Hardwear Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 You've given me no reason to think it wouldn't other then you fear that the content wouldn't come out at a four month pace as it has. Don't mistake my purpose I never intended to disuade you from your f2p philosophy, but the lack of content the f2p model would bring is just one aspect of a long list of things I hate about the f2p model based on what I've seen of it. My arguments to you is that the content that's come out so far isn't worth $60 each update Explain $60 each update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Explain $60 each update? Well the current model as i was lead to understand it is your paying for content as they release it, right now every four months they've released a major patch which includes warzones, gear, flashpoints, and ops... $15 a month over four months is $60, so every patch of new new content your paying $60 Your fears about, lag in content release is warranted, however if implemented correctly, could mean more updates sooner, and better content because rather then having (I've read somewhere that the current subscriber base is between 700k and 800k) you now can bring in the casual crowd to those updates without them feeling they need to pay for a subscription. The reason I like this, is that the success of this method is dependent on the quality of the updates, if the quality isn't there, people simply wont purchase it. The developer also can react and change their content release based on the dollar signs of each update. This method makes the developer more accountable for what they release. For example the server transfers would have happen a lot sooner had this method been in place Edited July 16, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporin Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Full set of BH gear for $20... Waaaay better than $60 worth of subs & wasted time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblongship Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 More sky is falling speculation...it is amazing to me the amount of people who pay for MMO's not to play the game but to doom cry on the forums. Yep dropping over 100 servers is always a great sign! How dare people think something is wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yep dropping over 100 servers is always a great sign! How dare people think something is wrong! I wish they had a like or a thumbs up button somewhere, because This gave me a laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardwear Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Well the current model as i was lead to understand it is your paying for content as they release it, right now every four months they've released a major patch which includes warzones, gear, flashpoints, and ops... $15 a month over four months is $60, so every patch of new new content your paying You know when you break it down like this I never thought of it this way. ...possibly because I'm having fun and not concerned with the $60 I would pay over four months playing ToR that I would blow on drinks in under two hours in a bar My personal opinion is that you pay for bits and peices of f2p model games, because so much of it tends to suck it probably is better to focus where your money goes. Edited July 16, 2012 by Hardwear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyDarkkitten Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Free level 50 Pt? $100 full set of augmented wh gear for it? £50 Pawning poor nubs without my bank balance in the wzs? priceless. Theres a reason evony and mafia wars are so popular and why they turn over players so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) You know when you break it down like this I never thought of it this way. ...possibly because I'm having fun and not concerned with the $60 I would pay over four months playing ToR that I would blow on drinks in under two hours in a bar My personal opinion is that you pay for bits and peices of f2p model games, because so much of it tends to suck it probably is better to focus your money. I haven't played it since it went F2P, but I read that DCUO uses this model, and the content that's released is purchased this way. There was an article about how you can still purchase a subscription and you get the updates as soon as there released, but you can also just purchase the updates if your interested in playing the DLC but the two methods are identical in gameplay, On a further note the content is released at a more reasonable price tag of $9 As of right now $60 can pretty much get me every game here http://store.steampowered.com/ Edited July 16, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 u dont close servers full stop unless no1 is there to play/pay look at WoW dead servers still open merge of servers = dying game in the eyes of most ppl why u dont see blizz do it Listen...times have changed. Accept it. I'll bet you anything wow servers don't even have a max population cap of even 4000. That's why they have so many servers. BTW...nobody cares about WoW. It's over. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Urtani Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read somewhere that there is an average of 53K people who log on daily. And the total subs is somewhere between 80-600K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 So right now, TOR have 12 American servers 12 European servers 3 Asian servers The fabled ''minimum amount of subs'' is, rememebr, 500k users. Spread on 25 servers, this means 20 000 users per server. According to ressearch on the matter, the people currently online on a server are between 5% and 10% of the total pop of a given server. This means that it would require between 1000 and 2000 concurrent users. On the current servers, we certainly have this figure. By far. But if there is another crisis.... Boy ur ubsurdity is way off it was 1.2million ppl just last month. geez ppl have no brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettrikRyflix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Since the server merge, I haven't seen a decline in population. The Fatman server seems to be holding steady right now. Multiple instances of the fleet, and PvP queues popping within 30 seconds. IMO, the pre-transfer crisis was the last straw for the players not really sold on the game. Anyone who is still with the game obviously likes something about it - enough to withstand the low pops, or re-sub afterwards - and isn't in a huge hurry to leave. As for the $60 per update comment, I do not agree. If you're just logging in to try new content once through, then you're not exactly suited well to MMO gameplay. Go spend your money on single player console games instead. MMOs are all about improving your skills, working as a team, and having fun while doing it. It's almost like a sport when you get down to it. New content freshens things up, but it shouldn't be the main goal. The $15 per month is mostly spent on server upkeep and such, and some of it goes into upgrades. It's like renting a hockey rink. Some of the rent money goes into arena upgrades, but most goes into arena maintenance. If your objective is to play the sport of hockey, you'll be satisfied with your purchase. If you keep renting the rink just to see if they've renovated the foyer or added benches to the locker room, you'll only be satisfied once every four months or so, and be complaining the rest of the time. That's my view, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomnio Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Not enough content. After 1.3, which housed no new playable content, we now wait 4 more months for (hopefully) some new environments to explore. That is a significant wait, 8 months for some new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I wish the the F2P campaigners would go play an F2P game instead of trying to ruin this one. ^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Since the server merge, I haven't seen a decline in population. The Fatman server seems to be holding steady right now. Multiple instances of the fleet, and PvP queues popping within 30 seconds. Your in the fatman, it has been the top 5% of server populations since launch, people from dwindling servers migrated to that server because they had no one to play with. You'd have no idea what I'm talking about and you've been insulated from the dead servers and haven't seen your entire guild leave the game. IMO, the pre-transfer crisis was the last straw for the players not really sold on the game. Anyone who is still with the game obviously likes something about it - enough to withstand the low pops, or re-sub afterwards - and isn't in a huge hurry to leave. As per last straw for people not sold... You'd have no idea what playing in a dead servers like and that gets old, so you leave, when you do they're is no pull to come back, you've already found something newer and better As for the $60 per update comment, I do not agree. If you're just logging in to try new content once through, then you're not exactly suited well to MMO gameplay. Go spend your money on single player console games instead. MMOs are all about improving your skills, working as a team, and having fun while doing it. It's almost like a sport when you get down to it. New content freshens things up, but it shouldn't be the main goal. The $15 per month is mostly spent on server upkeep and such, and some of it goes into upgrades. As per the $60 comment, I stand by it, refining your skill is fine but that's what you pay for the boxed item for, subscriptions are for additional content, you don't see people paying to play FPS. And upkeep? what upkeep? All games get patched MMO's are not any special. And as per your comment i should go get another game, done and done, its the steam summer sale, I think I'll go get a bunch of games for $60 Edited July 16, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 A good portion of it are paid astroturfers...all I know is I had a queue on Ebon Hawk this morning and my guild has picked up twenty people in the past two weeks. Yeah real signs of doom People were saying that exact same thnig right before the 1.3m announcement. Personally I'd imagine things have steadied, but still I'll be amazed if the next subs call gives number over 1m. (that's not "doom-calling" whatever that is supposed to be, it's realism). However if they improve SWTOR (JLS expansion, more levelling content, more sandy features) there's no reason those subs couldn't start growing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read somewhere that there is an average of 53K people who log on daily. And the total subs is somewhere between 80-600K. Yeah that would have been about right pre-server merge and using standard MMORPG conversion rates. However SWTOR has consistantly retained more subs than the server activity would traditionally show. So it's really impossible to tell until the next sbus announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) However SWTOR has consistantly retained more subs than the server activity would traditionally show. So it's really impossible to tell until the next sbus announcement. I really doubt the number you'd get from EA is accurate, the numbers they tend to give are highly inflated, I bet its around 700k-500k Edited July 16, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I really doubt the number you'd get from EA is accurate, the numbers they tend to give are highly inflated, I bet its around 700k-500k Yeah subs numbers are active accounts, which is never the same thing as actively played accounts (and in the first few months of an MMORPG can this be a massively different figure). But still it's the most accurate measure we have as players to the games population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Yeah subs numbers are active accounts, which is never the same thing as actively played accounts (and in the first few months of an MMORPG can this be a massively different figure). But still it's the most accurate measure we have as players to the games population. It's so disappointing because this game was hyped and had the potential to be a wow killer, but BW didn't do anything special and dumb down the mechanics to the point where it became too easy. people asked for end game content and they gave us legacy... basically telling us "go play it again." People asked for server transfers when there was still healthy populations and they gave it to us when the servers were dead. Edited July 16, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) - SNIP - . The irony of this is you will experience less updates/content in a model that generates money based on mirotransactions and x pacs.... I totally disagree with ya here.... every MMO I have played that has taken on a F2P model over the last few years has seen a vibrant increase in content updates... DOO, LoTRO being good examples of this (I remember the days of waiting 9 -12+ months for updates in DDO... now its a regualr 3month dose of decent content upgrades, regular maintenance and bug fixing). GW (not directly F2P by the fact you have to purchase the game) works its magic from a cashshop model and has done well over so many years... so I think you may wanna take a closer look at some of the benefits F2P brings in because revenue streams for thos MMO's or such have seen healthy increases since revising business models. On the contrary if this game ever goes full f2p you will see a huge exodus and it will become just like every other mediocre f2p game out there.... Again I disagree, most F2P games see increases in gaming pops why.. cos we all like a bargain.. and there is always a large populus of younger players with mum and dads credit card burning a hole in their pockets. And the casual gamer pop is generally more liken to an opt in / opt out gaming model.. Hardcore players burn through content and end up unsubbing until new content hits so you get sub spiking.. with F2P and more regualr content updates, this actually helps Hardcore players stay in game longer (not indefinate but longer) Don't hold youe breath waiting for ToR to go full f2p. The only downside I have seen when F2P models are incorporated is the quality of the playerbase can nose dive, with many more of our young populus hitting the keyboards because the game becomes more accessable.... but I would rather have a population than what we have been suffering in SWTOR for sometime now. Yes it feels busier now because the lower overall game pop has been hived into alot less servers (which was done well and was definately needed I must add - and I was pleasnatly suprised how well it was done).. but that does not yet prove that the game is still in decline or stabilised or even grown.... only BW / EA know that and their next earnings call will maybe shed some light on that. But I would not be to unhappy to see it go F2P (just not Buy2Win)... and I hasten to add I have never taken the F2P option in any game, I have always been a subs based player. Edited July 16, 2012 by Bloodstealer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpienne Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I read somewhere that there is an average of 53K people who log on daily. And the total subs is somewhere between 80-600K. Links or it didn't happen. "Read somewhere" doesn't cut it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Links or it didn't happen. "Read somewhere" doesn't cut it. :-) There was a HUGE thread on it, it's as accurate as anything players can calculate will ever get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxeh Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 We're just gonna have to wait til the next earnings call until we're gonna find out, but I'd be inclined to say that this game's population isn't going to increase anytime soon. Like others have said, best estimates put it at 53k concurrent users which for a AAA MMO is terrible. And let's be honest, it's not going to get any better. They released what was essentially still a beta, so the nearly 2 million people that bought the game at or close to launch will have had their judgement tainted by the experience of that, and most of the gaming news sites have been slating SWTOR for months so their PR machine has to be working overtime to try and keep a somewhat respectable number of people playing. There is some serious competition being launched in the MMO market in the next few months, with Guild Wars 2 and Mists of Pandaria being released, and to a lesser extent The Secret World which was just opened up (but that's still EA so it's not THAT bad). I know personally I will be dropping SWTOR when these games come out, and I'm not alone. I don't want to see SWTOR die, but I feel like it's kind of inevitable if they don't do something drastic. ( I made a video about what I feel SWTOR needs to survive, it's in my signature so feel free to check it out if you like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If you think f2p is a good idea because of LOTRO you are wrong. That game puts the store in your face everytime you turn around. Everytime you look at your traits the store pops up offering you traits for cash. They have "apparel dummies" now in the cities that sparkle like a twilight vampire and if you click on it then it pops up the store again because of course these are store exclusives. The new add-on "legendary edition" which is like a CE has no box and it costs $80. There has been reduced content delivery and what we do get is way smaller than it used to be. I remember when they did free updates and they were massive. I am honestly expecting pepsi and coke ads on our armor within a year or so. I pray swtor never ends up like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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