Why is RP-PvE more popular than RP-PvP?

[Ayami_no_baka]

Rolling RP PvE instead of RP PvP has NOTHING to do with skills in PvP XD For my PvP I have toons on a PvP server...for my RP I would NEVER go on a RP PvP server. I want to RP there. Not do competitive PvP XD

 

So yeah...RP PvP for me is nonsense. I want to enjoy myself there RPing and I don't want to get interrupted by ******* running around ganking people RP PvE Server doesn't mean we don't fight btw. It simply means RP comes first and if we decide we want to fight we do it. There's just no mindless, useless, retarded ganking and griefing happening

 

So yeah...I am very happy with my choice to go RP PvE for my RP part of the game and pick a real PvP server for the PvP part

[yutrio]

Rolling RP PvE instead of RP PvP has NOTHING to do with skills in PvP XD For my PvP I have toons on a PvP server...for my RP I would NEVER go on a RP PvP server. I want to RP there. Not do competitive PvP XD

 

So yeah...RP PvP for me is nonsense. I want to enjoy myself there RPing and I don't want to get interrupted by ******* running around ganking people RP PvE Server doesn't mean we don't fight btw. It simply means RP comes first and if we decide we want to fight we do it. There's just no mindless, useless, retarded ganking and griefing happening

 

So yeah...I am very happy with my choice to go RP PvE for my RP part of the game and pick a real PvP server for the PvP part

 

I guess what I'm trying to understand is whether or not people don't like RP-PvP because of the potential for ganking and griefing, because I honestly don't see a lot of "mindless, useless, retarded ganking and griefing happening" on these server types.

 

Most people that will RP out in the world in a RP-PvP environment tend to do so in groups—guild groups or maybe a large group of friends. Meanwhile, gankers usually either run around solo, or in small groups. The numbers game usually dictates the group with the larger numbers wins out.

 

Maybe that other game has soured the experience for a lot of people because of its more open-world nature compared to SWTOR. But I think this is a completely different environment, and thus should be given a fair chance at being judged on its own merit before people come to some sort of conclusion about it.

[Medieval_Jedi]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS AN OPINION. VIEWERS DISCRETION ADVISED!

 

A lot of RPers are just scared of PvP - this is just my opinion. Even when I played Age of Conan - the people who played on the RPPVP servers would openly claim they don't want to PvP and travel in packs of people, either it be friends/guilds/paid just to avoid it. But, that itself encouraged RP - hired guards, mercenaries, backstabbings - a lot of fun.

 

Honestly, I just think a lot of RPers just use 'gankers' as an excuse of not wanting to learn how to PvP and hide behind it religiously. I'm in the same boat as you - I think PvP should be included in roleplay and it actually encourages MORE RP. How can a Sith Lord be a brutal tyrant without displaying his power and installing fear via killing. Do you think Darth Bane would of just let jedi walk right past him without a glance? Things like that - PvE doesn't cut it. People who've PvP'd on any game had at least a moment of: "Ah, crap, not this guy..." when a dude came into a battle.

 

As said, look at what people did in Age of Conan - they hired mercenaries, got body guards. Gankers are something that are easily handled with a good community but no one wants to take up arms - most just wait for hand-outs.

 

Look at what 80% (guesstimate) of RP has become - tavern RP. This has became a norm for most RPers and, knowing people - we don't like breaking norms. And throwing in PvP breaks norms because it would restrict it to just home worlds/towns. I'll throw in World of Warcraft, for example - I really love Nagrand, its a beautiful zone but if I was a roleplayer who followed the norm I would be in Stormwind because Nagrand was open for PvP if PvP was enforced on all RP servers.

 

Thats just my thoughts on it.

 

TL;DR: A lot of RPers are intimidated by PvP and roll on PvE for that reason.

 

Here is the reality. People don't want to be disturbed and derailed from whatever they are doing.

 

There is no intimidation factor or fear, it is a bloody video game that has absolutely no substantive penalty for losing, other than time invested reaching a certain "spatial" objective.

 

People who don't want to be interrupted in whatever they're electing to do at a given time go to PvE servers, individuals who want to experience a stilted form of spontaneity go to PvP servers.

 

Any other observed pattern is almost certainly a form of confirmation bias on the part of the observer, this is not a particularly deep issue.

[Medieval_Jedi]

I've been a keen RP'er for 26 years and have been RP'ing with MMO's for around 10. Every instinct and experience I have suggests that PvP provides a superior RP environment. There is no better RP in an MMO that when enemies that are a genuine threat to one another get to exchange words and blows... it's immersive, it's tense, it's meaningful with real consequences, and sometimes it's very funny. The common whinge of griefing is actually a very rare occurance on the RP PvP servers I've played on over various games.

When I first encountered emote and roll fighting being used by MMO 'RP'ers' I was shocked, and to be honest I still find it quite ridiculous. Powerful characters should arise from their in-game experience and that includes the gear which (to me) is just another MMO mechanic for said experience. The PvP environment when populated by a significant proportion of dedicated RP'ers on both sides is always gonna be the way I want to play ... PvE RP is a poor second and a last resort.

 

If I am going to attack you in a role-play sense, I am not going to say a word. I am going to come up on you, hopefully from surprise while you're engaged fighting something else, weak and near death and I am going to annihilate you and hopefully any companions.

 

Why? Because in anything resembling a real world, any sentient being wants to avoid dying. If I want to not die, the best way to do that, especially given the physics of the game universes being played in is to kill you swiftly from surprise to increase the likelihood of my own survival.

 

If one is role-playing, there will be no words, there will be no intense exchange of pointless banter, I will get the drop on you, kill you and continue on my mission.

 

Long dialogues are for stories where a plot can be developed, and completely destroy spontaneity and any opportunity for a character to interact with their environment in a "real" way.

 

How often do you think soldiers stop to have a tete a tete with their counterparts? How often did Han, Leia and Luke stop to converse with the numerous Stormtroopers, thugs and other opponents they faced?

[Medieval_Jedi]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is whether or not people don't like RP-PvP because of the potential for ganking and griefing, because I honestly don't see a lot of "mindless, useless, retarded ganking and griefing happening" on these server types.

 

Most people that will RP out in the world in a RP-PvP environment tend to do so in groups—guild groups or maybe a large group of friends. Meanwhile, gankers usually either run around solo, or in small groups. The numbers game usually dictates the group with the larger numbers wins out.

 

Maybe that other game has soured the experience for a lot of people because of its more open-world nature compared to SWTOR. But I think this is a completely different environment, and thus should be given a fair chance at being judged on its own merit before people come to some sort of conclusion about it.

 

Trust me, it's there. The ganking, the general stupidity, the "LOLZ RP PVPerz 4 teh loze!"

 

It's there. Already deleted and re-rolled my RP PvP server characters so I didn't have to deal with infants in that environment.

[GenhisAkahn]

Here is the reality. People don't want to be disturbed and derailed from whatever they are doing.

 

There is no intimidation factor or fear, it is a bloody video game that has absolutely no substantive penalty for losing, other than time invested reaching a certain "spatial" objective.

 

People who don't want to be interrupted in whatever they're electing to do at a given time go to PvE servers, individuals who want to experience a stilted form of spontaneity go to PvP servers.

 

Any other observed pattern is almost certainly a form of confirmation bias on the part of the observer, this is not a particularly deep issue.

 

I don't see why some people are honestly getting offended or finding any of this appalling.. what this guy just said is the blatant truth whether people like it or not.. this is an MMO some have RPed for 10 to 20+ years some are only just beginning and no matter how it is you see it.

 

The main reason people choose RP-PvE is so that they're not ganked.. or should I say "Interrupted"... That's the reason, the major one at least. I've seen no change in the quality of RP in both RP-PvP or RP-PvE to me so I don't understand why it would create such a dispute.

 

If you like RP-PvP, have fun. If you prefer RP-PvE, go nuts.

[yutrio]

Trust me, it's there. The ganking, the general stupidity, the "LOLZ RP PVPerz 4 teh loze!"

 

It's there. Already deleted and re-rolled my RP PvP server characters so I didn't have to deal with infants in that environment.

It's not just there. It's everywhere no matter where you go. Sadly, it's the nature of the MMO beast. Maybe not the ganking part, but the rest of that will be on every server, PvP or PvE.

 

I'd like to be proven wrong one day though. But I doubt that'll happen.

 

I don't see why some people are honestly getting offended or finding any of this appalling.. what this guy just said is the blatant truth whether people like it or not.. this is an MMO some have RPed for 10 to 20+ years some are only just beginning and no matter how it is you see it.

 

The main reason people choose RP-PvE is so that they're not ganked.. or should I say "Interrupted"... That's the reason, the major one at least. I've seen no change in the quality of RP in both RP-PvP or RP-PvE to me so I don't understand why it would create such a dispute.

 

If you like RP-PvP, have fun. If you prefer RP-PvE, go nuts.

 

Eh, I'm not the type to be offended by opinions on the Internet. But I do feel that there are a lot of negative, preconceived notions about what goes on in RP-PvP server and its community just because it has a PvP tag next to it. But, as the post before said, people will see what they want to see.

 

To be perfectly honest, this is the type of topic that can go on forever without either side coming to an understanding. Think I'll jump on out of this one while I still can.

Edited December 27, 2011 by yutrio

[Jedi_Osiris]

Personally, I like the idea of combining RP and PVP, but in my experience, it has not been fun. Let me put it this way-

 

I have never seen a post like this:

 

My Level 30 Sith Lord was dueling with a Level 32 Jedi when a Level 10 Jedi roleplaying a Level 50 Grand Master came out of nowhere and started emote dueling me. Since he was roleplaying a more powerful character I had to let him kill me. Then, when I res, there are three Level 5 Jedi also roleplaying Level 50 Grand Masters waiting for me. I had no choice but to lose the emote duel and let them kill me again.

 

 

 

I know this doesn't happen all of the time, but when it has happened to me, it has never been a "one off." It always seems to happen in long bursts and it just ruins my enjoyment of the game.

[Keta]

personally I no longer will role or play on a RP-PvP server. There are a lot of people that get their jollies by ganking low level players whenever they can. I find that neither fun nor tolerable in my gaming. Now, if the server had real rvr lakes ala DAOC I might change my mind. In such a server you'd be safe (enough) to go about leveling without a lot of fear around whether you need to group up with a bunch of other people at all times. You could also wander into the lakes if you so desired (that'd likely be entire planets or huge zones here). Just my 2 bits worth.

[patheman]

Can someone help me understand this. In my opinion Roleplaying is all about immersing yourself in the game world, feeling like you're part of it and that there's nothing unnatural stopping you from being who you want to be. So naturally I feel a PvP server, where the freedom of attacking whoever you want (on the opposite side) is present, is the best suited type of server for RP.

 

Wouldn't the PvE mechanics break immersion? You're standing next to a player of your opposing faction with your lightsaber/blaster ready but simply can't touch the person because of some other-wordly intervention called "pvp-flag". To me that breaks the spell of being in a world of war, conflict and constant danger.

 

On the other hand, I can understand the annoyance of people who are in the server NOT to RP and might try to destroy the experience for RP'ers which is easier to do in a PvP server. But really, to me that's an added danger of the world that can be easily "embedded" in the roleplay.

 

So what is your stance on this? Why did you choose RP-PvE or RP-PvP?

 

 

// Alkara Nelien

 

 

Bottom line is this: Each individual is just that; an individual. And as such, each person has their own idea of what roleplaying is and what it involves. In otherwords, it is purely subjective.

 

That being said, this is where like minded people joining together to roleplay in a mutually appealing manner comes into play. Whether it be a PvP or PvE server matters not. What matters is that groups can immerse themselves in a manner suitable for their particular group mindset.

 

This is little different than real life group dynamics. We don't tend to gravitate toward people who are so far detatched fom our particular way of thinking as that would untimately conflict with our base values. In a game environment, we tend to gravitate toward people who share some mutual sense of propriety in the game and in play style.

 

Personally I do not play on a PvP server as it tends to interrupt my enjoyment of the storyline. I also find myself getting angry at the level of, what I perceive as, pure grieving on the part of many PvPers on PvP severs. Not all; but a great many so say the least. Nevertheless, if I feel angry when playing a game meant to entertain me, then I don't waste my time with it. In the case of PvP, I have an option to eliminate a source of anger all-together by playing on a PvE server.

 

Therefore I do not give my time to PvP on my story driven toon on the PvE server and roleplay my Jedi with great depth the same as I play my sith with the same dedication to the lore. But I still roleplay my toon and like to associate with people who will keep to the same level of interest in maintaining lore as I enjoy. But on on a PvE server.

Edited December 28, 2011 by patheman
Strange charactors upon posting.

[Lianathon]

"Simulation" vs "narrative" is an interesting way to look at it, but to me "simulation" and "roleplay" are one and the same. The perfect roleplaying game would allow your character to do everything you can imagine doing. Rather than type "/emote jumps up and down" you would simply have an ability to make your character jump up and down. Rather than narrate about how you are going to save the city from the orc invasion, there should actually be an orc invasion which you can then attempt to save the city from.

)

 

 

 

I think you are missing the difference. a SImulationist expects a perfect copy of the universe they treat the Star wars Galaxy as a place to interact with. A Narrativist on the other hand treats it as a STORY to interact with placing greater emphesis on storyline vs "Realism"

[patheman]

I think you are missing the difference. a SImulationist expects a perfect copy of the universe they treat the Star wars Galaxy as a place to interact with. A Narrativist on the other hand treats it as a STORY to interact with placing greater emphesis on storyline vs "Realism"

 

I laugh whenever I see the word "realisim" associated with a game environemnt about a fictional universe and technology that will never be real in our world.

 

Now I am not bagging on any particular ost by any anyone on this forum. I am just pointing out that there is too much emphasis on "realism" in MMOs, which to me actually ruins the purpose I play a game like this; to escape reality. Reality stinks alot of the time (most of the time), especially after a long day of back-breaking work, filled people who wouldn't know a rational thought if it slapped them in the face.

 

If people want realism in a game, then I might suggest the Devs include shaving and toilet breaks to the long list of player abilities. Let's see how Sith Moronous or Jedi Lollypop like it when they have to stop and drop a duece between missions. Or how about playing their toon so long that they start experiecning random damage and defense penalties due to bad knees or heart disease.

 

Reality in a game is like... well... I really dont know what.... absurd? unreasonable? self defeating? take your pick... Oh how about "impossible"... thats a good word for it.

[Banetek]

I would think Rp carebears would like to be able to think and ponder their rp story and can't do it if they are able to be ganked at any time...

[StealthNerf]

Trust me, it's there. The ganking, the general stupidity, the "LOLZ RP PVPerz 4 teh loze!"

 

It's there. Already deleted and re-rolled my RP PvP server characters so I didn't have to deal with infants in that environment.

 

I've been playing on RP-PvP servers for three years and have only seen that when servers are merged with normal PvP servers.

 

As a previous poster said, WoW RP PvP suffered due to a lack of normal PvP servers.

 

However, I've had excellent experiences on Age of Conan RP PvP servers, both Hyperboria and Cimmeria. The only problems that occurred happened when the game started to struggle and those servers had to be merged or shut down.

 

But as another poster said, infants are everywhere. What I specifically saw on Vrook Lama didn't impress me one bit...

 

*Someone trolling*

 

*RPer: "Time to ignore"*

 

*Some guy not trolling, but just rubbing people off on the wrong way*

 

*RPer: "Time to ignore".

 

The chat comments on the PvE server were annoying. Either someone was trolling, or a RPer was moaning on about how they had to ignore every second person. This is the prima donna stuff I don't want to deal with on PvE servers.

 

Now, I don't have much else bad to say about the PvE server, but my point is there are idiots everywhere.

Edited December 28, 2011 by StealthNerf

[patheman]

I would think Rp carebears would like to be able to think and ponder their rp story and can't do it if they are able to be ganked at any time...

 

Here it goes again... the "carebear" comment. This is where I do get ticked. Some jackarse who doesn't amount to anything in real life decides to call names at people who want to enjoy their gaming experience without PvP.

 

You need to check your attitude at the door friend. If you wouldn't say it to someone's face then don't say it at all. And I can tell you with some certainly, you would not call me a carebear to may face. You would definately not like the result of your psuedo, keyboard driven bravery were we in the same room.

 

Take a seat youngling. Real men are talking here.

[Cromagnum]

The simple fact is some people don't like to be killed while questing. I my self enjoy killing other people and can live with people killing me. However, some people don't enjoy it and that's why there are different server types.

[patheman]

I've been playing on RP-PvP servers for three years and have only seen that when servers are merged with normal PvP servers.

 

As a previous poster said, WoW RP PvP suffered due to a lack of normal PvP servers.

 

However, I've had excellent experiences on Age of Conan RP PvP servers, both Hyperboria and Cimmeria. The only problems that occurred happened when the game started to struggle and those servers had to be merged or shut down.

 

But as another poster said, infants are everywhere. What I specifically saw on Vrook Lama didn't impress me one bit...

 

*Someone trolling*

 

*RPer: "Time to ignore"*

 

*Some guy not trolling, but just rubbing people off on the wrong way*

 

*RPer: "Time to ignore".

 

The chat comments on the PvE server were annoying. Either someone was trolling, or a RPer was moaning on about how they had to ignore every second person. This is the prima donna stuff I don't want to deal with on PvE servers.

 

Now, I don't have much else bad to say about the PvE server, but my point is there are idiots everywhere.

 

 

They were shut down due to lack of player base on those servers and a resounding hatred for tortage brutality. PvP only server are proving less and less successful.

[StealthNerf]

They were shut down due to lack of player base on those servers and a resounding hatred for tortage brutality. PvP only server are proving less and less successful.

 

That's not the whole story...

 

By the time Cimmeria was shut down, about 10 PvE servers had shut down before it. So people were leaving servers even without 'Tortage brutality'. What killed Cimmeria was the merge with Tyranny, not its native population.

 

And once Cimmeria had shut down, most of what was left on the unofficial RP-PvE server was tavern RP.

 

Which frankly, is very very boring after a while, and a big reason why I don't want to roll on a RP PvE server. I mean, I'm all for taverns and ERP, but doing it 24/7 is ridiculous...

 

Though funnily enough, I actually have friends from Wiccana (the Conan RP PvE server) on Ajunta Pall (one of our RP PvP servers).

Edited December 28, 2011 by StealthNerf

[patheman]

That's not the whole story...

 

By the time Cimmeria was shut down, about 10 PvE servers had shut down before it.

 

And once Cimmeria had shut down, most of what was left on the unofficial RP-PvE server was tavern RP.

 

Which frankly, is very very boring after a while, and a big reason why I don't want to roll on a RP PvE server. I mean, I'm all for taverns and ERP, but doing it 24/7 is ridiculous...

 

You can't maintain a RP server in the face of a dwindling population.

 

I don't dissagree with you on any particular point. However, if you read the general banter out there, IGN nad MMOROPG.com along with a host of others, they reveal that PvP makes up about 20%-30% of the MMO population. Not in every game ofcourse, but the large majority.

 

Personally if I have a desire to PvP, it is long after I have reached end game with my toons and not before. But I am also far too... matured in years... to dedicate a large portion of my time to a game. My time is far to important to me outside of a game. Sleep as an example is a treasured asset in my life.

 

But I do not begrudge anyone their form of happiness in a game like this. To each thier own and more power to them, as long as it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.

[StealthNerf]

Oh yeah, I agree that PvE overall is a more popular game style.

 

I tend to enjoy PvE more than PvP.

 

But I still roll on RP PvP because I like the occasional thrill of open world combat (PvP minigames are the worst MMO invention ever), and there is *enough* RP to keep me satisfied.

 

RP'ers can roll on a RP-PvP server and expect to find RP, like I have on Ajunta Pall. The only thing I don't like about these debates is the people who come in and say "there's no RP at all on the PvP servers", because that's simply untrue.

Edited December 28, 2011 by StealthNerf

[patheman]

Oh yeah, I agree that PvE overall is a more popular game style.

 

I tend to enjoy PvE more than PvP.

 

But I still roll on RP PvP because I like the occasional thrill of open world combat (PvP minigames are the worst MMO invention ever), and there is *enough* RP to keep me satisfied.

 

RP'ers can roll on a RP-PvP server and expect to find RP, like I have on Ajunta Pall. The only thing I don't like about these debates is the people who come in and say "there's no RP at all on the PvP servers", because that's simply untrue.

 

Oh I infact agree that RP is probably more compelling and immersive on a PvP server. In W... [insert game name here] I made a practice of leveling a toon on a PvE server to endgame and then paid for transfer to a PvP server once I played through the story driven solo content. Not all my toons. Just the one I intended to PvP with.

 

However those days are probably over and that was a while ago. Atleast for now and with this game I am enjoyng the storyline for each class before I consider rolling a toon on a PvP server. Maybe once I retire I will put a little more effort into PvP.

 

But I have to admit I respect and enjoy your rational on the subject

[ShadowMasterRP]

It's all down to cowardice, unfortunately.

 

RPPvE servers attract the kind of RPers who want to be as powerful as everyone else while at level 1 and in rags because they've been brainwashed by modern social trends into thinking everyone is equal.

 

So even in a game that provides a whole system specifically designed for people to compete with each other based on their gear and abilities and items and skill, they still prefer emote battles to real battles.

 

The thing is, you can't argue the topic because it's a personal choice.

 

Just as long as they don't start closing down RPPvP servers and leaving only RPPvE servers, there isn't really a problem.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ShadowMasterRP

[Lianathon]

It's all down to cowardice, unfortunately.

 

RPPvE servers attract the kind of RPers who want to be as powerful as everyone else while at level 1 and in rags because they've been brainwashed by modern social trends into thinking everyone is equal.

 

So even in a game that provides a whole system specifically designed for people to compete with each other based on their gear and abilities and items and skill, they still prefer emote battles to real battles.

 

The thing is, you can't argue the topic because it's a personal choice.

 

Just as long as they don't start closing down RPPvP servers and leaving only RPPvE servers, there isn't really a problem.

 

 

 

You can however apparently broadly insult people. Its like saying "People who roll on pvp servers only do so because they like having mechanical support for griefing" This is of course not true, and neither is your cowardly Godmoder concept.

 

Its simple Most people don't like to Deal with Pvp. No iffs ands or buts, its the truth Pvp is a minority, you can come up with all manner of deragatory term that only terms you want for the majority(and thus turn them away from pvping)

[Kalfear]

Can someone help me understand this. In my opinion Roleplaying is all about immersing yourself in the game world, feeling like you're part of it and that there's nothing unnatural stopping you from being who you want to be. So naturally I feel a PvP server, where the freedom of attacking whoever you want (on the opposite side) is present, is the best suited type of server for RP.

 

Wouldn't the PvE mechanics break immersion? You're standing next to a player of your opposing faction with your lightsaber/blaster ready but simply can't touch the person because of some other-wordly intervention called "pvp-flag". To me that breaks the spell of being in a world of war, conflict and constant danger.

 

On the other hand, I can understand the annoyance of people who are in the server NOT to RP and might try to destroy the experience for RP'ers which is easier to do in a PvP server. But really, to me that's an added danger of the world that can be easily "embedded" in the roleplay.

 

So what is your stance on this? Why did you choose RP-PvE or RP-PvP?

 

 

// Alkara Nelien

 

Its simple

 

Even the most dispicable, murderous, out of control Sith character will not attack 100% of the time

 

On a PVP server its just attack attack attack

 

There is no story

There is no role play

 

Its see enemy and attack

 

I once heard a PKer in UO say "Im role Playing a mass murderer/serial killer"

 

Its boring when 1 person plays that way

When you go the entire server playing like that, its beyond boring

 

Said it before and say it again, I have NOT seen a PVPers role play since original NWN on AOL (91-97) and thats only because NWN was turn based so you could role play in chat while you waited your turn to move in combat. Since Real Time combat hit, there has been ZERO role play in PVP.

[StealthNerf]

Its simple

 

Even the most dispicable, murderous, out of control Sith character will not attack 100% of the time

 

On a PVP server its just attack attack attack

 

There is no story

There is no role play

 

Its see enemy and attack

In a war scenario that's entirely appropriate. Opposing soldiers won't stop to chat.