Stunned...full resolve...rooted...rooted...rooted...no resolve...stunned...

[Caeliux]

I'm understanding you just fine. You disagree with Bioware's system since it doesn't meet your defintion of what the system should do.

 

So you agree that "Its working as intended"?

 

Check and check.

[Darth_Philar]

So you agree that "Its working as intended"?

 

Check and check.

 

Resolve works exactly as Bioware has stated it should.

 

You want Resolve to work differently.

[Metajedi]

Instead of having a resolve bar I think we should X number of resolve squares that need to be filled. Because the problem with the bar is a lot of people will think its full when it may have just the slightest bit left to go leaving them open for a stun.

 

In addition to changing the graphic to make it easier to see quickly... I think any Stun ( full stun, character inactive) or Mezz ( broken on Damage) should fill up one square ... I would say a person should have 3 cubes and be open therefore for a maximum of 3 cc's before you get a 15-20 second immunity after which it resets . Additionally if a character only has a partially set of squares if no CC is applied within 15-20 seconds one square should disappear and so on and so forth

 

I think a resolve system shift toward a model like this or similar, I mean the time it takes to reset/drop off resolve squares may need to be adjusted... I was really just throwing out arbitrary numbers.

 

However I do think that the resolve reset/drop off needs to be lower then most CC cool downs by atleast half... I think that would help the game not being such a CC fest.

 

Final Note....

 

Roots should not respect resolve, plain and simple, that would be a massive advantage/disadvatage for certain classes and it would be game breaking

[Caeliux]

There's 36, Deadly Throw doesn't have any CC. And you don't have to guess, you can count like I did. There are 20 of the 36 that are not snares/roots, or significantly higher than 10%.

 

My bad didn't add this on that list,

Displacement http://www.torhead.com/ability/fLyua0G/displacement

 

There Saber throw becomes a CC with that.

[Caeliux]

You want Resolve to work differently.

 

I want it to work properly.

[Darth_Philar]

I want it to work properly.

 

It does work properly in that it works exactly as it was designed to work. You want it to work differently.

[Ghostuka]

Man, I heard damage is also classified as cc. Look at it! High damage = you are dead. And you have to walk all the way back to the field again.

Worse than eating a full 8 second stun.

 

WORST. CC. EVER. IS. DYING.

 

so damage = cc too.

 

amirite?

[Khoraji]

I want it to work properly.

 

Lol, no you want to change what Resolve does. It works just as BW intended it to.

[Dodgefella]

notice whoever is sayin that resolve is working as intended is an IMP player...

[Khoraji]

notice whoever is sayin that resolve is working as intended is an IMP player...

 

....? Oh so Republic characters dont have resolve?

[Ghostuka]

....? Oh so Republic characters dont have resolve?

 

it is mirror.. they have something called "wisdom" which is inferior to dark side's resolve

 

since you know, imperials are overpowered with the dark side

[PloGreen]

You are not understanding me atm, I will explain.

 

Any form of impairing movement or CC should be controled. Resolve bar was suppose to be the solution but has more glitches and more problems allowing us players able to control our toon properly.

 

Resolve bar was suppose to make us immune while it drained down to 0 from pure white, but now we all know Bioware didn't add true cc into the equation of what cc is and what cc does.

 

Therefore, I have posted all 37 ways to cc someone in the game, and yet we don't know how many of them actually is on the resolve bar protection list.

 

An interupt can lock out a char from performing an ability, a root prevents someone from moving, it does not prevent them from using skills - hence why they both are not on resolve.

[kitsinni]

What?

 

The rules of this mmo are fairly straightforward.

 

Resolve affects - knockbacks, hard stuns etc

 

not on resolve - root, snares, leaps

 

Understanding that, having no problems myself.

 

Melee get plenty of defensive cooldowns for this purpose.

Gunslingers also get a talent to prevent this.

You have a cc breaker.

You have a team, that dispel.

 

What is the problem again?

 

Nobody needs the 30th explanation of how BW made this work. What we are saying is there are BETTER ways for this to work, including the ways that pretty much every other MMO has done it. Pretty much no other MMO allows non-stop, non-diminishing roots on players with no base item or skill to become immune to them. Yes for the 1000th time we get this is not how BW did it we are saying they should change it to the way that the more successful PvP games have done it because it works better and keeps people playing longer.

 

Congrats on your ability to repeat what has been said 100 times though.

[Khoraji]

Nobody needs the 30th explanation of how BW made this work. What we are saying is there are BETTER ways for this to work, including the ways that pretty much every other MMO has done it. Pretty much no other MMO allows non-stop, non-diminishing roots on players with no base item or skill to become immune to them. Yes for the 1000th time we get this is not how BW did it we are saying they should change it to the way that the more successful PvP games have done it because it works better and keeps people playing longer.

 

Congrats on your ability to repeat what has been said 100 times though.

 

The problem is that alot of people on these forums believe resolve is actually broken...like it doesnt work how BW states it does. So we gete those idiots and reasonable people like you confused.

[Ghostuka]

Okay, I apologize for my sarcastic responses. But I will repeat my earlier statement:

 

From my experience, resolve is working perfectly as described in the stickied thread of this forum. Meaning, as soon as you get a full resolve bar due to a stun, mezz (stun that breaks on damage) or knockback/pull, you are immune to another stun/mezz/knockback as long as there is that white bar staying there. Even when it is draining, if your resolve has any white in it, you are still immune to these listed effects.

 

Sometimes a stun that is casted on you will bring your resolve bar to full status. But if they are casted on you while your resolve bar is not full, that means they will keep their effect on you for their duration. You can use your cc-break and get out of it, and still keep the full resolve bar and enjoy being immune to stun/mezz/knockback for a while.

 

Slow effects will not affect the resolve, even if they stop you completely. I DON'T support the argument which roots/or slows of this kind to be included in resolve personally.

 

Having said that, if there is anyone who claims resolve is broken, please show a video of this. A picture does not prove anything as it does not show me the resolve bar status at the time of the stun casted on you. And please provide a recent video, not something that is from 1.1 or something.

[kitsinni]

The problem is that alot of people on these forums believe resolve is actually broken...like it doesnt work how BW states it does. So we gete those idiots and reasonable people like you confused.

 

I don't think as many people think it is broken as say "it's broken", "it's broken" has become internet forum slang for "doesn't work the way I want".

[kweassa]

Nobody needs the 30th explanation of how BW made this work. What we are saying is there are BETTER ways for this to work, including the ways that pretty much every other MMO has done it. Pretty much no other MMO allows non-stop, non-diminishing roots on players with no base item or skill to become immune to them. Yes for the 1000th time we get this is not how BW did it we are saying they should change it to the way that the more successful PvP games have done it because it works better and keeps people playing longer.

 

Congrats on your ability to repeat what has been said 100 times though.

 

...and congrats on your ability to masquerade a classic resolve whine.

 

Besides, if the enemies are all rooting you, then they aren't rooting others on your team, granting them freedom. Its no different from whether the enemy focuses a single target or not... and its upto the rest of the team to take advantage of the situation and choose whether to use you as the 'bait' and do something else with their freedom of movement, or, help you survive and get out of chain roots.

 

All of this is simply a L2P issue - albeit at a larger scale than a single player and his understanding. It comes down to team mechanics and mutual support. The series of comments you made in this thread simply means you're unlucky and end up with particularly terribad PuG group as your teammates quite often.

 

The developers aren't babysitters. They expect players to learn to cope with a variety of situations, whether individually, or on a team scale, at some point... and certainly, just because you don't like something is hardly a reason enough that warrants a fix. If we use that same line of reasoning, I can simply say: "Oh man.. I hate it when the enemies focus fire me. Please put in diminishing returns or limit to damage against one person, so I don't have to face the consequences of my bad situational awareness..."

Edited July 13, 2012 by kweassa

[kitsinni]

...and congrats on your ability to masquerade a classic resolve whine.

 

 

Who is masquerading as anything? I know how it works, I know how BW wants it to work and I'm saying there are better ways to do it. I have played a ton of PvP games and the number one thing I see making people quit PvP games is a PvP system without diminishing returns on things that make people feel like they are losing control of their characters to things like roots and CC. That is why most successful MMOs with PvP that didn't have a system to prevent CC/root abuse added them later, just like SWTOR will eventually either add some type of item, skill or change the mechanic to break CC and roots or add some type of diminishing return or immunity to them in this game.

 

This is why the standard for most MMOs with PvP is you can't be chain rooted or CC'd by similar abilities without diminishing returns. This is why damage breaks CC and roots in most games. This is why most have significantly reduced duration of CC/roots in PvP. This is why most have an ability or item that gives a temporary immunity to them ... because this is a business and once people learn all the ways they can abuse the CC/Roots in this game people will quit playing it just like they did in every PvP game before this. Having people spend most of PvP frozen in place kills games, it has happened before and will happen again. IMO it is just a matter of time before BW realizes that they need to do the same thing. I think people will realize how game changing pulls/roots/stun/root can be for things like planting bombs in ranked WZ and it will be changed eventually.

 

This is just a L2Think issue.

[-Ransome-]

Please stop saying "roots" = cc in swtor. Currently "roots" does not equal cc. Until you get that fact of the game through your head you do not understand how the rules work in this game.

I disagree, anything you can use on the masses that slow, stop, disable, or etc so you dont have to worry about that person while you or your group is focusing on something else is crowed control.

Edited July 13, 2012 by -Ransome-

[Khoraji]

I disagree, anything you can use on the masses that slow, stop, disable, or etc so you dont have to worry about that person attacking while you or your group is focusing on something else is crowed control.

 

According to you, not SWTOR.

[kweassa]

Who is masquerading as anything? I know how it works, I know how BW wants it to work and I'm saying there are better ways to do it.

 

Which part of "maybe for you, but not for us who realize how elegant and simple the system is" do you not understand? The "better" in this case is your preference, not ours. You may not like it, but we do.

 

 

I have played a ton of PvP games and the number one thing I see making people quit PvP games is a PvP system without diminishing returns on things that make people feel like they are losing control of their characters to things like roots and CC.

 

That is why most successful MMOs with PvP that didn't have a system to prevent CC/root abuse added them later, just like SWTOR will eventually either add some type of item, skill or change the mechanic to break CC and roots or add some type of diminishing return or immunity to them in this game.

 

 

I've played enough PvP games since throughout the mid-90's when they didn't even have graphical interfaces, to realize that the amount of games played has got nothing to do with credibility of a person when it comes to PvP. Be they old or young, people whine and complain, and try to come up with clever excuses to why its always the game that's wrong, not themselves.

 

If you had really played so many PvP games to make it worth something, the way how SWTOR implements the crowdcontrol system in a quite different manner from other games, and the unique way how resolve works, should be enough to immediately realize that; (1) DR doesn't work in this game unless the entire CC system is implemented in a different manner more akin to those 'other games'; and (2) the frequent manifestation of full resolve status, when coupled with a good team, warrants a means to hinder characters that can stay continuously in full resolve forever.

 

A prime example is Huttball. When backed by a good coordination, a tank-ball carrier survives through a series of CCs and focus fire, and will stay in full resolve for incredible lengths of time. They are stunned for 8 seconds, survive the initial focus fire, enter full resolve for almost 20 seconds, and then when it runs dry they can immediately enter full resolve again when CCd. Without snares and roots, a Huttball match between two good teams simply degenerates into a pitiful race towards the ball spawn, again and again, since there's no stopping the merry march.

 

 

This is why the standard for most MMOs with PvP is you can't be chain rooted or CC'd by similar abilities without diminishing returns. This is why damage breaks CC and roots in most games. This is why most have significantly reduced duration of CC/roots in PvP. This is why most have an ability or item that gives a temporary immunity to them ... because this is a business and once people learn all the ways they can abuse the CC/Roots in this game people will quit playing it just like they did in every PvP game before this. Having people spend most of PvP frozen in place kills games, it has happened before and will happen again. IMO it is just a matter of time before BW realizes that they need to do the same thing. I think people will realize how game changing pulls/roots/stun/root can be for things like planting bombs in ranked WZ and it will be changed eventually.

 

This is just a L2Think issue.

 

Bullcrap. "Most MMOs with PvP" don't have extremely short CCs. They usually have something like at least 6~8 seconds for a hard stun, not to mention cycling of CC types actually attribute to a much longer downtime in those "Most MMOs with PvP" than what we have here. Idiots may claim this game is "Stun Wars", without ever realizing that the amount of time spent with loss of total control over their characters in SWTOR is actually very short, and anyone with a good exit strategy, or a backup plan can easily minimize the downtime further.

 

Stop disguising your personal complaints as something objective, because it isn't. If you don't like the way you can get rooted more often, for the price of being granted extremely short CC time as well as extended lengths of CC immunity, then really, nobody's stopping you to go and play "most other games", because SWTOR don't seem to be one of them.

[Paulman]

Who is masquerading as anything? I know how it works, I know how BW wants it to work and I'm saying there are better ways to do it. I have played a ton of PvP games and the number one thing I see making people quit PvP games is a PvP system without diminishing returns on things that make people feel like they are losing control of their characters to things like roots and CC. That is why most successful MMOs with PvP that didn't have a system to prevent CC/root abuse added them later, just like SWTOR will eventually either add some type of item, skill or change the mechanic to break CC and roots or add some type of diminishing return or immunity to them in this game.

 

This is why the standard for most MMOs with PvP is you can't be chain rooted or CC'd by similar abilities without diminishing returns. This is why damage breaks CC and roots in most games. This is why most have significantly reduced duration of CC/roots in PvP. This is why most have an ability or item that gives a temporary immunity to them ... because this is a business and once people learn all the ways they can abuse the CC/Roots in this game people will quit playing it just like they did in every PvP game before this. Having people spend most of PvP frozen in place kills games, it has happened before and will happen again. IMO it is just a matter of time before BW realizes that they need to do the same thing. I think people will realize how game changing pulls/roots/stun/root can be for things like planting bombs in ranked WZ and it will be changed eventually.

 

This is just a L2Think issue.

 

I've played a lot of MMOs and I think the resolve system is fine. The CC is not as bad in this game as it is in some. CCs in the game are relatively short and players don't have a lot of them. If you are getting chain CC'd it is usually because MULTIPLE players are on you and of course you will be at a disadvantage in that case. You need your team to help you.

 

Some classes use CC as part of thier defense. Do you really think being rooted, is worse than say 99% damage reduction, or your target disappearing. Ultimately someone has to win. Would you be happier getting blown up by a couple powertechs in a few seconds than getting CC'd by sorcs and eventually dying after 20 sec?

[funkiestj]

Yes, if it is a impairing movement its a Crowd Control move (CC).

 

You realize that it is not against the law for WoW to define CC one way and for another game (e.g. SWTOR) to come along and refine what "CC" means within their game? Each new game can have it's own nomenclature.

 

It seems that the term "CC" is causing a lot of problem. lets try to continue without using this term. Instead we can say "stuns & mezz & knockback' SMK).

 

Bioware has designed a system and described it to us. They tell us that SMK interacts with resolve, roots and snares do not.

 

Caeliux, do you say:

1. the italics statement above is incorrect
   
2. the statement above is correct but the system does not work as BW says (i.e. it has a ton of bugs -- not just a few)
   
3. the statement is correct, it mostly works as described but I think the system is bad and should be changed
   

 

It is hard for me to tell. Since you go on and on about "how snares and roots should be considered CC" I'm inclined to think believe #3 but in other parts of your post you seem to be saying #2 and other parts #1. It leaves me very confused.

 

Can we at least agree that 1, 2 and 3 above are mutually exclusive propositions?

 

Are you just trolling us here? If yes, good game

[funkiestj]

I know how it works, I know how BW wants it to work and I'm saying there are better ways to do it.

 

Thank you sir for communicating your opinion clearly! I disagree with you but at least I understand what your position is.

[Sock_Bramson]

Yes, thank you kit for discussing the matter at hand intelligently. I also happen to disagree with you, but kudos none the less. Typing on a phone, so I'll keep things short. Roots and snares are very manageable in this game because you can cleanse them and root/snare the bastard right back. Plus, melee classes get those tasty charges, while ranged classes have a few extra tools to create gaps again.

 

I'm personally enjoying swtor's pvp system more than the other mmos I've played in recent years, (yes, including wow) and I believe I will continue to do so.

 

-Hedley Melange <Physics>, Dreshdae-->The Shadowlands-