Gunslingler DPS help needed.

[Flying-Brian]

I am trying to help out a gunslinger in our guild that seems to be under preforming DPS wise in raids.

 

He is currently in a mix of rakata/black hole gear. But this past weekend he was the weak link DPS wise in trying to get past the tanks in HM EC (we switched him out for another DPS and had no issues clearing them).

 

Looking over his parse logs on the op training dummy, he can pull 1200-1300+ DPS over a 5 minute fight.

OP wise, he is pulling between 600-900 dps on the bosses in SM EC (he forgot to turn on his log during the HM run).

 

He is currently the only lvl 50 gunslinger in our guild, so there is no one else very familiar with the spec to help him out.

 

A few of the things I have noticed. He is spec'd in the SS tree, but might be set up more for PVP then PVE. His secondary stats are not optimized right now, since he is between tiers in gear (and has not be able to get extra enhancements to balance them out yet). When working on the OP training dummy, he said he was having issues with energy management, because he was trying more of a rotation that was suggested for PVE use by guides, as opposed to the one he had been using.

 

So I'm looking for any help to try to get him back on track and get his DPS back up to where it should be.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Flying-Brian

[TyraelJedi]

Have him PM me here with his spec and rotation if he can. SS is very viable for PvE and energy management became very tricky after 1.3. He prob just needs a few twikes here and there and should be fine.

[AngelFluttershy]

If he's having energy management it never hurts to throw in a Flurry of Bolts when needed. His DPS difference from dummy to Ops is very significant and can't be just due to his build or gear alone. This sounds more along the lines of a weak rotation coupled with a few misplaced points in his spec and possible itemization issue (i.e. too much Crit on his gear). It would be very helpful if he were to post in this thread or PM any of the willing posters, like myself or TyraelJedi, his rotation, build, and possibly his stats (Crit Rating, Surge Rating, etc... not the percentages) we could be a bit more detailed in our help.

 

If he's patient enough he can always create a Ask Mr. Robot sheet and give us every last detail, but that's not really necessary.

[Junostorm]

More information would help, as others have stated, to determine if it is a gear or rotation/priority issue.

 

Though it does sound like they are trying too hard, causing them to make mistakes.

[Talyndor]

Have him PM me here with his spec and rotation if he can. SS is very viable for PvE and energy management became very tricky after 1.3. He prob just needs a few twikes here and there and should be fine.

 

My I contact you on Harbinger? I have been having trouble maximizing my dps, as well, tho i am at full campaign or black hole gear, and my crit is at 40% and my crit multiplier sits at (I think) about 73-74%).I am not online now, so the multiplier may be a bit off...ill have to check. I run DF now (used to run SS) b/c a number of posts and threads suggested I would get higher dps from DF.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Talyndor

[TyraelJedi]

Feel free to contact me on Harbinger anytime dude . DF in my opinion is more of a PvP spec, but that is just me. I use it currently for PvP, but before I was SS for a very long time.

 

I jump back and forth between my GS "Daringer" and my Trooper "Hiroim" through out the day. If I don't hear from you today I will post some info here later on this evening.

 

Keep your head up, we will get you fixed

[TyraelJedi]

Here is my suggested PvE SS spec:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700rcrbbRsRGoZbfZh.2

 

Lemme know if you have questions

[Talyndor]

Here is the helpful SS rotation Daringer suggested to me:

(tell me if I get this wrong, Daringer, and I'll edit it).

Flourish--cover--charged burst--sabotage--trick shot--speed shot--aim

Toss in Orbital strike when possible, as well as rapid fire.

Use cool head and lurry of bolts as needed to manage energy.

[ImmortalAlien]

Sniper checking in! Well, it's not Gunslinger but the stats and ability mirror GS's.

 

My suggestion would be to try other specs. If you're pretty comfortable with Sharpshooter anyway, that's fine, but I actually find myself doing the most DPS on the Engineering (Saboteur) tree than the other trees. Dirty Fighting is also a pretty simple and easy PVE tree.

 

For operation fights, due to the down time in DPSing certain bosses, I suggest comparing your DPS to what the other DPS do in the fights. Parsers that can provide a real time overlay of DPS for the entire group help. If your DPS is under the par of the rest of the group during the boss fight and you guys hit the Enrage Timer, then improvement is needed. If you guys beat the Enrage Timers, then improvement is just icing on the cake.

 

For Firebrand/Stormcaller in Denova HM, as a Sniper, I usually do my standard rotation on the boss as if it was a tank and spank. The only thing different is that Shiv (Blaster Whip) is added to the rotation since I'm one of the people standing on the tank.

 

For the basics of Enginering (Saboteur) if your buddy does try it:

- Series of Shots (Speed Shot) is on CD

- Explosive Probe (Sabotage Charge) is on CD when below 70% Energy

- Interrogation Probe (Shock Charge) is on CD

- Plasma Probe (Shrap Bomb) is on CD

- Orbital Strike (XS Freighter Flyby) is on CD

- Laze Target (Smuggler's Luck) is on CD, Snipe (Charged Blast) is used when the buff is up

- Ambush (Aimed Shot) is on CD, yet has a lower priority than the rest of the abilities

- Shatter Shot (Flourish Shot) keeps its debuff up at all times

- Fragmentation Grenade (Thermal Grenade) only used when multiple enemies are near each other

 

And more stuff, yet will explain a bit more if the guy is really interested.

 

My spec for Denova HM Smugglerfied: 7/31/3

 

Note: Some stats I picked are good only in PVP, so feel free to switch thing around if your buddy is PVE only.

 

Wish you guys good luck on Denova HM!

[Flying-Brian]

Thanks for the offers of help with this. He should be putting together and AMR profile today and I will post that up as soon as he finishes it.

[Talyndor]

I ran HM Denova successfully a number of times, did not die (I was usually one of the last standing), but my old guild still did not like my dps parses b/c they felt i should be topping out everyone. That's why I am seeking ways to improve it.

Sometimes I cannot help but wonder whether people actually read these forums and realize that some dps classes have been getting nerfed and their overall output is less than what people expect of them. I am thinking of my sage, to be specific, but also many people have complained about GS nerfs.....idk.....just thinking out loud I guess.

Best of luck out there, everyone!

[TyraelJedi]

How is the new rotation and spec working out?

[FalcoLombardi]

Probably not the best place to put this but I didn't think starting a new thread for a small question I have would be worth it. However, I was wondering as a Sabotuer Gunslinger, is Vital Shot worth using? Just thought it might since this spec has several other DoTs

[AngelFluttershy]

Probably not the best place to put this but I didn't think starting a new thread for a small question I have would be worth it. However, I was wondering as a Sabotuer Gunslinger, is Vital Shot worth using? Just thought it might since this spec has several other DoTs

 

Yes. I use Vital Shot in any Gunslinger spec, even more so in Saboteur because I have some extra points in that spec which I throw into DF for the Vital Shot improvements. Even in Sharpshooter Vital Shot still provides a good portion of my damage because keeping it up for the entire fight definitely adds up.

 

 

Here is my suggested PvE SS spec:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700rcrbbRsRGoZbfZh.2

 

Lemme know if you have questions

 

Independent Anarchy and not Holed Up? You're breaking my heart! I know Holed Up doesn't do anything for damage but I just can't help resisting speccing into it so I can sit in the middle of AOE's and not have to move because I am that lazy.

[Flying-Brian]

Ok, here's the AmR profile for my guildmates gunslinger.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0919d2a8-e8bf-49f0-b92e-fddb09182546

[TyraelJedi]

Independent Anarchy and not Holed Up? You're breaking my heart! I know Holed Up doesn't do anything for damage but I just can't help resisting speccing into it so I can sit in the middle of AOE's and not have to move because I am that lazy.

 

Not intending any heart breakage. For some fights Holed up is a plus, but I'd rather just come out of cover for a few seconds. As for independant anarchy, it is a mean and high damaging abilty; especially if you use trickshot to activated it.

 

And considering that OP has a DPS concern, I'm pretty he would rather put 2 points into a damaging ability, rather than a lazy ability

Edited August 6, 2012 by TyraelJedi

[Lightning_]

Ok, here's the AmR profile for my guildmates gunslinger.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0919d2a8-e8bf-49f0-b92e-fddb09182546

In the spec I'd take Independent Anarchy over Black Market Mods for a straight DPS increase on Sabotage Charge and XS Flyby.

 

For the gear 90 crit seems to be too low. Sharpshooter spec is not that crit-dependent, but still having it closer to 300 would be more useful, especially since Surge is already there.

 

Other than that, quite a standard setup.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Lightning_

[LenrocNewDawn]

After having some problems with maintaining my energy level in prolonged fights I had to look into my rotation and found that vital shot was the culprit in my case as a SS GS. I still throw it when I'm on the move and have full energy but when i go into cover I'm not using it. My rotation is pretty simple, while I move in position I throw vital / flurry / flourish in that order then enter cover and is sabotage / charged with smugglers luck / illegal mods / (power adrenal?) trick-shot / aimed / speed shots / trick-shot / rapid fire / speed shots. Then is back to charged / trick-shot / aimed / speed shot / trick-shot and waiting for the sabotage and rapid fire to get of CDs. Sometimes I might decide to postpone an aimed after the speed shot in order to proc quick aim. If I everything in that rotation is on CD (bar charged of course) I'll give it a good blaster whip or a grenade if my energy level is above 80-90%. If energy gets below 70% I throw in a flurry or if I need to burst I use everything (flyby+blaster whip+grenade) until I get around 40% energy and then use cool head.

I won't post numbers cause they are deceiving and gear dependent but this rotation works for me in killing Kephess on HM or The Nightmare Pilgrim.

 

Edit: Also you have to gauge his performance by comparing it with other DPS in your team, as somebody above suggested.

 

P.S. If your friend does 12 hundred DPS on the OPs training dummy and in the actual fight under 8 hundred, he has a bad case of combat jitters. It happens to me sometimes when the team lacks focus or when people are screaming worthless things over voice or I'm very tired.

Edited August 6, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[dcgregorya]

I am trying to help out a gunslinger in our guild that seems to be under preforming DPS wise in raids.

 

He is currently in a mix of rakata/black hole gear. But this past weekend he was the weak link DPS wise in trying to get past the tanks in HM EC (we switched him out for another DPS and had no issues clearing them).

 

Looking over his parse logs on the op training dummy, he can pull 1200-1300+ DPS over a 5 minute fight.

OP wise, he is pulling between 600-900 dps on the bosses in SM EC (he forgot to turn on his log during the HM run).

 

He is currently the only lvl 50 gunslinger in our guild, so there is no one else very familiar with the spec to help him out.

 

A few of the things I have noticed. He is spec'd in the SS tree, but might be set up more for PVP then PVE. His secondary stats are not optimized right now, since he is between tiers in gear (and has not be able to get extra enhancements to balance them out yet). When working on the OP training dummy, he said he was having issues with energy management, because he was trying more of a rotation that was suggested for PVE use by guides, as opposed to the one he had been using.

 

So I'm looking for any help to try to get him back on track and get his DPS back up to where it should be.

 

Sharpshooter underperforms on Toth and Zorn in EC because of the red dot phase. What you want is to spec dirty fighting for EC.

Edited August 6, 2012 by dcgregorya

[AngelFluttershy]

Not intending any heart breakage. For some fights Holed up is a plus, but I'd rather just come out of cover for a few seconds. As for independant anarchy, it is a mean and high damaging abilty; especially if you use trickshot to activated it.

 

And considering that OP has a DPS concern, I'm pretty he would rather put 2 points into a damaging ability, rather than a lazy ability

 

Hehe well put. It is nice to have Freighter Flyby ticking for a huge amount of damage, especially during Kephess with all those Trandoshans. All the pretty numbers!

 

Sharpshooter underperforms on Toth and Zorn in EC because of the red dot phase. What you want is to spec dirty fighting for EC.

 

It's stated that he is under-preforming for all the bosses so respecing for one boss won't help the overall situation. Also, any of the DPS specs are very viable for every fight despite some specs being better in certain encounters.

 

After having some problems with maintaining my energy level in prolonged fights I had to look into my rotation and found that vital shot was the culprit in my case as a SS GS. I still throw it when I'm on the move and have full energy but when i go into cover I'm not using it. My rotation is pretty simple, while I move in position I throw vital / flurry / flourish in that order then enter cover and is sabotage / charged with smugglers luck / illegal mods / (power adrenal?) trick-shot / aimed / speed shots / trick-shot / rapid fire / speed shots. Then is back to charged / trick-shot / aimed / speed shot / trick-shot and waiting for the sabotage and rapid fire to get of CDs. Sometimes I might decide to postpone an aimed after the speed shot in order to proc quick aim. If I everything in that rotation is on CD (bar charged of course) I'll give it a good blaster whip or a grenade if my energy level is above 80-90%. If energy gets below 70% I throw in a flurry or if I need to burst I use everything (flyby+blaster whip+grenade) until I get around 40% energy and then use cool head.

I won't post numbers cause they are deceiving and gear dependent but this rotation works for me in killing Kephess on HM or The Nightmare Pilgrim.

 

I have the pretty bread and butter rotation in SS and I never meet with any energy issues. As long as you keep the AOEs to a minimal and stay in cover as much as you can you shouldn't have any problems even with Vital Shot in rotation. I only use any kind of AOE (Thermal Grenade, Freighter Flyby, Sweeping Gunfire) when the situation calls for it.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Thing is that Vital Shot does nothing for the SS specced GS. Just eats 20 energy same as a charged burst. If you look closely you'll see that charged burst that procs a trick-shot (bread and butter for the SS spec) and has a chance to proc quick aim, costs the same but takes the energy at the end of the cast giving 1.5 more seconds on high rate energy regeneration. I had problems with keeping my energy up with the constant use of the vital shot over prolonged fights, if you don't I can only speculate that your rotation is a bit loose or I might be wrong . One other problem I had was not using every trick-shot available but now I sometimes even break my last second of Speed shot just to squeeze in another trick-shot before the proc expires.

Following this argument I'll try to squeeze in a vital shot when everything is on CD and I'm OK with the energy. It might be better then the thermal grenade for single target although I have 2 points spent in Independent anarchy.

 

Good luck to you and ask your DPS teammates to post their parser. Sometimes the entire team under-performs and blame it on a single person .

[AngelFluttershy]

Thing is that Vital Shot does nothing for the SS specced GS. Just eats 20 energy same as a charged burst. If you look closely you'll see that charged burst that procs a trick-shot (bread and butter for the SS spec) and has a chance to proc quick aim, costs the same but takes the energy at the end of the cast giving 1.5 more seconds on high rate energy regeneration. I had problems with keeping my energy up with the constant use of the vital shot over prolonged fights, if you don't I can only speculate that your rotation is a bit loose or I might be wrong . One other problem I had was not using every trick-shot available but now I sometimes even break my last second of Speed shot just to squeeze in another trick-shot before the proc expires.

Following this argument I'll try to squeeze in a vital shot when everything is on CD and I'm OK with the energy. It might be better then the thermal grenade for single target although I have 2 points spent in Independent anarchy.

 

I try to keep my rotation as tight as possible and prioritize well enough. Vital Shot isn't on the target 24/7 as sometimes I do have to get in my Trickshot, but I always have enough downtime in-between cooldowns to throw it on now and again. I follow the typical rules, keep Trickshot on CD, Aimed Shot when you have the proc, Charged Burst to maintain the proc, and Speed Shot when you can. I just have enough energy and time in-between to use Vital Shot and Sabotage Charge for some extra damage without hampering energy. Granted, I do have to throw in a Flurry of Bolts now and again to help out energy just a bit. I know previously you said you like to use Vital and Flourish while you're moving into position, but in a PvE circumstance that typically is a non-issue with most encounters. Use and abuse the Foxhole buff, one extra energy goes a long way in a class where energy regeneration speed differs between percentages. Sure, between casting Flourish and Vital it may be only a tick or two for regenerating, but that's two extra points if you were in cover. Also, I never worry about energy when I'm opening because even if I dip below the sweet spot I just hit Illegal Mods and gain 10 points of energy and then go into a Speed Shot frenzy where I'll soon hit Burst Volley. That should set your energy back in good standing where you can then focus on maintaining it a bit more. Plus Cool Head is a great "oh crap" button.

[phoenixds]

Vital Shot use can be tricky. For a Sharpshooter, it's a rotation filler to use when you're at or near max energy and everything else is on CD, or when you're having to be on the move dodging stuff. One thing to remember about it though, is that since it's dealing internal damage, it doesn't face the same sort of damage mitigation normal attacks do. Even if you're only throwing a few Vital Shots up there, you can still do a ton of damage over a long fight with it. It's all about timing--don't hit it except when the one you've got on it is about to or has run out, and don't hit it when you're going to be doing a big chain of abilities before your energy has a tick or two to replenish itself.

 

To address the main point of this thread... if your GS is doing far less damage in operations than against the dummy, he's probably letting his rotation go to shambles. I find that often times (especially factoring in all the running around) I actually do more damage against bosses than the dummy, because in real battles you get to use Quickdraw, which is a great ability, especially if you have the energy reduction from armor sets. You've got to get yourself into a place where your rotation is pretty much automatic. Also, looking at his gear... with Surge like that, you should be rocking a higher crit chance. What's the point of having huge criticals if you're not popping them off one after another? Also, he can stand to lose a little accuracy. In PVE, 100% is all you need.

[Flying-Brian]

For what it is coming down to, it is looking more and more like it is a rotation issue for my guildmate.

 

In talking with him, Vital Shot is one of the attacks that has been giving him alot of problems trying to fit it in a rotation. The other issue, is that from lvl10-50 he was mainly playing pvp, and his rotation was set around doing quick burst damage, and less about a longer 5+ min boss fight. He is just burning through his energy too quickly.

 

For his gear, his crit is low, but once he gets his next BH implant (next day or so), and then swaps an enhancement around, it will balance that out. As I said he is between gear levels, so secondary stats are not optimized yet.

 

Since the issue really doesn't seem to be gearing or build related (since the few things there are an easy fix).

What should he be doing with his rotation?

[Synavix]

If energy use is an issue at all, I would definitely recommend a pure SS spec. It can be a harder spec to perfect, but in my opinion its the easiest spec to be "good" at. As far as rotation goes, make sure he reads http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-953.html#II.3, specifically the linked to rotation section. Know which abilities are higher priority, and get in the rhythm of following the "snippets" of rotation that they list under the synnergetic part. If he is having problems fitting in Vital Shot, tell him to drop it completely at first and then try to work it in later. Using it at the right time *is* a DPS boost, but its hard to do so without messing up your *more* important rotations until you're more comfortable.

 

Also, the best way to improve your DPS is by comparing a parse to a parse of someone who did more DPS with the same spec on the same or similar fight. There will always be variables that you can't account for, but by looking at which moves are doing how much damage, you can see what you parts you need to improve. For example, look at where each ability is ranked in comparison to the rest, as well as how many times per fight they were used.

 

It's also important to use Burst Volley almost on cooldown. The timing of it works perfectly with XS Freighter, so make to work them together and you won't have the energy issues you otherwise could with using XS. It's also a great time to be popping relics or adrenals and other cooldowns if he has them.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Synavix