VG/PT QQ vs Bad Players?

[KBSIP]

I'm sorry... are the maths too difficult? :|

 

I'm not whining, I'm simply countering a fundamentally flawed argument. There are two classes capable of dispelling it, no question, no need for debate. Is that really ridiculous territory? 1+1=2?

 

They can cleanse, if they happen to be one of those two classes, but they pay a price and thus will seldom do it. For a scoundrel / commando it'll be a DPS race and they won't have the time to spend the GCD/energy on a cleanse, unless they've somehow managed to LOS the 100% mobile Pyro with the slow debuff attached.

 

you seem to be delusional, pretty much everyone with a cleanse available in the game uses it religiously to clear DoT's and snares, especially healers. hell, the one time a thread was posted about cleanses pretty much every healer on there said its used as soon as its off cooldown.

[Bbizzle]

Exactly mate, Like someone said earlier, its a rock, paper, scissor system. There really isnt a Over Powered, Win All class. I have no idea why people make classes out to be so...

 

Exactly. A few people in this thread who are actually intelligent make good posts, I may only show 2 characters in my sig but I have 5 50's and what you notice as you change characters at 50 is that a guy who you can basically laughibly beat and nearly ignore on some classes, gives you trouble on others.

 

If people are crying because a pyro is guarded and has sick healing, guess who else would be ****** everything in sight with that? every dps class ever. Except probably mercs in arsenal.

 

Do you know why vans and pts get guarded and healed alot? because the support recognizes that thier burst can sway battles and that they have horrendous defense/escape. So they support them alot. <-- That is why we seem OP.

 

Plus alot of bad players just cry at what they dont understand. ALot of people just play one class and if a class is your bane they seem crazy OP to you, when in reality if you get multiple points of view you can see that the game is far more balanced than most games. Having played a ton of mmo's at this point, swg, aoc, aion, warhammer, wow, sto, dcuo, CoH, champs online, apb, the list goes on and on, there are far, far more OP things that have been in games than anything we see in swtor.

[TheGreatFrosty]

you seem to be delusional, pretty much everyone with a cleanse available in the game uses it religiously to clear DoT's and snares, especially healers. hell, the one time a thread was posted about cleanses pretty much every healer on there said its used as soon as its off cooldown.

 

Great news.

 

Now point to me where I mentioned a healer.

 

I'm talking about DPS v a DPS.

 

I play mostly healer, I have both a sage and a scoundrel to serve that purpose. My scoundrel healer will cleanse DOTs if there is time, but against a team of 2-3 Pyros there won't be time. The burst is too high and your GCD/energy is better served healing the damage being done, or rushing to use your Emergency medpack, rather than spamming a cleanse every CD.

 

EDIT : i don't even know why this is being discussed. Or why I'm participating in what is now sheer non-sense.

But you do realise the pyro will reapply the DOT in absolutely no time? That it is attached to their core move?

Edited July 18, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[KBSIP]

Great news.

 

Now point to me where I mentioned a healer.

 

I'm talking about DPS v a DPS.

 

I play mostly healer, I have both a sage and a scoundrel to serve that purpose. My scoundrel healer will cleanse DOTs if there is time, but against a team of 2-3 Pyros there won't be time. The burst is too high and your GCD/energy is better served healing the damage being done, or rushing to use your Emergency medpack, rather than spamming a cleanse every CD.

 

if you're up against 2-3 pyros you should have 1-2 other players with you at the time, either potentiall counter bursting, taunting, or guard/peeling, or cross healing and cleansing.

 

there seems to be this vacuum where people assume fights boil down to 2-3 v 1, and the other team mates the 1 has are off sucking thumbs.

[TheGreatFrosty]

if you're up against 2-3 pyros you should have 1-2 other players with you at the time, either potentiall counter bursting, taunting, or guard/peeling, or cross healing and cleansing.

 

there seems to be this vacuum where people assume fights boil down to 2-3 v 1, and the other team mates the 1 has are off sucking thumbs.

 

At no point did I assume that. Pyros reapply that DOT all the time. Let's say it is a 3v3, the healer will spend the time healing the burst being done, not pointlessly cleansing a DOT that can so frivolously be reapplied.

[KBSIP]

At no point did I assume that. Pyros reapply that DOT all the time. Let's say it is a 3v3, the healer will spend the time healing the burst being done, not pointlessly cleansing a DOT that can so frivolously be reapplied.

 

comes down to a judgment call, teamfights can be a manner of seconds. will your 1 heal buy more time then cleansing the DoT off the pyro's current target?

[TheGreatFrosty]

comes down to a judgment call, teamfights can be a manner of seconds. will your 1 heal buy more time then cleansing the DoT off the pyro's current target?

 

Of course it will. Any healer to say otherwise is a terrible healer. Three pyros constantly reapplying the same DOT, every 2-3 GCDs? (Max).

 

It's a DPS race, all PVP ATM in SWTOR is a race for burst. Your job is to keep your DPSers standing for long enough with as much healing as possible, so they can attempt to out DPS the pyros.

 

Burst DPS requires as much burst healing as can be done, 1 GCD is far too precious to spend on something that may mitigate 2k of damage (max) before it is reapplied.

 

EDIT: And this assumes they won't all be on the same target, which they will. In that case, you certainly wouldn't waste time with a cleanse. You'd burn everything you had.

Edited July 18, 2012 by TheGreatFrosty

[KBSIP]

Of course it will. Any healer to say otherwise is a terrible healer. Three pyros constantly reapplying the same DOT, every 2-3 GCDs? (Max).

 

It's a DPS race, all PVP ATM in SWTOR is a race for burst. Your job is to keep your DPSers standing for love enough with as much healing as possible, so they can attempt to out DPS the pyros.

 

Burst DPS requires as much burst healing as can be done, 1 GCD is far too precious to spend on something that may mitigate 2k of damage (max) before it is reapplied.

 

except if the DoT isn't there the railshot doesn't fire, the longer it takes the pyros the realize this the longer their burst is mitigated. your cleanse does MUCH more than remove the up to 2k DoT, it mitigates a potential 4k railshot, from multiple targets if they're relying on one person to apply the DoT. this adds up to a potential mitigation of up to 16k damage from ONE cleanse.

[TheGreatFrosty]

except if the DoT isn't there the railshot doesn't fire, the longer it takes the pyros the realize this the longer their burst is mitigated. your cleanse does MUCH more than remove the up to 2k DoT, it mitigates a potential 4k railshot, from multiple targets if they're relying on one person to apply the DoT. this adds up to a potential mitigation of up to 16k damage from ONE cleanse.

 

This is so utterly void of logic, on so many levels. It doesn't mitigate railshot. It just doesn't permit the same proc. And as above, the DOT is simply reapplied.

 

All targets will likely be attacking the same individual. Unless my server comprises a whole different type of PVP, where secular fights emerge from a group encounter.

[SajPl]

Heavy Armor

Good ranged DPS

Great melee DPS

Can do his/her damage on the run

 

Give those damn sentinels heavy armor already (no tank stance ofc, since pyro are not in tank stance) and leave them only saber ward as a defensive cooldown. Heavy armor is 5% better then medium. In pvp defensive cooldowns rule.

[KBSIP]

This is so utterly void of logic, on so many levels. It doesn't mitigate railshot. It just doesn't permit the same proc. And as above, the DOT is simply reapplied.

 

All targets will likely be attacking the same individual. Unless my server comprises a whole different type of PVP, where secular fights emerge from a group encounter.

 

how do you define mitigation? I define it as prevention. you remove the DoT and prevent the railshot until a DoT is reapplied. in an opener the DoT won't be reapplied until after they waste a rocket punch and can't use the proc. a co-ordinated group of pyros maximizing DPS will not all by reapplying the DoT while rocket punch is up when they can rely on one periodic effect to enable focused railshots. this is an area to use cleanse to exploit a gap in strategy. railshot isn't one of those magic abilities that you pop off as soon as its ready, it requires a periodic effect. if there is no perdiodic effect, you have to spend the resources and GCD to reapply it. with two cleanses or classes with off cleanses working in tandem, this can rapidly burn most of the pyro's resources.

[TheGreatFrosty]

how do you define mitigation? I define it as prevention. you remove the DoT and prevent the railshot until a DoT is reapplied. in an opener the DoT won't be reapplied until after they waste a rocket punch and can't use the proc. a co-ordinated group of pyros maximizing DPS will not all by reapplying the DoT while rocket punch is up when they can rely on one periodic effect to enable focused railshots. this is an area to use cleanse to exploit a gap in strategy. railshot isn't one of those magic abilities that you pop off as soon as its ready, it requires a periodic effect. if there is no perdiodic effect, you have to spend the resources and GCD to reapply it. with two cleanses or classes with off cleanses working in tandem, this can rapidly burn most of the pyro's resources.

 

You stop the railshot if no other DOT is present. For a time. I still completely disagree that this will do anything for you, as PVP is group combat and not 1 v 1. On a 1v1 my scoundrel healer doesn't die to a PT for the above reasons.

 

However, in a group situation DOTs are thrown around everywhere, and should, as with our hypothetical scenario, there be more than one powertech, you're in trouble with timing your cleanse to the rotations of multiple pyrotechs who can so easily reapply the DOT.

 

This is all only the case, of course, if you're a scoundrel or commando, if you're anything else you're in trouble as the only facility to remove the DOT will be with Shadow resilience or the unlikely scenario of a healer constantly having a cleanse CD saved just for you.

 

Let's simply agree on this. It isn't useless, my reply was to a poster who tried to advocate that it was near useless. It simply and absolutely is not. Even if it makes you use a GCD, it is far from being useless, especially since it is attached to a move which does very respectable damage, and doesn't strain the PT to apply it.