Forgon Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I think it is no secret that Lightning gets both ends of the stick when a major patch comes by. On the one hand, we barely get hit in the patch notes. On the other hand, we barely get hit with the patch notes. A lot of hybrid builds with Lightning do exist but Bioware does not like hybrid heavy specs. Clearly, since Sorcerer's are currently getting the best of Lightning and and discarding the rest for Madness, there is a problem. With this thread, we can maybe gather our ideas and suggestions of how to improve Lighting spec. I am not the most knowledgeable player or the best for his opinion but that is why I think getting a lot of Sorcerer's in the community to pitch in would be positive to get different angles on what should or should not be done to Lightning Sorcerers. Here are my suggestions: I find the spec to be a hit or miss type of spec. When you get into that magical position, where you are team is being the full distraction and no one is even bothering to look toward your direction, Lighting does extremely well and can win games. Unfortunately, our squishiness combined with our lack of maneuverability can make the above scenario be a miracle in its own right. More often then not, it only takes one player to see us and then our DPS is effectively shut down. We are forced in place, suffer cast times that can be interrupted, if we try to run we are useless to the team, we are a quick kill, and have some lackluster abilities. In essence, I think moves like Shock need to proc Chain Lighting, even if it is just a 10-30% chance, to help with the maneuverability issue. Another great idea to help this class out is to allow some of are moves be able to have cast times on the move, such as Lightning Shock. Our LS is already a filler in our rotation so having it on the go would help at least keep up a minimial DPS in PVP and PVE. Thundering Blast is really just a pain for a final ability. For such a long cast time, no amount of alacrity makes up for its underwhelming damage even after that crit from Affliction. A small boost to its base damage to help with its overall damage in the rotation would help Lightning actually get some worthwhile burst before getting shutdown by that Sage seeing you hiding over there in the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 LS being either castable on the move or instacast is a VERY common suggestion. Unfortunately, it's also patently impossible, as that's our filler ability. It would make us way way TOO mobile, as the only things we'd have to stand still to cast would be TB, FL, and CD. It would also be a DPS nerf if they made it instacast, as LS would no longer scale with Alacrity at all. What would be better, in my opinion, would be making TB instacast. This would be a slight DPS boost, as well as a bit of a mobility increase. I also like your idea of allowing Shock to trigger Lightning Storm, that's one I hadn't seen before. Another option that would improve flow and mobility for both would be to make CD instacast baseline and boost it's damage by 20%, then buff LS's base damage by ~10% and cut it's Force cost to 15-20, and boost Wrath's damage bonus to 30-35%. This would boost mobility and DPS for both specs without getting out of control, and would actually balance out the specs a bit more as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureeffinmetal Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Instant TB and/or adding Lightning Strike to Reverberating Force are my two wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 LS being either castable on the move or instacast is a VERY common suggestion. Unfortunately, it's also patently impossible, as that's our filler ability. It would make us way way TOO mobile, as the only things we'd have to stand still to cast would be TB, FL, and CD. It would also be a DPS nerf if they made it instacast, as LS would no longer scale with Alacrity at all. What would be better, in my opinion, would be making TB instacast. This would be a slight DPS boost, as well as a bit of a mobility increase. I also like your idea of allowing Shock to trigger Lightning Storm, that's one I hadn't seen before. Another option that would improve flow and mobility for both would be to make CD instacast baseline and boost it's damage by 20%, then buff LS's base damage by ~10% and cut it's Force cost to 15-20, and boost Wrath's damage bonus to 30-35%. This would boost mobility and DPS for both specs without getting out of control, and would actually balance out the specs a bit more as well. I like a lot of your suggestions. However, I am going to disagree with LS being mobile breaking the class. It will still have its cast time which still takes time, also, any class focusing us would still suffer pushback and possible interrupts. We would only have access to Shock, Affliction, and LS (which would still have its cast timer). As a result, if Thundering Blast was given a small buff to its base damage and made a bit more worthwhile, it would be a real shame to have that blocked off while on the go. We would need to rely on Shock to possibly give us CL for a small burst. Plus the fact we can still suffer CC and roots would hinder us more. The only dynamic that would change would be how we use our CC to keep players away but actually do a little damage while making some distance, followed by getting CC'd and that distance being closed in so it makes little pay off. Imo, it would be no different than other range classes who basically have their basic blaster shot ability to shoot on the move, only ours is a small burst over a larger timeframe. I have no doubt a few other changes would need to be made to LS damage wise or a few of our other Passive abilities but I think a small sacrifice to damage for some maneuverability will help stabilize our DPS to be about the same but with an actual fighting chance when we that random Sentinel Force leaps at us to get out of there alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Well, it might stabilize it in PvP. A DPS nerf for mobility isn't really needed in PvE, though, and would sincerely hurt the class there (since Lightning is the top spec atm). Honestly, I think I'd rather see a Spiritwalker's Grace effect added instead (perhaps as our new 46 ability). If you don't know the term (it's an ability from the WoW Shaman, which Lightning is based upon), it's a 2-minute cooldown ability that allows all spells to be cast on the move for 15 seconds, and it is unique in that it can be triggered while another spell is already in mid-cast without interrupting that cast. It's an extremely solid ability for enhancing the mobility of both DPS and healing shaman in WoW, and I could see it being beneficial here (it was added to Shamans because they, like Sorcs, were very immobile and turrety). On the note of the blaster shots, though, do note that most of those abilities do a LOT less damage than even our Lightning Strike. Edited July 16, 2012 by Daellia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Sounds like a good idea, may be why we are seeing these feedback threads; BW may be trying to gather player feedback as they begin solidifying their plans to add new abilities with the level cap. However, while I agree with what you say in PVE, as I do not play exclusively to one side or the other, I still believe maneuverability is important to some aspects of both PVP and PVE gameplay. Some boss encounters and (rarely) some trash mobs require you to move. A lot of range classes are fine as most have several abilities to use while moving and melee classes usually need to move to keep up with the boss or trash anyway (Where usually there is no danger zone or only requires them to circle the boss). In contrast, we get Shock and Affliction, neither of which is very helpful when Mentor is firing down his rockets or HK-47 has a laser homing in on you. I am no good with the math required to calculate and have no insiders peek to BW's metrics to even begin to have an idea of how it is supposed to look. I am just throwing out the ideas and if they are possible and beneficial, do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithterror Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Would Reverbrating Force additionally cutting .1 second of of LS, CL and TB be a worthwhile change or would that not be enough to make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pureeffinmetal Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Would Reverbrating Force additionally cutting .1 second of of LS, CL and TB be a worthwhile change or would that not be enough to make a difference? That would be a 33% increase to the DPS of LS and a 25% increase to TB's DPS. Pretty significant. Assuming you mean .1 second per point. Edited July 17, 2012 by pureeffinmetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 That would be a 33% increase to the DPS of LS and a 25% increase to TB's DPS. Pretty significant. Assuming you mean .1 second per point. Wow, 0.1 seconds per point would be absurd. That'd cut a massive portion of the cast time off each, and boost the spec's DPS by ridiculous margins (probably in the 25-30% range). We're more likely to see TB instant and/or LS castable on the move, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Wow, 0.1 seconds per point would be absurd. That'd cut a massive portion of the cast time off each, and boost the spec's DPS by ridiculous margins (probably in the 25-30% range). We're more likely to see TB instant and/or LS castable on the move, I think. What if it was .02 for .1 when fully implemented? I am assuming the damage boost would be closer to the 5-10% range for an increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) What if it was .02 for .1 when fully implemented? I am assuming the damage boost would be closer to the 5-10% range for an increase. That would be a bit better, though I suspect most of the community would consider it worthless (despite the fact that it would be worth about 2% Alacrity per point). Honestly, what would probably work better is to add a 2/4/6% Alacrity bonus to Electric Induction or another T1 skill. Similar effect, more likely to be viewed favorably, and doesn't abnormally inflate only one spec. Edited July 17, 2012 by Daellia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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