Spec Help

[MaximumBatman]

I am looking for some good advice on my spec. I am currently a combat specced sentinel and I can parse out 1450-1550 damage but I seem to have hit a ceiling on my damage. Since obtaining full Rakata and some BH gear my dps hasnt gone up much from my Columi gear. So the other night well running some new 50s through EV story mode I switched to Watchmen spec to try it out. For some reason reason I could not get much dps out of it. I know it does high dps and I am hoping maybe to figure it out and see if it has a ceiling to give my group a boost when we do EC HM next week. Can anyone give me some advice and/or help me with the rotation. I will post my rotation that I was using down below.

 

Force Leap-Overload Saber-Zealous Strike-Cauterize-Merciless Slash-Masterstrike

 

Looking for any feedback/advice guys. Thanks

[SalBasss]

What's your build?

 

That's a good starting rotation, but what about after that? Are you using OS on cooldown? Keeping cauterize on the target but not clipping it? What other skills are you using?

[MaximumBatman]

What's your build?

 

That's a good starting rotation, but what about after that? Are you using OS on cooldown? Keeping cauterize on the target but not clipping it? What other skills are you using?

 

I was using this build here: http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/jedi-knight/jedi-sentinel/watchman/talent-builds

Not sure how good it is. Would like some feedback on it. I am using OS everytime it is up as well as cauterize. Not sure what you mean by clipping. (My first MMO) I try to keep that same rotation and keep my focus up. Looking for some help on all this. Thanks

[Xiij]

I understand the mentality of wanting to have a skill rotation; however, I feel like with watchman at least that may not be the best mentality as far as skill use. I like to think of it as a skill priority table, basically use the top most skill in the table when it is up (obviously not always the case, but a general rule of thumb).

 

*Force Leap (When not in melee range or focus is low and Zealous Strike is on CD)

*Force Kick (When a spell is being cast that is interrupt-able)

Riposte

*Inspiration / Zen (When stacks are available, inspiration when you need DPS boost also preferably with Relic)

Overload Saber

Cauterize

Dispatch

Zealous Strike

Merciless Strike

Blade Storm

Slash

Master Strike

Strike

 

That's the list I go by...

 

EDIT: My spec 10/0/31

Edited July 27, 2012 by Xiij

[gunte]

I understand the mentality of wanting to have a skill rotation; however, I feel like with watchman at least that may not be the best mentality as far as skill use. I like to think of it as a skill priority table, basically use the top most skill in the table when it is up (obviously not always the case, but a general rule of thumb).

 

*Force Leap (When not in melee range or focus is low and Zealous Strike is on CD)

*Force Kick (When a spell is being cast that is interrupt-able)

Riposte

*Inspiration / Zen (When stacks are available, inspiration when you need DPS boost also preferably with Relic)

Overload Saber

Cauterize

Dispatch

Zealous Strike

Merciless Strike

Blade Storm

Slash

Master Strike

Strike

 

That's the list I go by...

 

EDIT: My spec 10/0/31

 

Im sorry but do not listen to this guy.. First of all if you use riposte whenever its available u can easily focus starve yourself causing you to miss certain abilities off their CD, forcing you to strike spam and reducing overall DPS.

 

Secondly, do NOT use blade storm as a watchman sentinel it is a complete waste.

 

Third, master strike LESS priority than slash?..... Master strike is one of your highest damage abilities and guess what, its free as well, try to keep it on CD.

 

Priority should be more like:

 

Merciless slash (if not using it will cause you to lose merciless buff)

OS

Cauterize

Dispatch

Merciless slash

Master strike

Zealous strike

Force leap

Slash (can be used higher in priority if high on focus and need cauterize proc)

Strike

 

Use Zen when you get the third stack of OS for maximum DPS output.

Edited July 28, 2012 by gunte

[Xiij]

Im sorry but do not listen to this guy.. First of all if you use riposte whenever its available u can easily focus starve yourself causing you to miss certain abilities off their CD, forcing you to strike spam and reducing overall DPS.

 

Secondly, do NOT use blade storm as a watchman sentinel it is a complete waste.

 

Third, master strike LESS priority than slash?..... Master strike is one of your highest damage abilities and guess what, its free as well, try to keep it on CD.

 

I respect that your opinion is different from mine, but just because it's not the same opinion you have doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

First, Riposte won't cause you to be force starved in Ops because you really shouldn't ever be able to use it, assuming your tank keeps aggro the whole time.

 

Second, Blade Storm is very useful in fights where you have to be mobile. For example when fighting the Heavy Fabricator in Karagga's Palace, when the tanks switch aggro (we keep him in the first box the whole time) the boss moves slightly and could cause you to go out of melee range. While you're moving back into melee range (while avoiding the cannon fire box) you can Blade Storm since it is a ranged attack.

 

Third, I agree that Master Strike provides a large amount of dps; however it has two problems. One, it has a large channel time, there are several mechanics that would prevent you from using the full Master Strike (knock backs, stuns, having to move out of AOE attacks, having to move out of red circles, having to go eat your lightning ball on Soa, etc.). Two, Master Strike does not contribute to the Watchman "plan", it doesn't add a DoT, it doesn't reset the cool down on Cauterize. The reason I use slash as a higher priority is because it resets Cauterize and allows me to do more DoT dps (which is what attributes to a large portion of Watchman dps).

 

Anyway, in end-game you won't ever be using Riposte, but it is a nice "free" skill since it doesn't activate the global cool down. I could understand not using blade storm in a situation where you don't ever have to move (EV the council). I still believe pretty firmly that Master Strike is a double-edged sword (I still use it, but find that I often end up canceling it with movement prior to it's completion in most boss fights).

[BlznSmri]

Stolen from my own post on my guild forums:

DPS priority list because rotations are lame.

1.Dispatch: When target is under 30% health. It's your kill shot. Go kill things with it.

2.Overload Saber: This is your highest damage burn, use it religiously.

3.Merciless Slash: Highest damage direct attack that had a 7.5 second cooldown at 3 stacks of Merciless, part of maximizing damage in this tree is making sure you always have 3 stacks of Merciless. Merciless Slash also has a 66% chance to reset the cooldown on Cauterize.

4.Cauterize: Use this off cooldown when available but only when Overload Saber and Merciless Slash are on cool down.

5.Slash: Used as a Centering builder and has a 33% chance to reset the cooldown on Cauterize

6.Zealous Strike: Use off cool down whenever your have less than six focus.

7.Force Leap: Focus Builder plus mobility plus interrupt. Use it as religiously or as sparingly as the current fight requires.

8.Strike: Builds focus. Nuff said.

 

As an aside: Master Strike may be used sparingly on occasions when you are completely out of focus and Zealous Strike and Force Leap have more than 2 seconds left on their cooldown. It is decent "free" damage over three seconds. I do not recommend that newcomers to the spec try to fit this ability in until they're comfortable with the flow, if you will, of the spec.

[gunte]

I respect that your opinion is different from mine, but just because it's not the same opinion you have doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

First, Riposte won't cause you to be force starved in Ops because you really shouldn't ever be able to use it, assuming your tank keeps aggro the whole time.

 

Second, Blade Storm is very useful in fights where you have to be mobile. For example when fighting the Heavy Fabricator in Karagga's Palace, when the tanks switch aggro (we keep him in the first box the whole time) the boss moves slightly and could cause you to go out of melee range. While you're moving back into melee range (while avoiding the cannon fire box) you can Blade Storm since it is a ranged attack.

 

Third, I agree that Master Strike provides a large amount of dps; however it has two problems. One, it has a large channel time, there are several mechanics that would prevent you from using the full Master Strike (knock backs, stuns, having to move out of AOE attacks, having to move out of red circles, having to go eat your lightning ball on Soa, etc.). Two, Master Strike does not contribute to the Watchman "plan", it doesn't add a DoT, it doesn't reset the cool down on Cauterize. The reason I use slash as a higher priority is because it resets Cauterize and allows me to do more DoT dps (which is what attributes to a large portion of Watchman dps).

 

Anyway, in end-game you won't ever be using Riposte, but it is a nice "free" skill since it doesn't activate the global cool down. I could understand not using blade storm in a situation where you don't ever have to move (EV the council). I still believe pretty firmly that Master Strike is a double-edged sword (I still use it, but find that I often end up canceling it with movement prior to it's completion in most boss fights).

 

Its clear that you have not done a lot of parsing on dummies trying to figure out whats what.

 

Regarding master strike: Obviously you dont use master strike when you have to move, but if you have the slightest knowledge of the encounter you know when you have the tiny 3 seconds needed for it to finish. If you play the encounter like a headless chicken, you might want to refrain from using it.

 

Regarding blade storm: You say its very useful on the move like on fabricator. Im sorry but if the little to no movement on the fabricator is too much to be able to stay in melee range 100% then you most likely need to learn to hit your keys without looking at your keyboard. Personally i dont find that very hard.

Secondly we were talking about a Rotation/priority list. Perhaps you should have put blade storm on a separate "When out of melee range and high on focus" priority list, preferably at the bottom of that list.

 

Regarding riposte: since you had it on top of your priority list i assumed you used it whenever possible, but yes in a boss encounter you wont have the chance to use it much, but even if you could, use it sparingly.

Also you said:

"First, Riposte won't cause you to be force starved in Ops because you really shouldn't ever be able to use it, assuming your tank keeps aggro the whole time."

But.. whats the differance between not being able to use it and choosing not to use it? By saying what you said you are agreeing with me that using riposte the way you put it in your priority list will in fact focus starve you.

 

But hey, why dont you go parse when using your priority list and ill go use mine and we can see whos is better?

[Xiij]

Regarding master strike: Obviously you dont use master strike when you have to move, but if you have the slightest knowledge of the encounter you know when you have the tiny 3 seconds needed for it to finish. If you play the encounter like a headless chicken, you might want to refrain from using it.

 

You didn't specify that. I know you know not to use it when you have to move, and I know not to use it when I'm not expecting to move. You're right if you know the encounter you should be able to find a time to use it, agreed; still, I feel like there are some encounters where it is a risk when you use it.

 

Regarding blade storm: You say its very useful on the move like on fabricator. Im sorry but if the little to no movement on the fabricator is too much to be able to stay in melee range 100% then you most likely need to learn to hit your keys without looking at your keyboard. Personally i dont find that very hard.

Secondly we were talking about a Rotation/priority list. Perhaps you should have put blade storm on a separate "When out of melee range and high on focus" priority list, preferably at the bottom of that list.

 

Two things here, by your remark I assume when you do HF you keep him at his starting point the entire time. Not everyone uses that strategy. Second, tanks aren't perfect, when they bounce aggro, the boss occasionally moves, and if I'm already at max range and he moves slightly to away from me in the box, I have to run around the edge of the box (which initially is further out of melee range) to safely return. And no, I don't have to look at the keyboard to move.

 

Regarding riposte: since you had it on top of your priority list i assumed you used it whenever possible, but yes in a boss encounter you wont have the chance to use it much, but even if you could, use it sparingly.

Also you said:

"First, Riposte won't cause you to be force starved in Ops because you really shouldn't ever be able to use it, assuming your tank keeps aggro the whole time."

But.. whats the differance between not being able to use it and choosing not to use it? By saying what you said you are agreeing with me that using riposte the way you put it in your priority list will in fact focus starve you.

 

You assumed wrong, but I thought it was clear that in a boss fight you wouldn't use it much due to it's condition not being met. The difference between not being able to use it and choosing not not is that by not being able to use it you don't have to option to spend the focus to add in more damage; period end of statement. By choosing not to use it, you have made the decision to presumably spend the focus in another form or fashion. The key there is you're choosing not to add damage with it. I do agree, in some situations Riposte could force starve you, but that situation is pretty specific: you are "acting" as a tank for a long period of time.

 

Either way some what of a moot point on both sides. But my mindset is, if you can use it, use it, because that probably means you're group is in scramble mode.

 

But hey, why dont you go parse when using your priority list and ill go use mine and we can see whos is better?

 

Moot point, target dummies don't have any sort mechanics that would slow down your dps like bosses do. Whose would be better? Straight up on a dummy? Yours. In a boss fight? Could be mine, could be yours, guess we'll never know.

 

1. Dispatch: When target is under 30% health. It's your kill shot. Go kill things with it.
   
2. Overload Saber: This is your highest damage burn, use it religiously.
   
3. Merciless Slash: Highest damage direct attack that had a 7.5 second cooldown at 3 stacks of Merciless, part of maximizing damage in this tree is making sure you always have 3 stacks of Merciless. Merciless Slash also has a 66% chance to reset the cooldown on Cauterize.
   
4. Cauterize: Use this off cooldown when available but only when Overload Saber and Merciless Slash are on cool down.
   
5. Slash: Used as a Centering builder and has a 33% chance to reset the cooldown on Cauterize
   
6. Zealous Strike: Use off cool down whenever your have less than six focus.
   
7. Force Leap: Focus Builder plus mobility plus interrupt. Use it as religiously or as sparingly as the current fight requires.
   
8. Strike: Builds focus. Nuff said.

 

As an aside: Master Strike may be used sparingly on occasions when you are completely out of focus and Zealous Strike and Force Leap have more than 2 seconds left on their cooldown. It is decent "free" damage over three seconds. I do not recommend that newcomers to the spec try to fit this ability in until they're comfortable with the flow, if you will, of the spec.

 

Nice priority list. I like the note about MS too. Two things:

First, could you link to your guide for other people who read this thread?

Second, why are 3 and 4 ordered that way (I'm sure you have a reason for doing so)?

 

Is building the extra stack of Merciless worth missing out on the chance of getting an extra cauterize in? Now that I say it like that, I guess I could see the potential bonus.

 

 

 

As an independent note about master strike: I know that (with no critical strikes or all critical strikes) the final (third) strike of master strike does the most damage (and ~50% of the total damage [rough estimate from "eyeballing it"]). Has anyone noticed that there is a small window of time between the final strike and when the channel ends? I can't tell if it's lag or something else. But, if there is a time gap there (it appears to be ~.25 seconds) is it worth trying to cancel master strike and save the small amount of time (or is there some mechanism that tracks if it was finished and doesn't apply the damage of the last strike if it was canceled)?

Edited July 31, 2012 by Xiij

[bionamaster]

I generally battle in this way: Force Leap, Overload Saber, Master Strike, Cauterize, Merciless Slash, *if Merciless finished the Cauterize CD, use it here. If not, fill in the blanks with some Strikes, Slashes, Zealous Strikes, whatever you see fit*. Whenever target drops below 30% Health, hit Dispatch whenever possible (without interrupting channeled abilities!). If you start taking heavy damage, hit Rebuke and Saber Ward. If you take extreme damage, hit Guarded by the Force, and if they're up, Rebuke and Ward. If it looks like you are really in for it, hit Inspiration. If you don't have the 30 stacks needed, hit Valorous Call.

[BlznSmri]

Nice priority list. I like the note about MS too. Two things:

First, could you link to your guide for other people who read this thread?

Second, why are 3 and 4 ordered that way (I'm sure you have a reason for doing so)?

 

Is building the extra stack of Merciless worth missing out on the chance of getting an extra cauterize in? Now that I say it like that, I guess I could see the potential bonus.

 

The Cauterize burn is pretty weak compared to the Overload saber burn (even at just two stacks) and Cauterize is mostly used for the Focus proc and crit heal. Merciless Slash does more damage than the initial Cauterize hit and the subsequent burn.

 

Also I can't link it because it's in the "Members only" section of my website, what I can do though is post the intro and Watchmen/ Combat sections of it. They're PvE only guides so I didn't cover Focus very much.

 

As an independent note about master strike: I know that (with no critical strikes or all critical strikes) the final (third) strike of master strike does the most damage (and ~50% of the total damage [rough estimate from "eyeballing it"]). Has anyone noticed that there is a small window of time between the final strike and when the channel ends? I can't tell if it's lag or something else. But, if there is a time gap there (it appears to be ~.25 seconds) is it worth trying to cancel master strike and save the small amount of time (or is there some mechanism that tracks if it was finished and doesn't apply the damage of the last strike if it was canceled)?

 

According to a guild member of mine you can cut it off at around .2 seconds remaining however every time I've tried has been for naught.

[Xiij]

The Cauterize burn is pretty weak compared to the Overload saber burn (even at just two stacks) and Cauterize is mostly used for the Focus proc and crit heal. Merciless Slash does more damage than the initial Cauterize hit and the subsequent burn.

 

Valid point, I might give this a spin.

 

Also I can't link it because it's in the "Members only" section of my website, what I can do though is post the intro and Watchmen/ Combat sections of it. They're PvE only guides so I didn't cover Focus very much.

 

Thanks for posting it, should help with people who have a question like the OP. BlznSmri's Watchman/Combat PvE Guide.

 

According to a guild member of mine you can cut it off at around .2 seconds remaining however every time I've tried has been for naught.

 

Yea, that's about what I had calculated, but wasn't sure if it was lag or not. I think I get it around 30% of the time if I'm really paying attention, but like I said, I wasn't sure if it was negating my damage or not (I guess I could get some combat logs and see).