come back and tell us how much fun your sorc is. Until then, this is just another QQ thread.

 

I am level 65 valor, and my sorc is my main (I switched from Mara when we moved to Fatman, due to my perceived lack of heals on the server this side). It's underpowered, but I enjoy the crap out of the diversity of my skills.

 

With my spec I can both heal and damage deal to a reasonable degree. If I focus on it, I can outheal baddie to average 31 point healers.

Yes, I'm not a master at either however if I was put in a good rated 8 man with 6 DPS who were good at their jobs, I could function just fine as a second healer who's job was keeping the main healer (merc or operative) upright and bubbling the 6 DPSers. All the while, throwing spot DPS out there (around 150k). I just don't fit in a good rated team that has two quality healers, that's all. It's OK, because the normal queues come up way faster and the ability to put out DPS similar to most DPSers in normals is handy when I see 2 or 3 other heals in my zone. As a rule, if I see 2 31 point healers in my team, I switch to DPS primary.

 

Sorc is challenging to play, but I find it rewarding. Could it use a bit better defense? Definitely. is it grossly underpowered? Absolutely not.

Edited August 7, 2012 by islander

[Darth_Philar]

Wait, so now you're suggesting that sorcerers are bad because they cant carry other baddie DPS?

 

Because if I'm a sorc putting out 400k damage in a normal, and the other 'better' DPS classes are putting out half of that - it's not me who's failing at DPS.

 

He's saying that dealing low DPS all the time will lead to higher total damage done than dealing bursts of high DPS followed by periods of no DPS. The higher damage done may be irrelevant in the long run though, if your constant DPS was too low to effectively pressure or kill any enemies, whereas that guy with higher DPS bursts but lower overall damage was very relevant as his damage was all used to kill an enemy before that enemy could be healed (giving your team a tactical advantage of having more players on the field).

[islander]

He's saying that dealing low DPS all the time will lead to higher total damage done than dealing bursts of high DPS followed by periods of no DPS. The higher damage done may be irrelevant in the long run though, if your constant DPS was too low to effectively pressure or kill any enemies, whereas that guy with higher DPS bursts but lower overall damage was very relevant as his damage was all used to kill an enemy before that enemy could be healed (giving your team a tactical advantage of having more players on the field).

 

If we're talking about the guy who dots everyone and doesnt finish anyone, then sure.

 

Burst damage comes from multiple players though. It comes from targeting the same guy, using your DPS to kill the right person at all times. That's a challenge for all classes though. What shouldnt be challenging is focusing down the healer. It's sad how many normals I run and the Republic's healer doesn't get focused.

 

Yes, I can't burst DPS down anyone. I could still put out 5-8k damage (depending on armor) over 5 seconds though - it's not bad used properly.

Edited August 7, 2012 by islander

[Jadescythe]

He's saying that dealing low DPS all the time will lead to higher total damage done than dealing bursts of high DPS followed by periods of no DPS. The higher damage done may be irrelevant in the long run though, if your constant DPS was too low to effectively pressure or kill any enemies, whereas that guy with higher DPS bursts but lower overall damage was very relevant as his damage was all used to kill an enemy before that enemy could be healed (giving your team a tactical advantage of having more players on the field).

 

And this is why teams don't want DPS sorcs for rated right here. If the stars align, you might get to burst one person, but otherwise all those DoTs are just for show on the scoreboard.

[islander]

And this is why teams don't want DPS sorcs for rated right here. If the stars align, you might get to burst one person, but otherwise all those DoTs are just for show on the scoreboard.

 

Yeah, I mean I understand this angle too. I do understand the complaints about the class.

It's also why I'm not full DPS. I really didn't see the value after trying it. I was (and am) more useful in my hybrid where I can be more situationally useful.

 

We need a shorter cooldown on reckless - that'd be a start.

[Jadescythe]

Yeah, I mean I understand this angle too. I do understand the complaints about the class.

It's also why I'm not full DPS. I really didn't see the value after trying it. I was (and am) more useful in my hybrid where I can be more situationally useful.

 

We need a shorter cooldown on reckless - that'd be a start.

 

I agree, none of the 31 point specs are viable for high end PVP, which is why I had to change to corruption/lightning hybrid for heals. It's just sad that the best spec for the class is a hybrid (and not a ridiculous damage output hybrid like it was before 1.2). We're pretty much relegated to being brought along simply for huttball pulls and bubbles. As with all of the classes right now (including you, merc/mandos), DPS sorcs can perform well in the hands of great players. But those players would be twice as valuable on a PT, sniper, or mara and it's 1000 times easier on those classes too. I'm still trying to avoid going fotm, but I'm leveling a jugg and already have 3 war hero pieces (just passing them over from my sorc since I'm already geared). I can certainly see myself abandoning my 83 valor sorc once I get to 50 and that is a pretty pathetic statement about class balance.

[islander]

I hear you. Its just shooting lightning from my hands just hasn't gotten old for me, even after 8 months. I opted for the madness hybrid version.

 

Plus deep down I keep hoping another re-balance comes. Even though I have a 50 mara, I just enjoy the utility of the sorc more. He was also my first character back in December, and I guess I have more of a personal connection with him. Ah well. I'll keep on plugging along at least until GW2, then may give that a go for a bit.

[Chikun]

Honestly I think the only issue with sorcs is survivability. Making static barrier damage absorbtion scale with expertise would make a night and day difference.

[Jadescythe]

Honestly I think the only issue with sorcs is survivability. Making static barrier damage absorbtion scale with expertise would make a night and day difference.

 

I'm all for buffing sorcs, but I would avoid giving a damage absorb increase to all teams as static barrier can be put on anyone.

[veyl]

I'm all for buffing sorcs, but I would avoid giving a damage absorb increase to all teams as static barrier can be put on anyone.

 

I had mentioned this in another thread as well. Buffing bubble would both increasingly effect PVE and PVP, making sorcs/sages like Disc Priests during the tail end of burning crusade // most of Wrath. Bubbles were everywhere and extremely strong//efficient. ((Too efficient in PVP)).

 

Sorcs need some form of a Pain Suppression defensive CD and a form of burst that is actually a threat. (Dots need to scale better with expertise because right now, they're a joke. Nothing but meter padding. )

[Chikun]

I'm all for buffing sorcs, but I would avoid giving a damage absorb increase to all teams as static barrier can be put on anyone.

 

True, but it's been my impression that sorcs in rated teams are very undesireable and are underwhelming when compared to operative healers.

 

I had mentioned this in another thread as well. Buffing bubble would both increasingly effect PVE and PVP, making sorcs/sages like Disc Priests during the tail end of burning crusade // most of Wrath. Bubbles were everywhere and extremely strong//efficient. ((Too efficient in PVP)).

 

Sorcs need some form of a Pain Suppression defensive CD and a form of burst that is actually a threat. (Dots need to scale better with expertise because right now, they're a joke. Nothing but meter padding. )

 

My suggestion only pertains to basing it off of expertise so it wouldn't/shouldn't affect PvE unless people would gear swap before fights.

 

Otherwise I would agree, a better form of burst and a pain suppression type of a defensive CD would also be sufficient. The more different types of suggestions though the better.

[Kegparty]

I have a valor 83 sorc I have shelved. Bioware nurfed this class into a starter class with the hopes of the player rolling an alt. I feel my 500k wz damage is a fluff for sure. With the wraith proc chain lightning I felt like I could turn the tide of the game if people ignored me.

 

Works as intended.. nothing to see here.. move along

 

A defensive cool down would not help in this scenario because even with a good defense your numbers are just fluff and will always be fluff compared to a pyro mara or even sniper.

 

Both these videos are done right after the wraith chain lightning nurf right when warhero gear dropped. I was testing new specs.

Here is an example 476k hybrid:

Madness:

 

God I loved playing my sorc so I hope they bring them back.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Kegparty

[Kegparty]

Ok so here is what I would do.. Make death field a shorter cool down. Its already a small number of a players it effects compared to other similar abilites but has a long cooldown.

[Chemic_al]

Personally, I'd like to see a madness tree talent that reflects damage back whilst it's up ( I think getting rid of the talent that adds bonus healing to parasitsm high up in the tree is what it should replace with 1 talent for 50% reflection, 2 for 100%). It would be the perfect partner to the sustained damage dot spec, at least if you're focused down, they going to know about it, and might think twice if you're both low on health, pop a bubble and the attacker risks suiciding himself using an execute move.

And by reflects, I mean for the full amount. So if hit by a 7k sweep, it doesn't just reflect the 3k or so back the bubble absorbs, but the full 7k.

 

Lightning tree, Thundering Blast needs a damage buff, and it needs to be instant. This would give the tree proper burst after a Chain Lightning Proc.

 

And secondly, I think sorcs need the same shroud as their sin cousins, at the very least.

 

And thirdly, a proper ranged execute move.

 

These things would bring us more in line with snipers, maras and powertechs.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Chemic_al

[Pvtcarnage]

The main point is this is not a single player game, find a friend like the OP does and problem solved. Sorcs working together are a nightmare in 50's as well and I'm one of those op sentinels

[UGLYMRJ]

The main point is this is not a single player game, find a friend like the OP does and problem solved. Sorcs working together are a nightmare in 50's as well and I'm one of those op sentinels

 

This guy gets it....

 

I'm a marauder... and what made me and a guildie (who's main is a tanksin) roll 2 sorcs and play together? Walls and walls of annoying pebbles. It is probably the most frustrating experience in PvP for me. Getting hit by 2 sages and the walls of rocks is brutal.

 

There are a few groups of these sages on Bastion but I've never seen 2 sorcs use the same tactic. We honestly did it cuz we knew it would be fun and just for a change of pace. Neither of us realized how beastly it would be until our first WZ. It normally takes 4 people to kill the 2 of us, even if anyone can get passed the timed defensives... we focus fire and melt them before they do any real damage. Heal up and move on to the next target. The only time we have problems is when a group of 4 or more is focusing and doing it well, but that's a problem for any class and group. When we had a jug and sniper working with us we were near unstoppable.

 

But yes.... bottom line. Team work. Solo I do well... but not nearly as well as when I'm teamed with friends who I can easily communicate and coordinate with.

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Jadescythe]

Is normally takes 4 people to kill the 2 of us, even if anyone can get passed the timed defensives...

 

I'm extremely interested to know what you mean by this.

[UGLYMRJ]

I'm extremely interested to know what you mean by this.

 

I mean the 2 of us are timing our defensive abilities so they are not going to waste. A simple example would be that we are calling out our KB so we're not both using it at the same time and wasting a CD that had no effect.

 

And that should read "it"... not "is"

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Jadescythe]

I mean the 2 of us are timing our defensive abilities so they are not going to waste. A simple example would be that we are calling out our KB so we're not both using it at the same time and wasting a CD that had no effect.

 

And that should read "it"... not "is"

 

Typos aside, I was only interested in what you considered a defensive ability, which you clarified. I would understand it as coordinating CC as we only have bubble for defense and it doesn't really require timing. I agree that multiple sorcs can use stun, whirlwind, and KB (with root eventually) to form a good synergy and perform better than when they're alone. I would guess, however, since you are in PUG lowbie PVP that you are not seeing the same coordination from the other side and it is elevating your perception of how the class performs in groups. Honestly, if there is a 4v2 and they didn't kill one of you within 8 seconds then they weren't focusing, they were level 10-11ish and had no abilities, and/or they have absolutely no skill whatsoever. I know you understand this is lowbie, you've said multiple times that it's still early, but I'll be interested to read what you have to say when you do eventually hit 50.