4 combat class's / 4 social class's

[HolyMamamia]

Rebels? Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? There are no Rebels here.

 

 

Here's my immediate issues

How do you make 50 levels of "social" interesting?

 

How do you make a dedicated crafting class while at the same time not stealling all of the crafting that current characters already have, and thus alienating them?

 

How do you create a class story that spans 50 levels for any of these classes? I can't remember the last time I saw a "decent" movie or story about dancing or dancers. I can't reasonably expect that the first story to peak my interest in the dancing arts to come from an MMO.

 

What are the REAL differences between the Republic and the Sith versions of these classes? they may be mirriors of each other but they do have certain distinctions in both their abilities and appearances. Even though Troopers and Bounty Hunters are mirrors, you don't see Troopers with flame throwers, as an example.

 

As I pointed out before, The Old Republic is a war-game. All the characters are major pieces in the Total War approach between the two galactic forces, and all of the content in this game is driven by that. In that kind of environment, when the other characters are chasing down traitors, or killing the Emporer, and so on, making a character that does nothing but DANCE just doesn't fit.

 

Class missions for entertainers could have "max reebo"ish , Legendary musicians inventors and builders. Could implement history about how the Sith temple was created. They made up story characters already, I feel confident they could create interesting social leaders/legends

 

You don't like entertaining I offer you Engineer or Architect (or the 4th one which I still need community help on).

 

In war: entertainers have always been there to support troops and Imperial and the Republic would have done that. All those socials classes can be used in a time of war.

 

I don't have all the answer's and idea's come and go. Thank you everyone for reading, asking questions and contributing idea's :-)

[HolyMamamia]

what other reason than "i don't want it" do i need? i played swg, and didn't ike it. plain and simple.

 

again, leave that crap with swg, where it belongs

 

please tell me more then that? can you explain why you believe it was crap?

 

not trying to turn this into swg, starting momentum to get some type of non-combat class involved in this game.

Edited July 14, 2012 by HolyMamamia

[Listerman]

please tell me more then that? can you explain why you believe it was crap?

 

I wouldn't call it crap...But it is very...

...

I don't want to say it's underwhelming...And I'm saying "It's" instead of "Was" because I AM actively playing Galaxies on the Emulator.

It's definitely an acquired taste.

[HolyMamamia]

I wouldn't call it crap...But it is very...

...

I don't want to say it's underwhelming...And I'm saying "It's" instead of "Was" because I AM actively playing Galaxies on the Emulator.

It's definitely an acquired taste.

 

sorry i just edited my above post, swg certainly has its downfall. This game can adapt on some of the good and just strike a home-run.

 

Any game can start a social class and it would be a big hit, if its will interrogated with the combat classes. None would be as expansive and thrilling as SW.

 

Unfortunately I can't think of any game that's even looking at a Social Class. This game has the format and the plot, I know this would require allot of work but that's why we pay monthly.

 

Very obviously the game has underachieved and facing stiff competition. Offering something that no other game offers to gamers is a start to bring people back.

[Listerman]

sorry i just edited my above post, swg certainly has its downfall. This game can adapt on some of the good and just strike a home-run.

 

Any game can start a social class and it would be a big hit, if its will interrogated with the combat classes. None would be as expansive and thrilling as SW.

 

Unfortunately I can't think of any game that's even looking at a Social Class. This game has the format and the plot, I know this would require allot of work but that's why we pay monthly.

 

Very obviously the game has underachieved and facing stiff competition. Offering something that no other game offers to gamers is a start to bring people back.

 

The two games can certainly stand to intermingle in some regards.

The crafting for example. I DO kinda dig being a Trandoshan Pistoleer/Moonshiner.

[Darth_Halford]

Class missions for entertainers could have "max reebo"ish

which did absolutly nothing. They could have been entirely absent from the movie and Return of the Jedi would have been the exact same as it is now.

Could implement history about how the Sith temple was created

Which can be done in a simple Lore Object, or a Class Quest for either of the Sith classes. The Sith Temple is already built, so there's nothing you can really "do" with it, except learn huge ammounts of backstory which are equally available for the other classes.

 

They made up story characters already, I feel confident they could create interesting social leaders/legends

your confidence is your undoing here. Yes they've made alot of story characters, that fit exactly into the story that we have in a galactic war between the Republic and the Empire. Every character you meet, every quest you do, is either to support the war effort directly, or to support someone else who is.

As a crafter or a dancer, you've removed yourself entirely from that.

 

You don't like entertaining I offer you Engineer or Architect (or the 4th one which I still need community help on).

I don't like any of the ideas, because there is nothing to keep anyone interested beyond the first level.

What do you do as a level 1 dancer? /dance, give out buffs, get credits.

What do you do as a level 50 dancer? /dance, give out buffs, get credits.

it's the exact same for the entire progression of your class. Not like the other classes where you have a niche role and you gain different abilities that do more-or-less the same thing. Dancing, or crafting, or any other social class, you are doing one thing, and one thing only.

 

More importantly, I can already craft with any and all of the characters that are already present, why in God's name would I want to make a character that ONLY crafts?

Equally important, is to make a dedicated crafting class, how do you square that against all of the other crafting skills the other players have? Simply put, you can't. Either the crafting class is completly redundant because everyone else can already craft to their hearts content, or you rob the crafting skills from everyone else and give it to the dedicated crafter, which is going to infuriate everyone who doesn't want to play a dedicated crafter (which is going to be the overwhelming majority)

In war: entertainers have always been there to support troops and Imperial and the Republic would have done that. All those socials classes can be used in a time of war.

But you can't make 50 levels based on that. You can't make an engaging story on that.

Show me any story that is actually based on the war entertainers, or any historical figure who only entertained for the benefit of the troops. In any conflict, sure there may be agencies like the USO who get entertainers for the military, but that's usually one show and than they're back to being civilian entertainers. You also have military bands, but they only perform at official ceremonies. In the high-tech fantasy of Star Wars, dedicated military bands are completly unnecesary, the music could (and is) played either via digital recording or live by droids.

 

In movies where they war entertainers are featured, like Capt. America or Apocalypse Now or even Flags of Our Fathers, the entertaining portion is a minor footnote in the overarching narrative. The actual story is the war. All story is about conflict in some manner, and the social classes that you are proposing are completly devoid of any meaningful conflict.

 

What's the dancer's conflict? Oh no,some local tramp is stealing away all my clients... The Crafter? Damn, i've run out of materials to make this gun, i've gotta go farm more. There is nothing there.

[Darth_Halford]

Any game can start a social class and it would be a big hit, if its will interrogated with the combat classes. None would be as expansive and thrilling as SW.

That's nonsense. To think that you can just add anything old thing to any old game, and it can turn out okay if you do it well is just naive.

In a development stage, before the game has any code programmed, there may be some larger room for options, but you can't just tack on different ideas like plugs into an extension cord and think it's going to run.

 

Unfortunately I can't think of any game that's even looking at a Social Class. This game has the format and the plot, I know this would require allot of work but that's why we pay monthly.

There's a reason for that, and it's the same reasont that no AAA company makes sandbox mmo's anymore. Nobody is interested in them anymore.

 

Offering something that no other game offers to gamers is a start to bring people back.

Being the first and only MMO to have fully voiced characters and completly developed stories for each class is definatly something that no other game can offer. We don't need to go scrounging through one of the biggest flops in MMO history. We just need to make what we're already doing better.

[Pytviper]

1st off I played SWG and loved the game and have a lot of good memories of it. People need to let it R.I.P. What you want is BW to waste a lot of time and resource in creating something that every few people are going to enjoy.

 

Your idea for dancer isn’t a social class but a support class. Yes you would get a much bigger following for a support class then social class. Increasing party size and offer a couple class that offer buffs and debuffs to party fits a lot better than a social dancer that stand in a cantina dancing for 4 hours a night forcing people to go there waste time in between WZ or OP boss to get the buff.

 

In order to make your crafting class you are going to have completely revamp crafting. By doing so you wasted all my time level all crew skill to 400. BY revamping I mean tripling the amount of mats out there and the number schematic out at least.

 

Yeah housing would be cool but not like that worthless system in SWG. Place a house where ever you want and have mobs spawn in your house. Instance housing would be the easy way to go and not creating a billion more bugs. There was nothing more annoying that heading to a mission spot and having my mobs I need to kill inside someone house.

 

R.I.P SWG

[Shingara]

Except for the fact that they were bleeding thousands of customers every week, and that if they didn't make a change it would have been impossible for the game to ever be profitable. Oh ya, and that it was actually his higher-ups that said "update the entire game for this new marketing push we've been planning"

 

So in a "total war" scenario, which is absolutly what The Old Republic is, you want to make characters that have nothing to do with it?

Well, say goodbye to any of the flashpoints or the warzones. Say goodbye to any of the quests that are out there. Say goodbye to the Fleets.

Everything that any character does in this game is attached at the hip to the fact that the Republic and the Sith are at war. That you would presume with a straight face that you can make not only a new faction of classes that flies in complete and utter disregard of that and still keep the game's look and feel is beyond me. And even if it's not tied to faction, there's still the question of how do you make 50 levels worth of content for it, and how do you create a narrative for it? If it was another combatant class all you would need to do is come up with new class quests, but this is a whole other ballgame.

Plus how do you take all of the companion crafting skills that the players have been working on the for the past 8 months to learn and than give it to a new dedicated class and not hurt the players feelings? No matter what, it's going to feel like theft and wasted time. The only way (that I can see) getting around this is to leave the crafting companion skills as they are, but doing that defeats the whole entire point. Why make a class (or even 2) that does nothing but craft when I can play any other character that I already have and do the same thing? or for new players, why would I pick a crafting only-class when I can pick any of the other classes that does crafting plus either using the force or shooting big guns?

 

What your proposing is exactly the same as the NGE, and to say otherwhise is an absolute delusion.

 

What I think is the most funny is that you're taking what is arguably the most boring content out the most boring game and trying to sell it off as a winning strategy.

Nobody has EVER said that playing a dancer was FUN. It may have given good buffs, but that's entirely different. More specifically, I think your previous assertion that the 300,000 players that used to play SWG will come to this game, plus more, just for the ability to /dance and give people buffs is laughably illogical.

Nowhere are the actually potentially interesting parts of SWG being mentioned (player housing, a more in-depth space sim, etc). To think that every single SWG player is going to magically come and subscribe to a themepark game with 4 boring noncombatant classes and nothing else, is completly foolish.

 

Well first things 1st you dont even realise there was a combat upgrade in swg that removed the need for entertainers and other class's as there main role was buffs with the prime role to equip composite armour but majorly removing fatigue, it also made becoming a jedi a force grind instead of a new char gained through holocron unlocks. Thats when people started to leave and the NGE new game engine was put in because they hashed up the 32 class system up so bad and they couldnt balance it they decided to just try and make it full themepark.

 

And MMO's are more then smacking people in the face with a big sword or sparkles coming out of your fingers, people do actualy enjoy roleplaying. Social class's are just an extention of that. They dont need combat trees because they would primerily be alts for the vast majority of people, even for the ones who they are the main of they would chose that class knowing they wernt combat orientated.

 

For protection they can rely on there companions to look after them but they would have no need to go into dangerous areas in the 1st place. And if they are faction neutral they would all start in the same place, have no role in the war and would have no balance effect world pvp and have no role in pve, they could level via social quests like etertaining hutts and players and space in a ship designed for them and just be given companions at set levels with no class missions.

 

The fleets would survive, the factions would survive and nothing would implode. And the crafting that they do could be a limited crafting specifically for them. If they can craft and reverse engineer social armour aka adaptive armour and offer buffs that work the same way as a stim and adrenal they have a role in the game.

 

And the key thing here your stating is you dont want them so no one else should have them, you dont enjoy the idea of just being an entertainer or social class so no one should enjoy dancing or playing music in the sw universe. Well im sorry to say this but just because you dont like it or want it shouldnt allow you to dictate what others will like or enjoy. And what is in this topic is not wanting the nge, its the polar opposite and this isnt about scrounging ideas from flops, its part of the mmo genre that would enhance swtor but you shall never understand that.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Shingara

[Gruug]

Without doing a lot of revision to the existing game, I just don't see how any of it could work. Just the idea of removing the "healing class" would require some MAJOR rebalancing of the game. Could anyone imagine doing SOA without a "healer"?

 

I do have to agree with those that have said "this is not SWG". It is not.

 

Instead of trying to totally revisit the game design, why don't you suggest things that could be added without removing the essentials.

[Darth_Halford]

Well first things 1st you dont even realise there was a combat upgrade in swg that removed the need for entertainers and other class's as there main role was buffs with the prime role to equip composite armour but majorly removing fatigue, it also made becoming a jedi a force grind instead of a new char gained through holocron unlocks. Thats when people started to leave and the NGE new game engine was put in because they hashed up the 32 class system up so bad and they couldnt balance it they decided to just try and make it full themepark.

Actually from a historical perspective it was sooner than that. Jump to Lighstpeed was a net loss: more customers left when it came out than the expansion brought in.

I'm well are of the CU and the NGE and all of that nonsense, It's just completly irrelevant. It was a bad game from the start, and I say again, if the game was actually anywhere as good as you want me to believe than they wouldn't have had to redefine what the game was supposed to be 3 times.

 

And MMO's are more then smacking people in the face with a big sword or sparkles coming out of your fingers, people do actualy enjoy roleplaying. Social class's are just an extention of that. They dont need combat trees because they would primerily be alts for the vast majority of people, even for the ones who they are the main of they would chose that class knowing they wernt combat orientated.

That's also completly unnecessary, as you can roleplay with any of the other 8 classes that are readily availble.

So the idea here is to make noncombatant classes:

They can't engage in combat

They can only do either crafting or dancing (both which any other character do)

Their main appeal is for roleplaying (which any other character can do)

They're meant to be an alt character....

This idea is wholly and utterly redundant and vacuous.

 

For protection they can rely on there companions to look after them but they would have no need to go into dangerous areas in the 1st place. And if they are faction neutral they would all start in the same place, have no role in the war and would have no balance effect world pvp and have no role in pve, they could level via social quests like etertaining hutts and players and space in a ship designed for them and just be given companions at set levels with no class missions.

Again, you really think that in a game of Total War, where every single civilization is a potential target, every planet is a battlefield, and every character is a soldier, that you can create a completly nuetral class, that does NOTHING?

No class missions? So in a game that touts having full voice-acting and story for each of the classes, you want to create a completly new set of character that don't, essentially breaking the best thing Bioware has going for it and the one thing that sets it apart in the genre?

That makes no logical sense, and is horrendously poor game design.

The fleets would survive, the factions would survive and nothing would implode. And the crafting that they do could be a limited crafting specifically for them. If they can craft and reverse engineer social armour aka adaptive armour and offer buffs that work the same way as a stim and adrenal they have a role in the game.

Yes but considering that your social class characters are completly noncombatant, you have absolutly no reason to be in the Republic or Sith Fleets, which is a purely military installation.

There are crafting professions out there for stims and adrenals. There is already armor crafting, any social gear that's out there you can already buy from a vendor. There is nothing out there that you can give to a dedidacted crafter that any of the other professions don't already cover.

Once again, completly redundant and vacuous.

 

And the key thing here your stating is you dont want them so no one else should have them, you dont enjoy the idea of just being an entertainer or social class so no one should enjoy dancing or playing music in the sw universe. Well im sorry to say this but just because you dont like it or want it shouldnt allow you to dictate what others will like or enjoy. And what is in this topic is not wanting the nge, its the polar opposite and this isnt about scrounging ideas from flops, its part of the mmo genre that would enhance swtor but you shall never understand that.

That is actually not the key that I'm stating. What I'm stating is that it's a horrible idea that requires a great deal of time to add to the game, while not actually adding anything meaningful to it. I'm stating that it's completly seperate in mechanics and feel from every single other thing that you can do in this game, and that has never been a successful move.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy it. I'm saying it has absolutly no place in this game.

It is absolutly scrounging for ideas from flops, because that is exactly what you have done. You went and found bits and pieces from a game (that flopped) and trying to add it into this.

You are actually asking exactly for the NGE. You're asking for a completly new and seperate set of mechanisms to be added to the game that it was never intended for, just because you think it will attract more customers to the game, which is exactly what NGE did.

 

It will not enhance the game. to enhance something is:

To raise to a higher degree: magnify, intensify

to raise the value or price of

 

The word you're looking for would be to diversify the game, but diversifying something is not equittable to enhancing it.

 

The Old Republic is not risen to a higher degree by adding classes that do nothing and add nothing.

[testszag]

Actually from a historical perspective it was sooner than that. Jump to Lighstpeed was a net loss: more customers left when it came out than the expansion brought in.

I'm well are of the CU and the NGE and all of that nonsense, It's just completly irrelevant. It was a bad game from the start, and I say again, if the game was actually anywhere as good as you want me to believe than they wouldn't have had to redefine what the game was supposed to be 3 times.

 

That's also completly unnecessary, as you can roleplay with any of the other 8 classes that are readily availble.

So the idea here is to make noncombatant classes:

They can't engage in combat

They can only do either crafting or dancing (both which any other character do)

Their main appeal is for roleplaying (which any other character can do)

They're meant to be an alt character....

This idea is wholly and utterly redundant and vacuous.

 

 

Again, you really think that in a game of Total War, where every single civilization is a potential target, every planet is a battlefield, and every character is a soldier, that you can create a completly nuetral class, that does NOTHING?

No class missions? So in a game that touts having full voice-acting and story for each of the classes, you want to create a completly new set of character that don't, essentially breaking the best thing Bioware has going for it and the one thing that sets it apart in the genre?

That makes no logical sense, and is horrendously poor game design.

Yes but considering that your social class characters are completly noncombatant, you have absolutly no reason to be in the Republic or Sith Fleets, which is a purely military installation.

There are crafting professions out there for stims and adrenals. There is already armor crafting, any social gear that's out there you can already buy from a vendor. There is nothing out there that you can give to a dedidacted crafter that any of the other professions don't already cover.

Once again, completly redundant and vacuous.

 

 

That is actually not the key that I'm stating. What I'm stating is that it's a horrible idea that requires a great deal of time to add to the game, while not actually adding anything meaningful to it. I'm stating that it's completly seperate in mechanics and feel from every single other thing that you can do in this game, and that has never been a successful move.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy it. I'm saying it has absolutly no place in this game.

It is absolutly scrounging for ideas from flops, because that is exactly what you have done. You went and found bits and pieces from a game (that flopped) and trying to add it into this.

You are actually asking exactly for the NGE. You're asking for a completly new and seperate set of mechanisms to be added to the game that it was never intended for, just because you think it will attract more customers to the game, which is exactly what NGE did.

 

It will not enhance the game. to enhance something is:

To raise to a higher degree: magnify, intensify

to raise the value or price of

 

The word you're looking for would be to diversify the game, but diversifying something is not equittable to enhancing it.

 

The Old Republic is not risen to a higher degree by adding classes that do nothing and add nothing.

 

what he said

[Goretzu]

what other reason than "i don't want it" do i need? i played swg, and didn't ike it. plain and simple.

 

again, leave that crap with swg, where it belongs

 

 

 

You hated every single aspect of SWG? Including JTL?

[Shingara]

Actually from a historical perspective it was sooner than that. Jump to Lighstpeed was a net loss: more customers left when it came out than the expansion brought in.

I'm well are of the CU and the NGE and all of that nonsense, It's just completly irrelevant. It was a bad game from the start, and I say again, if the game was actually anywhere as good as you want me to believe than they wouldn't have had to redefine what the game was supposed to be 3 times.

 

Your really dont know what your on about shown very clearly here http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png now look where the subs fell through the floor. And they changed it twice not 3 times. You can see the dip where they messed about with the fatigue system and then word filtered down that it was going to be sorted numbers came back up, cu hit and they demolished the social class's which didnt sort it and bang goodnight viena. NGE was just the straw for the camel for the majority that stayed.

 

That's also completly unnecessary, as you can roleplay with any of the other 8 classes that are readily availble.

So the idea here is to make noncombatant classes:

They can't engage in combat

They can only do either crafting or dancing (both which any other character do)

Their main appeal is for roleplaying (which any other character can do)

They're meant to be an alt character....

This idea is wholly and utterly redundant and vacuous.

 

To you it maybe, but for others that is not the case, even if only 100k people chose to play the game as such it would not effect you in a bad way in any shape or form. It would not enhance the combat within the game and it would not enhance to the world pvp or pve aspects of the game but it would enhance the RP element of the game and it would also allow for an alternative type of gameplay for others.

 

The idea is to make none combat social class's, who either dance, play music in bars and social areas to other players, Have the ability to purchase social armour and craft social armour to sell to players who do not have the social class but still wish to gain social armour they can create. This would create a greater community and remove some of the tribalism that has erupted since wow.

 

Again, you really think that in a game of Total War, where every single civilization is a potential target, every planet is a battlefield, and every character is a soldier, that you can create a completly nuetral class, that does NOTHING?

No class missions? So in a game that touts having full voice-acting and story for each of the classes, you want to create a completly new set of character that don't, essentially breaking the best thing Bioware has going for it and the one thing that sets it apart in the genre?

That makes no logical sense, and is horrendously poor game design.

Yes but considering that your social class characters are completly noncombatant, you have absolutly no reason to be in the Republic or Sith Fleets, which is a purely military installation.

There are crafting professions out there for stims and adrenals. There is already armor crafting, any social gear that's out there you can already buy from a vendor. There is nothing out there that you can give to a dedidacted crafter that any of the other professions don't already cover.

Once again, completly redundant and vacuous.

 

And so what if there is a war, there are still bars and social areas, in world wars people have to have downtime. Traders and merchants still go about there lives and not everyone in a worn torn universe activly takes part within it, alot basically become switzerland and have no need to ever enter combat areas. They have every reason to be in the fleets, they have bars and traders. And it makes sense just not to you.

 

And if you go into the fleet bars you will find no people, if you go into the bars you will find no people. These are rich and well designed areas for social interaction with no players using them, having this in game allows for them to be used. And whos to say they couldnt have class quests, they just wouldnt have go save the universe or go kill that guy quests. If there class quests are to play in specific places with cutscenes set within gaining favour with hutts and other cartels to gain access to there areas those would be still class quests at which point they could attain new companions, and we have none combat companions now, they are sat on our ships so they are doable. What if it were a case that interacting with players doing this content got you rested xp faster whilst in the social areas like bars and you could get to the cap of your rested xp if you stay there an hour. So not redundant only redunadant to you.

 

That is actually not the key that I'm stating. What I'm stating is that it's a horrible idea that requires a great deal of time to add to the game, while not actually adding anything meaningful to it. I'm stating that it's completly seperate in mechanics and feel from every single other thing that you can do in this game, and that has never been a successful move.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy it. I'm saying it has absolutly no place in this game.

It is absolutly scrounging for ideas from flops, because that is exactly what you have done. You went and found bits and pieces from a game (that flopped) and trying to add it into this.

You are actually asking exactly for the NGE. You're asking for a completly new and seperate set of mechanisms to be added to the game that it was never intended for, just because you think it will attract more customers to the game, which is exactly what NGE did.

 

It will not enhance the game. to enhance something is:

To raise to a higher degree: magnify, intensify

to raise the value or price of

 

The word you're looking for would be to diversify the game, but diversifying something is not equittable to enhancing it.

 

The Old Republic is not risen to a higher degree by adding classes that do nothing and add nothing.

 

And again what your stating is that something like this wouldnt add anything for you and in turn your dicatating it could for that fact not enhance the game for others. If it takes time todo who says it has to be in now. The vast areas that these class's would play in are already created but no players goto them unless a quests drags them into a bar. The casino on nar shadda is a prime example.

 

They do have a place in the game and in any of the sw films and lore there are bartenders and entertainers so who are you to tell others that they cannot take part in that aspect of the game because it doesnt fit your ideals of what the game is. And like i said, if 100k people play the game just for the casual aspect that there is about £900k a month pre tax extra in subs to bioware who can put that money back into the game development.

 

You cannot also state that changing to what the nge did which this isnt about as it would change nothing in the core game as the nge tried to make the game excuslivly themepark, there is nothing about exclusive about what is being stated here, its inclusive without prejudice. The nge removed any aspects of the game that were not of a mixed type, it was only themepark. we have a themepark now so what exactly are we asking for that is in the nge exactly.

 

ALSO its not about getting ideas from flops, and even if it were doing that it is shown to work as world of warcraft has done it for years as nothing in that game is original.

 

And lets take your principles at heart shall we, pazzak, swoop racing, general minigames, most of space, any new races, any fluff items, puzzles, none combat world events, new social armour and any none combat orientated missions be them class or normal world, Any form of player/guild housing, ship customization, chat bubbles, ability to sit in seats, day/night and weather cycles etc etc etc all out and never to be worked upon.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Shingara

[Goretzu]

And lets take your principles at heart shall we, pazzak, swoop racing, general minigames, most of space, any new races, any fluff items, puzzles, none combat world events, new social armour and any none combat orientated missions be them class or normal world, Any form of player/guild housing, ship customization, chat bubbles, ability to sit in seats, day/night and weather cycles etc etc etc all out and never to be worked upon.

 

If they added all those things, SWTOR would just be so much better.

 

Annoyingly a lot of them should already be in.

[SturmUndSterne]

The idea is to make none combat social class's, who either dance, play music in bars and social areas to other players, Have the ability to purchase social armour and craft social armour to sell to players who do not have the social class but still wish to gain social armour they can create. This would create a greater community and remove some of the tribalism that has erupted since wow.

 

You want a character that doesn't do combat, that only does social activities?

 

I know where you can find that character. It's even in an EA owned title.

 

Go play the Sims.

[Shingara]

You want a character that doesn't do combat, that only does social activities?

 

I know where you can find that character. It's even in an EA owned title.

 

Go play the Sims.

 

Do you want to tell me how to enjoy my game, i know how you can do that, pay for my subscription.

[Shingara]

double post Edited July 15, 2012 by Shingara

[Baphomet_x]

You want a character that doesn't do combat, that only does social activities?

 

I know where you can find that character. It's even in an EA owned title.

 

Go play the Sims.

 

im going to aid shingara on this one

 

to the guy i just quoted...your allowed to think what you like...but lets match realisms shall we dear?

 

i bet 2 to 1 that you rarely if ever do any combat....most of your life is spent entertaining yourself and maintaining yourself and circumstances...almost 0 of it is actual kill or be killed combat

 

even in regular militarys,in the highest,most top secret facilitys there are bar tenders,cooks,and so on...

 

shingara is supported by the history of mankind,what are you supported by sturm?

Edited July 15, 2012 by Baphomet_x

[Darth_Halford]

To you it maybe, but for others that is not the case, even if only 100k people chose to play the game as such it would not effect you in a bad way in any shape or form. It would not enhance the combat within the game and it would not enhance to the world pvp or pve aspects of the game but it would enhance the RP element of the game and it would also allow for an alternative type of gameplay for others.

No, this isn't some magical fairytale land where I don't get to use something just because I don't see the magic of friendship. The classes are the exact same for everyone, and this class does nothing new or unique. You can already RP with any other character, you can already dance or craft with anything.

IF you're so so certain it can "enhance" the game (which is still the wrong word, by the way) explain it to me. How does a class that does nothing I couldn't already do "enhance" this game?

 

 

The idea is to make none combat social class's, who either dance, play music in bars and social areas to other players, Have the ability to purchase social armour and craft social armour to sell to players who do not have the social class but still wish to gain social armour they can create. This would create a greater community and remove some of the tribalism that has erupted since wow.

OR, we can do what neary mmo has done in the last ten years, and just give those abilities to everyone.

Tribalism is putting the small social group of a "tribe" above friends, family, or country. You're going to have to explain how we have that in this game, and how dancing is the cure to that problem.

 

 

And so what if there is a war, there are still bars and social areas, in world wars people have to have downtime. Traders and merchants still go about there lives and not everyone in a worn torn universe activly takes part within it, alot basically become switzerland and have no need to ever enter combat areas. They have every reason to be in the fleets, they have bars and traders. And it makes sense just not to you.

Have you found an example of switzerland in this game? because I haven't. Even in areas that are "nuetral" like Nar Shaddaa or Voss, both sides are always at each others throat and trying to leverage the systems to their cause.

Yes, there are bars and places where combatant forces have downtime, and those places do need to be manned.

 

That's what we have NPC's for.

 

And if you go into the fleet bars you will find no people, if you go into the bars you will find no people. These are rich and well designed areas for social interaction with no players using them, having this in game allows for them to be used. And whos to say they couldnt have class quests, they just wouldnt have go save the universe or go kill that guy quests. If there class quests are to play in specific places with cutscenes set within gaining favour with hutts and other cartels to gain access to there areas those would be still class quests at which point they could attain new companions, and we have none combat companions now, they are sat on our ships so they are doable. What if it were a case that interacting with players doing this content got you rested xp faster whilst in the social areas like bars and you could get to the cap of your rested xp if you stay there an hour. So not redundant only redunadant to you.

I can be socially active in the fleet from anywhere through general chat. Oh boy, my character may be sitting in the bar (that you can't actually sit in) but I'm being no less social than any other place in the game.

I'm sensing a pattern.

So not only are the classes themselves clones of everything a combatant character can do, all three acts of their story are clones of one another.

 

 

 

And again what your stating is that something like this wouldnt add anything for you and in turn your dicatating it could for that fact not enhance the game for others. If it takes time todo who says it has to be in now. The vast areas that these class's would play in are already created but no players goto them unless a quests drags them into a bar. The casino on nar shadda is a prime example.

I'm not saying it wouldn't add anything for me. I'm saying that from a mechanical perspective it adds nothing.

 

 

They do have a place in the game and in any of the sw films and lore there are bartenders and entertainers so who are you to tell others that they cannot take part in that aspect of the game because it doesnt fit your ideals of what the game is. And like i said, if 100k people play the game just for the casual aspect that there is about £900k a month pre tax extra in subs to bioware who can put that money back into the game development.

They do have a place in the game....as NPC's. That's what you're asking for basically, is to be in control of a character that has no purpose but to be part of the scenery.

 

You cannot also state that changing to what the nge did which this isnt about as it would change nothing in the core game as the nge tried to make the game excuslivly themepark, there is nothing about exclusive about what is being stated here, its inclusive without prejudice. The nge removed any aspects of the game that were not of a mixed type, it was only themepark. we have a themepark now so what exactly are we asking for that is in the nge exactly.

You don't think they'll need to take away aspects that classes already have in order to make this idea work? Taking away or completly revamping how crafting works? Taking away certain emotes so that only the dancer can have it?

You are changing the core game. Maybe not mechanically, but there is something to be said about changing the themes and feels of the game. That a third of the classes in a war game have actually no part in the war makes a profound difference.

[HolyMamamia]

That is actually not the key that I'm stating. What I'm stating is that it's a horrible idea that requires a great deal of time to add to the game, while not actually adding anything meaningful to it. I'm stating that it's completly seperate in mechanics and feel from every single other thing that you can do in this game, and that has never been a successful move.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy it. I'm saying it has absolutly no place in this game.

It is absolutly scrounging for ideas from flops, because that is exactly what you have done. You went and found bits and pieces from a game (that flopped) and trying to add it into this.

You are actually asking exactly for the NGE. You're asking for a completly new and seperate set of mechanisms to be added to the game that it was never intended for, just because you think it will attract more customers to the game, which is exactly what NGE did.

 

It will not enhance the game. to enhance something is:

To raise to a higher degree: magnify, intensify

to raise the value or price of

 

The word you're looking for would be to diversify the game, but diversifying something is not equitable to enhancing it.

 

The Old Republic is not risen to a higher degree by adding classes that do nothing and add nothing.

 

 

Darth_Halford- First let me thank you for the time and contribution you have put into this forum, your idea's and opinions are greatly appreciated =)

 

What I have quoted above seems to be the sum of your thoughts. (Please tell me if I am wrong, and If so please provide them in a response)

 

War is Hell.

 

Whether your on the front lines or a stand up comic your contributions to a war effort are personal achievements. Entertainers, Engineers and Inventors take pride in knowing they're job contributes towards something more then themselves.

 

It's something the Galaxy and the force is based on, long long ago and far far away people who contributed to a War effort in any type of Social or Non-Combat Aspect, Lando (I believe a Mayor) selling out Han an Luke. Non combat character having personal ties within the war.

 

My summary is: The Star Wars Universe is filled with Social Characters and aspects, they should be available and offered to us in some way.

 

SWTOR already rewards you with social points for contributing in War Time Missions, they initially understood they're is some importance. I personally believe that is has headed the wrong way.

 

 

 

My personal feeling, my reasoning for starting this thread, I feel they're should be more social orientated skills or classes. Asking for a Class Revamp is absolutely insane for a game that has been out for 7-8 months I understand that, but ultimately its the players who decide. We are the financial backbone. -- *Please if you can respond to this in a separate post (if you were even going to) , I am more concerned about yours (and everyone's) dislike for social classes/skills.*-

 

This is a questions to you Darth --

 

How About Social -- Crew Skills Then?

 

Crew Skills Added for Entertaining.

 

Please any opinion?

--------------

 

Anyone is welcome to comment or add they're idea's, I try and edit the main page only after an idea has been tossed around for a page or two.

 

Thank you EVERYONE!!:p

Edited July 15, 2012 by HolyMamamia

[HolyMamamia]

Your really dont know what your on about shown very clearly here http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png now look where the subs fell through the floor. And they changed it twice not 3 times. You can see the dip where they messed about with the fatigue system and then word filtered down that it was going to be sorted numbers came back up, cu hit and they demolished the social class's which didnt sort it and bang goodnight viena. NGE was just the straw for the camel for the majority that stayed.

 

 

 

To you it maybe, but for others that is not the case, even if only 100k people chose to play the game as such it would not effect you in a bad way in any shape or form. It would not enhance the combat within the game and it would not enhance to the world pvp or pve aspects of the game but it would enhance the RP element of the game and it would also allow for an alternative type of gameplay for others.

 

The idea is to make none combat social class's, who either dance, play music in bars and social areas to other players, Have the ability to purchase social armour and craft social armour to sell to players who do not have the social class but still wish to gain social armour they can create. This would create a greater community and remove some of the tribalism that has erupted since wow.

 

 

 

And so what if there is a war, there are still bars and social areas, in world wars people have to have downtime. Traders and merchants still go about there lives and not everyone in a worn torn universe activly takes part within it, alot basically become switzerland and have no need to ever enter combat areas. They have every reason to be in the fleets, they have bars and traders. And it makes sense just not to you.

 

And if you go into the fleet bars you will find no people, if you go into the bars you will find no people. These are rich and well designed areas for social interaction with no players using them, having this in game allows for them to be used. And whos to say they couldnt have class quests, they just wouldnt have go save the universe or go kill that guy quests. If there class quests are to play in specific places with cutscenes set within gaining favour with hutts and other cartels to gain access to there areas those would be still class quests at which point they could attain new companions, and we have none combat companions now, they are sat on our ships so they are doable. What if it were a case that interacting with players doing this content got you rested xp faster whilst in the social areas like bars and you could get to the cap of your rested xp if you stay there an hour. So not redundant only redunadant to you.

 

 

 

And again what your stating is that something like this wouldnt add anything for you and in turn your dicatating it could for that fact not enhance the game for others. If it takes time todo who says it has to be in now. The vast areas that these class's would play in are already created but no players goto them unless a quests drags them into a bar. The casino on nar shadda is a prime example.

 

They do have a place in the game and in any of the sw films and lore there are bartenders and entertainers so who are you to tell others that they cannot take part in that aspect of the game because it doesnt fit your ideals of what the game is. And like i said, if 100k people play the game just for the casual aspect that there is about £900k a month pre tax extra in subs to bioware who can put that money back into the game development.

 

You cannot also state that changing to what the nge did which this isnt about as it would change nothing in the core game as the nge tried to make the game excuslivly themepark, there is nothing about exclusive about what is being stated here, its inclusive without prejudice. The nge removed any aspects of the game that were not of a mixed type, it was only themepark. we have a themepark now so what exactly are we asking for that is in the nge exactly.

 

ALSO its not about getting ideas from flops, and even if it were doing that it is shown to work as world of warcraft has done it for years as nothing in that game is original.

 

And lets take your principles at heart shall we, pazzak, swoop racing, general minigames, most of space, any new races, any fluff items, puzzles, none combat world events, new social armour and any none combat orientated missions be them class or normal world, Any form of player/guild housing, ship customization, chat bubbles, ability to sit in seats, day/night and weather cycles etc etc etc all out and never to be worked upon.

 

Shingara thank you so much for this post, and all your contribution. Perfectly worded.

[Darth_Halford]

 

Whether your on the front lines or a stand up comic your contributions to a war effort are personal achievements. Entertainers, Engineers and Inventors take pride in knowing they're job contributes towards something more then themselves.

But the overall question is how much can they really contribute?

The Trooper destroys an Imperial superweapon and defeats the Empire's greatest general. The Jedi defeats the Emporer Himself. Other classes have equally grandiose accomplishments that have a very clear contribution to the war.

Entertainers and Engineers, while important in a smaller scale, can never accomplish something that has such an affect large-scale.

 

My summary is: The Star Wars Universe is filled with Social Characters and aspects, they should be available and offered to us in some way.

I understand the mindset, but in-universe, Social Characters are only there to advance the plot and create scenery for the major characters.

Essentially, they're NPC's that you talk to during missions or flashpoints.

 

 

SWTOR already rewards you with social points for contributing in War Time Missions, they initially understood they're is some importance. I personally believe that is has headed the wrong way.

I don't. Social Points are rewarded for actually doing something with other players. Why be rewarded for simply talking when there's a galaxy to save/conquer.

 

I do think they could do alot more with it though.

 

 

This is a questions to you Darth --

 

How About Social -- Crew Skills Then?

 

Crew Skills Added for Entertaining.

 

Please any opinion?

It would be interesting to see how it works. particurlarly when most crew skills are "behind the scenes". I'm not opposed to the idea.

I would also propose that something being directly tied to your social level would help. If the idea is for people to interact with one another, than give all characters an incentive to do so, and not just the entertainers.

[Shingara]

we can do what neary mmo has done in the last ten years

 

 

So im starting to see a trend, it must be in the blueprint of wow or it wont work. you cannot deviate from it, you may only copy ideas wow have done and never ever touch ones that wow hasnt and never, not once ever think about doing something new. You know there is a game you can play where anything thats not combat is outlawed outright, go there.

 

Because lets see, the rest of that slew of ......... a post that you created consists of there are aparently no neutral people, you even think the voss arnt. That you think that standing in a bar looking at a seat is social gaming and that /dance and /clubdance cover this which is lol or the alternative to put all the skills bulked in with the combat class's as if it some sort of crafting and rework the entire crafting system for this ???

 

And always its 3 points you bring up.

 

1, its not in wow and wow never did it so it cannot be done. It would break the universe, time would go in reverse and britney spears would shave her hair again, just no please god no dont to it. ( generaly along those feelings of fear coming from you).

2, you dont like it.

3, because you dont like it no one should.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Shingara

[Darth_Halford]

So im starting to see a trend, it must be in the blueprint of wow or it wont work. you cannot deviate from it, you may only copy ideas wow have done and never ever touch ones that wow hasnt and never, not once ever think about doing something new. You know there is a game you can play where anything thats not combat is outlawed outright, go there.

Oh look, Johny made a man made of straw. How cute.

I didn't say anything about what WoW did, and I would never say that just because WoW did or did not do something TOR should follow. What I am saying is that if there are multiple games in the genre that use this aspect, are successful and enjoyed, than I see no reason to change it to a system that was used by one game that is thought by some to be the most annoying in the genre.

 

Because lets see, the rest of that slew of ......... a post that you created consists of there are aparently no neutral people, you even think the voss arnt.

Again, I didn't say that. I said that groups that are nuetral are being leveraged. Both the Sith and the Republic try to make allies out of both the Voss and the Hutts.

Sure, somewhere in the galaxy are people that are beyond the notice of the Republic and The Sith.

Have they appeared in this game? No.

 

That you think that standing in a bar looking at a seat is social gaming and that /dance and /clubdance cover this which is lol or the alternative to put all the skills bulked in with the combat class's as if it some sort of crafting and rework the entire crafting system for this ???

Well neither you or the or the original poster have put enough thought in to actually say how it should or will work, so I have full rights to come to my own conclusions.

 

I will tell you this. The only way to make a crafting class worthwhile is to make it the only class that can craft.

 

 

1, its not in wow and wow never did it so it cannot be done. It would break the universe, time would go in reverse and britney spears would shave her hair again, just no please god no dont to it. ( generaly along those feelings of fear coming from you).

2, you dont like it.

3, because you dont like it no one should.

 

You have the worst reading comprehension I have seen in years. I have said none of this. I have said my peace about how I think SWG is a horrible game, but I actually haven't said "I don't like social classes, therefore we shouldn't have them".

I HAVE, however, said several reasons why they should not be put in that actually follows logical deduction and good game design principles, and you just ignore it because it isn't what you want to hear.

 

Meanwhile, the only argument you have present for the game is because you want it and you think 100,000 players will come into the game because of it, even though there aren't even that many active players on the SWG emulators.

 

 

I'm not even going to bother with you anymore unless you can begin to answer some of the questions or concerns that's been brought up.

What is it exactly that a social class brings to the game that you can't currently do?

Are social classes the only way to reach your goal?

How do you make 50 levels of content without doing the exact same thing?

How do you create stories that are not only sufficient for 50 levels, but are on par in scale and signifance with the combatant classes?

How do you keep the "wartime" feel when half of the characters in each fleet aren't even combatant?

How do you integrate them into the rest of The Old Republic without it feeling like a completly different game?

 

I anticipate that you won't though. You will continue, as you always have, to detract from the actual discussion about the pro's and con's of the idea, and make it purely an attack on me and that I'm this archvillain trying to ruin everyone elses fun just because I don't like it.

 

You're as predictable and shallow-minded as pop music.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Darth_Halford