Bioware, please don't give up, we love TOR!

[Aaroneus]

The problem most likely isn't the engine. They have a good functioning base engine for it which allows the devs to work on an area the same time, and improved on that engine over the past years.

 

No, the problem much more likely lies within team size, chain of command and too much bureaucracy. It's just like with any major company really. Work on something with a team of 5? Things tend to go rapid, people are easily reached and decisions can be made quickly.

 

Have a group of 30 people working on different aspects? You'll need to start organizing meetings to keep on track, have people aim for the same direction, get approval from those taking leadership in this process, etc.

 

Work with 200 people, there's usually several departments and not at least 2 chains of command to go by to seek approval. Ideas can be created within a group, they need to be discussed with seniority. They in turn need to discuss the idea again with their boss.

 

The same will go for TOR.

 

The guys doing raids for example can come up with cool ideas, discuss this amongst each other. Then they'll have to discuss it with whoever is in charge of lead raid design. He'll discuss it with the lead game developer. And depending on the bigger the change, the bigger the need for the lead game developer to probably need to discuss it even further.

 

And just like with any major company, those things take time. Appointments will need to be made, etc. A simple idea could quickly take 3 weeks to be shot down, and a good idea could easily take 3 months to get final approval.

 

this guy gets it. +1

[vsalcedo]

Endgame content is the biggest issue.

 

There are lots of other problems with the game, but the lack of an endgaging endgame is the biggest problem for maintaining subs. Making alts is fine, i'm an altaholic and even that isn't enough for me.

 

Players need something fun and challenging to do when they get to fifty. Dalies get boring very quickly.

 

My suggestion is to release a very challenging planet that cannot be done solo. Put world mobs in hard to reach places that require well geared groups, and raid forces, to take down. Put the best gear on them. Give people a challenge and a reward for their risk. Make the hardest bosses almost impossible to beat (remember the Sleeper?).

 

And obviously world PvP needs work.

 

They have all that except the world pvp and the hard planet. Unless your in some uber guild that raids way too much you havent done hardmode EC or Denova. I know Im not geared for them yet and top op I've done is HM EV. Some guilds take things slow buddy we dont want to rush.

[--Grim--]

They have all that except the world pvp and the hard planet. Unless your in some uber guild that raids way too much you havent done hardmode EC or Denova. I know Im not geared for them yet and top op I've done is HM EV. Some guilds take things slow buddy we dont want to rush.

 

I'm not a fan of calling "hardmode", new content. It's just a cheesy way of regurgitating something the player has done before. I'm not against hardmode as a gameplay element, but it should never be considered new content.

 

Repeating dailies and content you have done before, is boring. To keep the game alive and thriving, they need more variety, and new, challenging content that only level 50's can do.

Edited July 27, 2012 by --Grim--

[Alavastre]

I dig it Bioware. Keep it going. I'm going to stick it out with you because I love the game. Just wanted to throw another post in support of this thread. It's always darkest before dawn.

[Alavastre]

I'm not a fan of calling "hardmode", new content. It's just a cheesy way of regurgitating something the player has done before. I'm not against hardmode as a gameplay element, but it should never be considered new content.

 

Repeating dailies and content you have done before, is boring. To keep the game alive and thriving, they need more variety, and new content that only level 50's can do.

 

That is what they're doing with Makeb is it not?

[--Grim--]

That is what they're doing with Makeb is it not?

 

Yep, a little late, and not sure how challenging it is, but new content is good. And they have to keep it coming.

[DarthTHC]

Yep, a little late, and not sure how challenging it is, but new content is good. And they have to keep it coming.

 

I'd lay money that the bulk of its challenge will be in overcoming bugs and glitches rather than the design of the content, just like all the other ops.

[DarkZeron]

They have 20 day to show me they didn't give up.

 

So far it seems they did.

[Sarfux]

They have 20 day to show me they didn't give up.

 

So far it seems they did.

 

How exactly did they give up? Please I would like to hear what you think.

[DarthTHC]

How exactly did they give up? Please I would like to hear what you think.

 

Which quarter are they targeting for 1.4?

[DarkZeron]

How exactly did they give up? Please I would like to hear what you think.

 

Look at the things they are patching, look at the news we are getting, look at the communication we are gettting in the last few weeks, even month. I saw this in Age of Conan once, and that made me a believer no more.

 

In my opinion they gave up, does it mean i am right? Of course not, but as i said i don't believe in the MMO developers anymore.

[Eldrenath]

I genuinely enjoy playing this game, but I am not too impressed with BioWare's current track record. The two MMOs I have invested the most time in (LOTRO and Rift) pushed new content in the first year at a MASSIVELY faster rate than BW does. They had constant press releases about what was coming and WHEN. BW does tell about upcoming stuff, but when can we expect it? This month? Next quarter? Next year? I suspect they don't set release dates because they don't know that they can reach them. I know developing a game is not like building an airplane: there's not a schematic and a design already completely laid out, and a lot of unexpected problems can arise in programming. But even "Q&A" type things they release are very vague. It's never "we're gonna do X, Y, and Z and push it out sometime in Q3." It's more like "Well, we've heard that players don't like this one thing, we're gonna look into it at some point in the future."

 

On the other hand, if I were a game developer, the last thing I'd ever want to do is communicate with gamers. They complain about everything. Do something that group A loves and group B burns you in effigy. Gamers are nearly impossible to please. And the unhappy gamer is the loudest, most obnoxious customer in the world--and a customer that becomes emotionally invested to an almost creepy level in trying to drag a game down. Gamers, in general, have completely disparate points of view and absurd expectations, 90% of which are based on "WoW added it 5 years after launch, this game should have it at launch. Every game that ever launches ever should have every single thing WoW has ever had, then on top of that they should have some new amazing innovative thing, but only if they already have the WoW stuff."

 

For example, all the complaining about groupfinder. I really like group finder. But everyone around here was like "in this day and age it's absolutely absurd that any game launch without group finder. Sure they added it and that's great but it shoulda been in at launch because WoW has it RAWR!!!!!"

 

Many MMOs launch without group finder. LOTRO did, Rift did, WoW did...in fact, I can't think of a single MMO I've played that had a group finder at launch. Yet somehow, gamers here all spouted on and on about how its standard practice to have it, shouldn't have been launched without it, etc etc. Yet...it seems MOST MMOs launch without it.

 

So in sum, yeah, I hope BW doesn't quit. And I really don't think they've done a great job so far. But I like the game a lot still, and I certainly don't hold it against them that they don't want to communicate with their subscribers. I wouldn't either if I were them. But this is their job, they knew the market they were getting into before they did so, and we all have to do things we don't really want to as adults. So it would be nice if they got on the stick and started communicating with the subscribers, as annoying as we all are.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Eldrenath

[Eldrenath]

That's just not true, otherwise the 30 people I came to SWTOR with wouldn't have quit.

 

Each and everyone of them said things that have been repeated 1000 time on here before they quit, but few of them even came to the forums.

 

You have a valid point. But one thing I'd point out is that the MMO shelf life is not like it was years ago. There are so many games coming out all the time and the many, many games that have been out for ages that it's unrealistic to expect large groups of people to stay in an MMO for longer than 6 months. No game developer can churn out content at the rate the gamers burn through it (that's not to say that BW has churned out a lot of content: their updates have been few and thin).

 

However, that's not to discount that the people you played here with had genuine complaints and quit as a result. I think it's pretty simplistic to say "everyone in-game loves it, only the forums are bad". Certainly a dissatisfied customer is much more likely to make their voice heard than a satisfied one, but I think there are certainly a pretty good amount of people who were disappointed with TOR. It's just that I think most people that complain about a game will also be making complaints in the next one. MMOs are weird that way, they have to appeal to so many people and have so many different people playing the EXACT same game at once that no game will ever be all things to all players. And with so very, very many gaming options available people play one game for a few months and then move on much more so then they used to. They become much less invested in a game because a) they didn't spend 6 months just to get to the endgame in the first place and b) there are SO MANY OPTIONS. And lots and lots of games can be amazing as a new experience but quickly wear thin. And it's possible to hop from game to game to game now much more easily than you could 5 years ago because MMOs are constantly being released.

[Crabbits]

I love this game. There is not a better mmo out there for me right now. I'm in it for the long haul.

[Jenzali]

While there are a lot of opinions being thrown around, one fact that can not really be argued is speed of updates. While WoW usually has a year or so between tiers, SWTOR added one a few months in, so they actually were developing quite fast and made an incredible amount of patches, especially back when they would patch every single week. The group finder and server transfers were added quickly and flawlessly by MMO standards.

 

This is not to say it won't be slowing down now and in the future due to the downsizing and layoffs. But if 1.4 comes soon they can keep up the good speed record.

[metalgearyoda]

the GW2 scientologist.

 

The only reason you like swtor is because you are being confused by thetans.

 

With the low rate of 500 dollars an hour you can have a rank 1 thetan cleansing. Payment options are available.

[Kozzmozz]

i love it too and am still on my 3th character!! i even havent playrd the rep side!

[LordChucks]

While there are a lot of opinions being thrown around, one fact that can not really be argued is speed of updates. While WoW usually has a year or so between tiers, SWTOR added one a few months in, so they actually were developing quite fast and made an incredible amount of patches, especially back when they would patch every single week. The group finder and server transfers were added quickly and flawlessly by MMO standards.

 

This is not to say it won't be slowing down now and in the future due to the downsizing and layoffs. But if 1.4 comes soon they can keep up the good speed record.

 

True, the speed of their updates is not bad. I know some will try and find old quotes about monthly updates, but I think that should have been taken with a grain of salt at the time, it is just unreasonable to expect large content updates every month in a MMO (especially one which has added layers of work upon itself with cutscnees and VO to even the smallest additions).

 

That being said, I am not thrilled with the updates. I think they are updating the wrong things. More of the same is not what I believe this game needs, it needs tweaks to existing systems to make what we already have more fun. There is plenty of content already to keep people occupied if the game was not so much of a drag to actually play.

 

As to the OP, I must unfortunately say that I do not "love" TOR. I love Star Wars, and will give almost any SW product at least a shot, but TOR is a "meh" on it's best days. The slow and clunky combat and controls, the excess of loading screens, the massive credit costs for even the most minor of ingame customization, the static and unchanging game worlds, the linear (often hallway layout) of planets, the small scale PvP, the singleplayer-only space content, all this is quickly driving me away. These are the sorts of issues I wish were being addressed in patches, not new flashpoints where we just get new backdrops and VO in which to experience all these issues over again.

 

They could add a new flashpoint every week, or every few days, it would make no difference. So long as the sorts of issues I mentioned above I cannot see the game being fun to play. At this point I really have my fingers crossed for some major system redesigns in the first xpack because I am not seeing the kind of fixes to core systems in these patches I was hoping to see. I love Star Wars, I want to love (or at least like) TOR, but the game is not making it easy.

[Daethorz]

Bioware, PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR CUSTOMERS.

 

The Vast majority of posts the last month have been negative, even for this forums standard.

This game is now hanging by a thread. If You(Bioware), do not act immediately, you will be shunned.

 

I have given Extremely over-thought suggestions, so have many other people, Listen to us.

 

Most of us are SICK OF WoW's Endgame, and thats exactly what we got with swtor.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Daethorz

[Nearbo]

SWTOR is not a terrible game, it just needs a lot of work, unfortunately they released the game way earlier than it should have been released. They promised to deliver Kotor 3-4-5 in one game and they delivered on that, it's just the game is missing a certain something for me. I still enjoy the game, but all of the games that I have really enjoyed, whether its an MMO or an Xbox game, have all had some part of the game where I was incredibly impressed. Swtor honestly lacks that for me, it's good in a lot of areas, but not mind blowingly awesome in any one area.

[Daethorz]

SWTOR is not a terrible game, it just needs a lot of work, unfortunately they released the game way earlier than it should have been released. They promised to deliver Kotor 3-4-5 in one game and they delivered on that, it's just the game is missing a certain something for me. I still enjoy the game, but all of the games that I have really enjoyed, whether its an MMO or an Xbox game, have all had some part of the game where I was incredibly impressed. Swtor honestly lacks that for me, it's good in a lot of areas, but not mind blowingly awesome in any one area.

 

Its missing a "Certain something" for everyone, and that's something unique and fun, something WoW dosent have.

Its sad, hopefully they will get it right before they trash it with a P2W system, if they do fix it ill be back, that is if they can pull me away from GW2.

 

My Ratings for Swtor:

Leveling 8.5/10 (Non-Linear questhubs would make it 10/10)

Graphics 7.5/10 (Skyrim would be 9.5/10 for me)

Endgame 1.5/10 (WoW is 1/10)

Endgame for me is keeping me busy and amused, right now its so repetitive and short-sighted that its... unplayable, Tons of minigames, offrail space combat, etc from my suggestion list, each one would add like .5, swoop racing, well made could be like 1.5 in ittself.

Graphics in Swtor kinda remind me of oblivion though, loading grass when you move near it, highly noticeable, id like a option to turn that up a ton, i will upgrade my graphics card for it, lol.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Daethorz

[Nearbo]

Sorry, but Swtor made me feel "wow, compared to WoW swtor isent much better", and i HATE WoW, i want to punch everyone who plays it.

 

WoW Endgame = Swtor Endgame, Any Questions?

We Sit in Fleet, Just like Orgrimmar, Waiting for Ques, Just like WoW, it cant get any simpler than that, Im sick of trying to get it acrost to superfanboys who speak some language only they know.

 

Most of us want ANY MMO that dosent have WoW's endgame, and THATS why we are flocking to Gw2.

 

I blame the community's for a lack of end game. In SWG their was literally no end game at all, it was up to the players to make their end game, and it was incredibly enjoyable for those that played the game. Players choose to sit on the fleet, no one forces them to sit on the fleet trolling people in general chat.

[DarthHuss]

Most of us want ANY MMO that dosent have WoW's endgame, and THATS why we are flocking to Gw2.

 

You already know that game will fail, that content will dry up so fast and then they won't have any way of adding new stuff because they made the game F2P.

[Daethorz]

I view Gw2 as a large RPG that just happens to be a MMO, hopefully itll get cool updates.

 

Still, Swtor is not giving me enough amusement, infact its not giving me much amusement compared to WoW, thats why i am desperate for something that will.

[Daethorz]

I blame the community's for a lack of end game. In SWG their was literally no end game at all, it was up to the players to make their end game, and it was incredibly enjoyable for those that played the game. Players choose to sit on the fleet, no one forces them to sit on the fleet trolling people in general chat.

 

That's why so many people still play WoW, they are amused by very little, they will go outside and kick a rock around for hours on end and be content.

 

I'm not like that, i need constant amusement, if i don't have it ill log off, if i don't get it for awhile and decide its not worth the $15/mo, i simply will look for something that will.