Shadowclaimer Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've always considered the Jedi vs Sith sides of the force to be varying philosophies as opposed to good vs evil (which EU tends to state the former as opposed to Lucas being the latter it seems). Jedi view using emotionally charged actions as corrupting and teach that you should empty yourself of emotion before making an action. Thus the "Light" side of the force. Sith view is that charging your force powers with emotion makes them more potent, fear/anger are the most powerful emotions a human can feel. Thus the "Dark" side of the force. Since emotional force usage can consume you so easily, you can be morally consumed by anger/fear and become evil effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinnes Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Edited December 20, 2011 by Stinnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drethon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've always considered the Jedi vs Sith sides of the force to be varying philosophies as opposed to good vs evil (which EU tends to state the former as opposed to Lucas being the latter it seems). Jedi view using emotionally charged actions as corrupting and teach that you should empty yourself of emotion before making an action. Thus the "Light" side of the force. Sith view is that charging your force powers with emotion makes them more potent, fear/anger are the most powerful emotions a human can feel. Thus the "Dark" side of the force. Since emotional force usage can consume you so easily, you can be morally consumed by anger/fear and become evil effectively. This I agree with. I particularly liked the way "Traitor" dealt with light/dark. I'm kind of annoyed that they went and made it the first step of Jacen's fall to the dark side and made Vergere a Sith rather than considering light/dark to be how the Jedi wields the force, not inherent in the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADPowah Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Sorry.... this is BS... Lightside Sith = Lore killer... /snip Lightside Sith just dosen't exit... It's true that in a lot of the movies and books we don't have much in the way of a light side sith. But we do have a two interesting examples: 1) Darth Vader; in the end he kills the emperor, saves his son and returns to the light side. However, imagine that Darth Vader doesn't die at the end and instead negotiates peace with he Rebels as the new rightful Emperor. Some would see his killing of the Emperor as his ascent to power, while others would view it as his redemption. He wouldn't be a Jedi again, but he also wouldn't be the maniac Palpatine was. He'd be in essence a light side Sith. 2) Mara Jade; once a member of the Emperor's Hand to the a wife to Luke. She clearly starts at the depths of the dark side and evil and moves to a completely different alignment. At some points in her life, could she have been described as a light side Sith, I think so. Next we have multiple accounts of Jedi falling in the heat of battle, only to go back to their more centered perspective. I think this shows that neither side is absolute or that you lose power using one side or the other, it seems instead they are just better fitted for different occasions, light for peace and dark for battle. 1) Obi-Wan clearly gets angry in his final clash with Darth Maul. 2) Luke clearly goes berzerker on Vader only to pull himself back together. Finally I submit to you the groups that neither accept Sith nor Jedi teachings but use the force, showing that it isn't a necessary dedication to the ideals of these two groups that grants the power: "These [groups] could belong to either the light or dark side, or simply exist somewhere in between. Some of the more well known examples of independent Force-user groups included the Ysanna, the Witches of Dathomir, the Aing-Tii Monks, the Baran Do, the Fallanassi, the Jensaarai, the Krath, the Sorcerers of Tund and other Force-based Organizations. Also, some Force-users did not adhere to any code or creed, but were self-taught or raised and trained by independent masters. There was also a family of Force-wielders known as "The Ones" on the planet Mortis." - Wookiepedia "Force-Sensitive" So in conclusion, it is true that often the polarized Light vs Dark is the focus of a story within the Star Wars universe there are many shades of grey and different circumstances. I don't think a light side Sith is any less "realistic" than a dark side Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowclaimer Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 It's true that in a lot of the movies and books we don't have much in the way of a light side sith. But we do have a two interesting examples: 1) Darth Vader; in the end he kills the emperor, saves his son and returns to the light side. However, imagine that Darth Vader doesn't die at the end and instead negotiates peace with he Rebels as the new rightful Emperor. Some would see his killing of the Emperor as his ascent to power, while others would view it as his redemption. He wouldn't be a Jedi again, but he also wouldn't be the maniac Palpatine was. He'd be in essence a light side Sith. 2) Mara Jade; once a member of the Emperor's Hand to the a wife to Luke. She clearly starts at the depths of the dark side and evil and moves to a completely different alignment. At some points in her life, could she have been described as a light side Sith, I think so. Next we have multiple accounts of Jedi falling in the heat of battle, only to go back to their more centered perspective. I think this shows that neither side is absolute or that you lose power using one side or the other, it seems instead they are just better fitted for different occasions, light for peace and dark for battle. 1) Obi-Wan clearly gets angry in his final clash with Darth Maul. 2) Luke clearly goes berzerker on Vader only to pull himself back together. Finally I submit to you the groups that neither accept Sith nor Jedi teachings but use the force, showing that it isn't a necessary dedication to the ideals of these two groups that grants the power: "These [groups] could belong to either the light or dark side, or simply exist somewhere in between. Some of the more well known examples of independent Force-user groups included the Ysanna, the Witches of Dathomir, the Aing-Tii Monks, the Baran Do, the Fallanassi, the Jensaarai, the Krath, the Sorcerers of Tund and other Force-based Organizations. Also, some Force-users did not adhere to any code or creed, but were self-taught or raised and trained by independent masters. There was also a family of Force-wielders known as "The Ones" on the planet Mortis." - Wookiepedia "Force-Sensitive" So in conclusion, it is true that often the polarized Light vs Dark is the focus of a story within the Star Wars universe there are many shades of grey and different circumstances. I don't think a light side Sith is any less "realistic" than a dark side Jedi. *claps* well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I've always considered the Jedi vs Sith sides of the force to be varying philosophies as opposed to good vs evil (which EU tends to state the former as opposed to Lucas being the latter it seems). Jedi view using emotionally charged actions as corrupting and teach that you should empty yourself of emotion before making an action. Thus the "Light" side of the force. Sith view is that charging your force powers with emotion makes them more potent, fear/anger are the most powerful emotions a human can feel. Thus the "Dark" side of the force. Since emotional force usage can consume you so easily, you can be morally consumed by anger/fear and become evil effectively. And right you are my friend.... The thing abour a the Sith... its more like a religion than an order it self... And you are trained that way... You may not be "Evil", as Darth Bane was not... But you become merciless, intolerant... You learn to live on the edge... feeling hate all the time... how can you be nice to someone who comes to you and say: "Master, I have failed, I am sorry"... You won't be nice... you are already damn angry... Have you never been rude to someone just becouse you were angry ? Imagine living like that... The philosofie of the sith says, only the stronger survive... there must be an apprentice to crave the power that someone else embodys... How can a Nice, merciful person emerge from that ? Remember... you will face 10 years of training... how can you after 10 years been treated like crap, learning to feel rage, to be merciless, sundely realize that is wrong ? It wont happaned... And the very last thing... Dark Side = emotion driven powers Light Side = emotionless driven powers You can't tap one without blocking the other... Lightside and Darkside is not about been evil or good... It's about the kind of power you use... it is the very essense of the force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun_Slinger Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) It's true that in a lot of the movies and books we don't have much in the way of a light side sith. But we do have a two interesting examples: 1) Darth Vader; in the end he kills the emperor, saves his son and returns to the light side. However, imagine that Darth Vader doesn't die at the end and instead negotiates peace with he Rebels as the new rightful Emperor. Some would see his killing of the Emperor as his ascent to power, while others would view it as his redemption. He wouldn't be a Jedi again, but he also wouldn't be the maniac Palpatine was. He'd be in essence a light side Sith. He wouldn't be Sith anymore. He would be former-SIth, redeemed sith, etc. ALso, no one argued that you are REQUIRED to be either SIth or Jedi. So don't shoot down a straw-man argument, kinda pointless. The argument is that Sith IS Dark Side. If you are Sith, you are using the Dark side. If you are not using the Dark Side, you are not Sith. The thing and its contrapositive are always both true. The converse and inverse are not necessarilly true. If you are not Sith, then you do not necessarilly use the light side. And if you use the dark side, you are not necessarilly Sith. Bam, Logic lesson. Mara Jade, Vader, they weren't Sith when they were redeemed. Further, that Obi got angry once is nothing, but other examples of fallen jedi (exar-kun), and some others are examples of the converse/inverse i.e. if you are using the dark side, you are not necessarilly sith. They ar ejust Dark Jedi. A term that seems to have gone out of use. But Dark Jedi are not Jedi, in that they follow the tenets of the Jedi order. Edited December 20, 2011 by Gun_Slinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 It's true that in a lot of the movies and books we don't have much in the way of a light side sith. But we do have a two interesting examples: 1) Darth Vader; in the end he kills the emperor, saves his son and returns to the light side. However, imagine that Darth Vader doesn't die at the end and instead negotiates peace with he Rebels as the new rightful Emperor. Some would see his killing of the Emperor as his ascent to power, while others would view it as his redemption. He wouldn't be a Jedi again, but he also wouldn't be the maniac Palpatine was. He'd be in essence a light side Sith. 2) Mara Jade; once a member of the Emperor's Hand to the a wife to Luke. She clearly starts at the depths of the dark side and evil and moves to a completely different alignment. At some points in her life, could she have been described as a light side Sith, I think so. Next we have multiple accounts of Jedi falling in the heat of battle, only to go back to their more centered perspective. I think this shows that neither side is absolute or that you lose power using one side or the other, it seems instead they are just better fitted for different occasions, light for peace and dark for battle. 1) Obi-Wan clearly gets angry in his final clash with Darth Maul. 2) Luke clearly goes berzerker on Vader only to pull himself back together. Finally I submit to you the groups that neither accept Sith nor Jedi teachings but use the force, showing that it isn't a necessary dedication to the ideals of these two groups that grants the power: "These [groups] could belong to either the light or dark side, or simply exist somewhere in between. Some of the more well known examples of independent Force-user groups included the Ysanna, the Witches of Dathomir, the Aing-Tii Monks, the Baran Do, the Fallanassi, the Jensaarai, the Krath, the Sorcerers of Tund and other Force-based Organizations. Also, some Force-users did not adhere to any code or creed, but were self-taught or raised and trained by independent masters. There was also a family of Force-wielders known as "The Ones" on the planet Mortis." - Wookiepedia "Force-Sensitive" So in conclusion, it is true that often the polarized Light vs Dark is the focus of a story within the Star Wars universe there are many shades of grey and different circumstances. I don't think a light side Sith is any less "realistic" than a dark side Jedi. Yes, you are right about what you said. But just check this. Mara and Vader are both dark side... But they do comeback from it... they do not use both sides... they are always one side... And what is more important, neither of them lives inside of the empire after they changed sides. They abandoned the dark side... Mara Jade was never a sith, she was an emperors hand... which is WAY diferent.... Vader had the philosofy, she didn't... But still... Vader did turn against Palpatine and went back to the light... The same Way Ulic Quel did... He was just NOT A SITH anymore... And Mara Jade did turn against the dark side... but she was never a sith... BUT if any of em still lived in an empire controleld world... both would be dead... Lightside chars (such as Obwan) can tap the dark side when they are angry... Thats why is said the dark side is tempting, seductive. Aplying game rules... Obiwan gained some dark side points right there.... But he never left the lightside... When a lightside char tap the darkside, he can be really powerful, becouse the angry is so great that time that he is using it... eventho he knows it is "wrong"... The only Lightside who uses darkside powers with no consequences what so ever is Mace Windu.... is you want, add my msn that I explain why... Besides him... no one does... The bottom line is... Jedis can fall to the dark side Siths can comeback from the darkside to the light.... But you can't be a Darkside Jedi (and still be in the order and serve the jedis) And you can't be a Lightside inside the sith order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 He wouldn't be Sith anymore. He would be former-SIth, redeemed sith, etc. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADPowah Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 /le snip How can a Nice, merciful person emerge from that ? Remember... you will face 10 years of training... how can you after 10 years been treated like crap, learning to feel rage, to be merciless, sundely realize that is wrong ? It wont happaned... I think to take such a binary look at the stories over simplifies the matter. Redemption is a common re-occurance throughout SW so much so that it is basically the go to battle cry of the Jedi. It's true that very few who drink the dark side kool-aide decide to change their course but if the Jedi stopped offering it or believed it wasn't viable then their whole order would be called into question. I think it is really only the Sith themselves that believe there are no other paths to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I think to take such a binary look at the stories over simplifies the matter. Redemption is a common re-occurance throughout SW so much so that it is basically the go to battle cry of the Jedi. It's true that very few who drink the dark side kool-aide decide to change their course but if the Jedi stopped offering it or believed it wasn't viable then their whole order would be called into question. I think it is really only the Sith themselves that believe there are no other paths to talk. But yes, it is... You are also right... BUT... and here comes the big BUT You would LEAVE the Sith Order... You cannot live inside the Sith Order not been a darkside anymore... How can you, a nice person, who preaches the peace, calmness, and so on, live among those who have no patient what so ever... AND, WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT... you would be UNABLE to use any darkside power... Lightning, choke, etc, would be out of your reach... So you can't be a sith, lightside, and use darkside powers... You can be an imperial agente or a bounty hunter and be lightside, or darkside, dosen't matter... but you can't be a sith in the lightside, and samething for a jedi... SPECIALLY if you understand what is to be a member of an order... Every member of an order has to follow a code... and what is the sith code? Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. how can you not follow the code, or evenmore, be against the code, and be a member of the order ? you just can't Its like been christian, but dosen't belive in god... Order, from the dictionary: Social order, a concept used in sociology, history and other social sciences, referring to the conduct of society How can you live in the sith society, sith order, and not follow the conduct of the society itself... it already puts you out of the order... got it ? And plz don't say that you can be a lightside and use darkside powers... that dosen't make sense at all... and stated before... Bane, Exar, and many others already proved this is not possible... Edited December 20, 2011 by drollzito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADPowah Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I see what the two of you are saying that Sith, as a philosophy, must always be dark side. So it seems like more of a misunderstanding on definitions (primarily on my part). I had a larger response with spoilers semi-composed but I realized it came down to this: Most Sith accept the current ways and work within that framework and ideals, they are in a sense shackled by what they believe is bringing them freedom. If you play a light side Sith it is very obvious by the way the story develops that you reject some of the principals of the order. For instance, typically you will reject deception in favor of honor. You will reject meaningless bloodshed and take time to develop hidden talents. And finally you will prove your path is valid either by an evidenced history or by martial might. I don't think this course makes you reformed, it simply means you are independently deciding on what parts of the code are actually useful and which are simply traditions or conveniences. This course itself isn't unusual being that the Sith themselves are self proclaimed reformers. "The Sith saw themselves as seekers, challengers of old and stagnant ways, in touch with the laws of nature and the universe."--Code of the Sith, Wookiepedia Edited December 20, 2011 by ADPowah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I see what the two of you are saying that Sith, as a philosophy, must always be dark side. So it seems like more of a misunderstanding on definitions (primarily on my part). I had a larger response with spoilers semi-composed but I realized it came down to this: Most Sith accept the current ways and work within that framework and ideals, they are in a sense shackled by what they believe is bringing them freedom. If you play a light side Sith it is very obvious by the way the story develops that you reject some of the principals of the order. For instance, typically you will reject deception in favor of honor. You will reject meaningless bloodshed and take time to develop hidden talents. And finally you will prove your path is valid either by an evidenced history or by martial might. I don't think this course makes you reformed, it simply means you are independently deciding on what parts of the code are actually useful and which are simply traditions or conveniences. This course itself isn't unusual being that the Sith themselves are self proclaimed reformers. "The Sith saw themselves as seekers, challengers of old and stagnant ways, in touch with the laws of nature and the universe."--Code of the Sith, Wookiepedia But by definition, if a Sith went to the lightside, he would be unable to use darkside powers... And that is what ruins the mechanic for the game... becouse you can be a sith, lightside, and also use the darkside powers... Darkside and Lightside are both lines of powers... Not good or evil, order or chaos... Lightside is a stats that you achieve by been in inner peace Darkside is a stat that you achieve by been on the edge... As I said before, you can be a nice sith guy (altho it is hard)... You can be honored... specially since most sith lords from the old sith empire were... But you can't have inner peace... that is the ligthside / darkside. If you choose to be on the edge, to use the darkside... it will be DAMN HARD to be a nice guy... since you need to hate everything and everyone... See the vicious circle? And what is more important... you have been trained for ages that anger is the right path... all the sunddenly you realize that you need innerpeace ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADPowah Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Well that is why I brought up the other force-sensitive groups that are neither Jedi or Sith. They use multiple force skills (including force lighting, Witches of Dathomir) without accepting a Sith or Jedi way or even only one side of the force. I do see your point that certain powers are diametrically opposed. Unfortunately there are examples of people using both, and apparently examples of it not being possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Well that is why I brought up the other force-sensitive groups that are neither Jedi or Sith. They use multiple force skills (including force lighting, Witches of Dathomir) without accepting a Sith or Jedi way or even only one side of the force. I do see your point that certain powers are diametrically opposed. Unfortunately there are examples of people using both, and apparently examples of it not being possible. They use both, but never at the same time... As said, Mara Jade was a hand of the emperor... but she "quit"... She would never use both dark and light side powers at same time... You "can" use both, but will be really weak at em... The only expection is a Light side char, taping into the darkside due to great hate... That is what happend to Obiwan, Anakin, and many many others... but that is all they can do... Tap... They are not dark side users... You will NEVER be able to make a Sith Sorcery Dark Ritual, as a lightside... not evan taping... the "control" powers of the darkside is only for dark side users... those really embrace it... Powers like lightning, you can use once in a while as a Light side char, but not without consequences... Every time you tap the darkside, you became weaker in the light side.... and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADPowah Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Powers like lightning, you can use once in a while as a Light side char, but not without consequences... Every time you tap the darkside, you became weaker in the light side.... and so on... "Force lightning ability was not restricted to dark-siders. Jedi and other light-siders who were strong of will and character could learn this power without falling to the dark side—but its use was viewed as inherently corrupting, and most Jedi Councils forbade its use." http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning I get what you are saying but if you go to that link it shows many sources of light side users using force lightning with no effect. Instead it was "viewed" as corrupting rather than actually being corrupting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCraeth Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Bioware lifted Kotor II's highly experimental logic, which is that the habits and morals of the different beings inhabiting the galaxy tend to be more complex than the Light and Dark Sides of the Force. An unorthodox position nearly absent from the movies. While it doesn't fulfill the literal letter of the Sith Code, generally a Light-aligned would consider positive emotions a greater resource of strength than negative ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Bioware lifted Kotor II's highly experimental logic, which is that the habits and morals of the different beings inhabiting the galaxy tend to be more complex than the Light and Dark Sides of the Force. An unorthodox position nearly absent from the movies. While it doesn't fulfill the literal letter of the Sith Code, generally a Light-aligned would consider positive emotions a greater resource of strength than negative ones. Tell that to Bane "I am not a man of words. But I respect the power of words, for that is what transformed me. The words of the Sith Code. Others had heard them, contemplated them, and so on. But I understood them, and they changed me. For what was I before I heard those words? Nothing." ―Darth Bane, Dark Lord of the Sith Which, btw was a book written by a Bioware employee... One of the KOTOR 1 developers. What is stressed by Yoda is that deep feelings will lead you to the darkside... Such as Love... It is a great emotion right ? If you see your beloved one dying... If someone harms your beloved one... and so on... Also, it leads to fear... Fear of loosing your beloved one... Yoda made it very clear, even the best feeling, can lead you to the dark side... Been a lightside, is not been GOOD, is not been "Correct"... is been Emotionless Emotionless ppl tend to be good ppl, becouse they feel nothing "bad" about the others... Specially a Jedi, since their order is about protecting the galaxy... The same goes for the siths... Ppl who are always angry tend to be "evil", becouse as I said... can you imagine someone comming to you and saying: "Master I have failed"?... and you are damn pissed off already.... And as the jedis, they are an order who belive the weaker have no place in the world... conquer or be conquered... So you have: Jedi Order - Protect the Galaxy + Think they need to be emotionless = Good Guys Sith Order - Conquer or be Conquered + Think they need to angry all the time = Bad Guys an order is about Ideals If you do not follow those ideals, you will no longer be accepted in that Order... Imagine a Light Side Sith coming to the Dark Council and saying: Hey guys, I think the lightside is better... GG he is dead... Or the other way around A Jedi of the dark side goes to the Jedi council and says: Hey guys, I think the dark side is better... GG this guy will be severed from the force Edited December 20, 2011 by drollzito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drethon Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 But by definition, if a Sith went to the lightside, he would be unable to use darkside powers... And that is what ruins the mechanic for the game... becouse you can be a sith, lightside, and also use the darkside powers... Darkside and Lightside are both lines of powers... Not good or evil, order or chaos... Lightside is a stats that you achieve by been in inner peace Darkside is a stat that you achieve by been on the edge... There is a difference between intent and action. If someone is a good person but follows orders they believe are right which lead to the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people are they evil? If a person just like to kill but joins the military so they can kill legally without getting arrested are they a good person? I'm sure there are lots of people out there who are very good people normally but hand them a weapon and tell them that all those people over there ***** and pillaged innocents they would go into a blood rage and start slaughtering. This is what I consider to be a light side Jedi, they kill for the right reasons but they sure as hell aren't peaceful doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntie Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) The Key is the Sith philosophy as stated: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. This is revolution, rebellion and the breaking of ones own chains. Using raw passion to forge a will of iron to break those chains. It also hints at a possible very early Sith beginning in slavery and revolt. Adversity, trials, pain and suffering are to be endured and overcome. Survival and the act of fighting back makes you stronger and stronger till victory is won by your own hand and you gain mastery of yourself. It is a warrior ethos. For a light side Sith the aim would be personal mastery and strength of self. With it would come respect and honouring of those that also struggle to gain that mastery. Other Sith would be fellow warriors that have broken their chains through their own efforts. For a dark sided Sith it would be more about gaining the strength and power to gain the victory, even at the expense of others. Others are seen as competitors for the same victory. This is analogous to setting a group the same task - run 10 miles. Some will just want to prove they have the strength to run those 10 miles - and will happily encourage others on the race. Others will immedaitely start thinking about being first - even though it is a task not a race, they will turn it into one and may resent any that pass them. Thus separates the light from the dark side. Nowhere does it state that this power and strength is to be used to subjugate others. It is a personal battle for mastery of the self. Same as the Jedi, but from a differnt focus. However, just as the Jedi desire for personal peace lead them to seek to impose that same peace of others - whether they want it or not. The Sith passion, strength and power would lead inevitably to power seeking and warfare for challenges to overcome. This could be viewed as a warrior culture thriving on challenge, or as an aggresive violent culture depending on the point of view of the observers. For the Jedi and their imposition of peace - definately the latter. And the logical Jedi saw that the only solution to impose emotionless peace was genocide of the Sith. Surley an evil act if ever there was one, but rationalised as 'neccessary' for 'the greater good'. Is it any wonder that the Sith religion has become more angry and brutal and revenge orientated. Wouldn't you if someone tried Genocide on you? I believe that the original Sith faith was not intrinsicaly evil, nor is the Dark Side, but context and History have pushed it embittered into the Shadows where its worst traits have become magnified and risen to prominance. As with many religions great evil is being done in its name, but not as it actually teaches. Edited December 20, 2011 by Stuntie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromoc Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 From a certain point of view, there are no sides to the force, there is just the force. The whole light side/dark side is what you do with it. It’s a hammer. I can either build a house for someone, or bash their skull in. The more I bash people’s skull in and less I build houses, the harder it is for me to build a house. But that doesn’t mean I can’t build one, I just need the practice. I prefer to be able to use all of the force and not handicap myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caiphus Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Republic= liberalism and egalitarianism Empire = order and hierachicalism Jedi = philosophy of peace and being at one with the force and attempting to interpret the will of the force Sith = gaining power through bending the force to your will Light = benevolence & detachment dark = selfishness & passion there are varying degrees that these ideals can be mixed together and that is why it is so contentious. good and evil are relative... The force doesn't care about any of these trivial things. This is my personal opinion. I have very little EU knowledge, but I enjoy the fact that these things can be debated both in universe and by those of us who have taken enjoyment from investing in a galaxy far, far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSleeper Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I would play a Sith as using any emotion as a means to an end, be it anger and hatred or love and kindness. Even in TOR itself you have an example of love through Darth Malgus's wife. Edited December 21, 2011 by JSleeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The Key is the Sith philosophy as stated: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. This is revolution, rebellion and the breaking of ones own chains. Using raw passion to forge a will of iron to break those chains. It also hints at a possible very early Sith beginning in slavery and revolt. Adversity, trials, pain and suffering are to be endured and overcome. Survival and the act of fighting back makes you stronger and stronger till victory is won by your own hand and you gain mastery of yourself. It is a warrior ethos. For a light side Sith the aim would be personal mastery and strength of self. With it would come respect and honouring of those that also struggle to gain that mastery. Other Sith would be fellow warriors that have broken their chains through their own efforts. For a dark sided Sith it would be more about gaining the strength and power to gain the victory, even at the expense of others. Others are seen as competitors for the same victory. This is analogous to setting a group the same task - run 10 miles. Some will just want to prove they have the strength to run those 10 miles - and will happily encourage others on the race. Others will immedaitely start thinking about being first - even though it is a task not a race, they will turn it into one and may resent any that pass them. Thus separates the light from the dark side. Nowhere does it state that this power and strength is to be used to subjugate others. It is a personal battle for mastery of the self. Same as the Jedi, but from a differnt focus. However, just as the Jedi desire for personal peace lead them to seek to impose that same peace of others - whether they want it or not. The Sith passion, strength and power would lead inevitably to power seeking and warfare for challenges to overcome. This could be viewed as a warrior culture thriving on challenge, or as an aggresive violent culture depending on the point of view of the observers. For the Jedi and their imposition of peace - definately the latter. And the logical Jedi saw that the only solution to impose emotionless peace was genocide of the Sith. Surley an evil act if ever there was one, but rationalised as 'neccessary' for 'the greater good'. Is it any wonder that the Sith religion has become more angry and brutal and revenge orientated. Wouldn't you if someone tried Genocide on you? I believe that the original Sith faith was not intrinsicaly evil, nor is the Dark Side, but context and History have pushed it embittered into the Shadows where its worst traits have become magnified and risen to prominance. As with many religions great evil is being done in its name, but not as it actually teaches. Dood... do you know the Sith Story ? A group of Jedis who "quit" the order went to the outer rim. They found the Sith Planet. They used their power to enslave the whole race and thus they became the Lords of the Siths... becouse they would RULE them... And who do you explain the fact... You cannot use a darkside power as a lightside (without falling), and vice-versa? A lightside sith would be unable to use force lightning... plain and simple... Once again for the 10.000 times... Light and Dark side are not evil and good It is emotion and emotionless... You cannot channel the Light side powers while you are not in peace You cannot channel the dark side while you are in peace Thus is impossible for a "Sith" (using dark side powers) to exist Furthermore... The Sith order is not just the code, but the traditions, the training and so on... a Lightside Sith would be killed on sight... He would be a rogue, a hunted, an outlaw... Why ? Becouse the dark council is not light side... and they would not accept such thing. As Freedon Nadd once said to Exar Kun... You will only survive by embracing the dark side... You will only learn the secrets of the sith by embracing the dark side... You can't be a sith, and not be dark side... And what is more important... You would turn away from all that if you ever went to the lightside... why ? Becouse you would be against the whole idea and concept of what the Sith Order stands for... The code is NOT open for interpretation... there is no phylosofical thinkers among the sith who debate what the code means... the code is what it is... and those who are strong will enforce it on the weaklings... Accept it or die Live by it or die The Council would never accept a lightside sith If the council found out you were a lightside sith, they would not expel from the order... becouse THATS NOT WHAT SITHS DO.... they would KILL YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drollzito Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 From a certain point of view, there are no sides to the force, there is just the force. The whole light side/dark side is what you do with it. It’s a hammer. I can either build a house for someone, or bash their skull in. The more I bash people’s skull in and less I build houses, the harder it is for me to build a house. But that doesn’t mean I can’t build one, I just need the practice. I prefer to be able to use all of the force and not handicap myself. Noop, you are wrong my friend... You can't channel the dark side powers while you are in peace, calm You can't channel the light side powers while you are on the edge The calmer, the more peaceful you are, the stronger you are in the light side The More on the edge you are, stronger you are in the dark side... That's why you can't be both... if you live in the middle group.... you are not strong... you will never be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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