Nightkin Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Peoples oppinions about our class: ~DPS MERCS and SORC GO AWAY~ http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=502698 People just shudder when they see mercs in their teams in warzones. ~Our Data from Ranked WZs Shows PTs/Maras Perhaps Not So OPd ~ http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=498093 People avoid bringing mercs to rated teams, this is just from 1 server but still...20 mercs was all they managed to meet out of some 800 people? They also healed the least AND did the least amount of damage. Ways in which Merc pyro is better than PT pyro.. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=498301 This is merely what we as mercs feel and ofc, what everyone else thinks about us aswell! Fix merc or let us switch to powertech http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=501387 This is the reaction most people with some valor ranks get about our class. Design Goal request for Merc DPS (PvP) please. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=499338 Alot of the people who play mercs or commandos dont even understand what bioware is expecting from us. Should we be a subpar healer or a subpar dpser? Now enough whining, BUT and this is important! Noone likes us. Noone goes into a warzone and say, "oh **** guys we dont have a single merc with us. What a shame, that could have been useful." Is this the vision bioware had when creating one of the non force using classes? "An immobile squishy turret that has a hard time managing dps or heals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomuno Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://www.torparse.com/g/21 I seem to do just fine in Ops. As for PvP, it is a little rough, but if you bring some good friends with you and a good pocket healer, you can wipe the floor with almost everyone as Arsenal Spec. I don't feel that the Merc is broken, look at my torparse from last night with my guild, and tell me they are broken. ~Vul (SpaceSlug Origin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Im not sure what you point is, 950 dps is good according to you? Against PvE mobs? Im talking about peoples general feeling about Mercs, how we generally perform in a very subpar fashion in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://www.torparse.com/g/21 bring some good friends with you and a good pocket healer, you can wipe the floor with almost everyone as Arsenal Spec. ~Vul (SpaceSlug Origin) This also proves my point in the extreme, why would you need friends and a pockethealer to win a 1vs1 or to perform on par with the other classes? You also realise that there is marauders who pull 1900 dps in Ops? Even if you had the same gear level as that marauder then you still wouldnt be even near that. Not to mention the amount of utility you can offer your team is pretty much limited to your class buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeVans_ Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I dont wanna sound dickish but with the target tracking fix, my Arsenal sustained is now between 1800-1950. Easily on par with any Mara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholiday Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) As a BIS merc from both Pve and PvP.. Anoyone who says merc dps is inline with Marauders or Power techs is sorely mistaken. If you are seeing this in your play there are factors that you aren't taking into account. 1 the Mara or pt is bad. 2 they are not as geared as you 3 they aren't stimmed /buffed 4. They aren't trying I can't even get into a rated team with my guild who is doing very well here's why..y Operatives are better healers, can repeatedly sap, can stealth Marauders and Powertechs have higher burst and sustained DPS Pt's and Assasins can pull .. assasins can cc and stealth Snipers have higher dps, better group benifiting defensive CD's, better cc's Why on earth would u want a Merc? Edited July 12, 2012 by Jholiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholiday Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If you think otherwise then prove it.. put up some pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeo-finel Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Why isn't my thread up there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue_talon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 As a BIS merc from both Pve and PvP.. Anoyone who says merc dps is inline with Marauders or Power techs is sorely mistaken. If you are seeing this in your play there are factors that you aren't taking into account. 1 the Mara or pt is bad. 2 they are not as geared as you 3 they aren't stimmed /buffed 4. They aren't trying I can't even get into a rated team with my guild who is doing very well here's why..y Operatives are better healers, can repeatedly sap, can stealth Marauders and Powertechs have higher burst and sustained DPS Pt's and Assasins can pull .. assasins can cc and stealth Snipers have higher dps, better group benifiting defensive CD's, better cc's Why on earth would u want a Merc? Two knockbacks and off-heals in a clutch. I like my merc teammates, they can reach 500k and average 300k and are 30m range...... whats wrong with that? Pts dont have better sustained dps in pyro, they are burst... an Arsenal Merc can susatin fire better with about 50% less burst but it is still painful to recieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroecon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Two knockbacks and off-heals in a clutch. I like my merc teammates, they can reach 500k and average 300k and are 30m range...... whats wrong with that? Pts dont have better sustained dps in pyro, they are burst... an Arsenal Merc can susatin fire better with about 50% less burst but it is still painful to recieve. You probably think those numbers are proof that Merc dps are sufficient, but in fact it is only player skill counteracting inferior subclass quality. And once you go into ranked matches vs. competitive teams, your player skill advantage will vanish while your inferior subclass quality remains. There is a reason why PT/Vanguard dps outnumber Merc/Commando dps 20:1 in ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejib Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Two knockbacks and off-heals in a clutch. I like my merc teammates, they can reach 500k and average 300k and are 30m range...... whats wrong with that? Pts dont have better sustained dps in pyro, they are burst... an Arsenal Merc can susatin fire better with about 50% less burst but it is still painful to recieve. The ironic part about this is that you are talking about the WORST PvP spec for Mercs. Arsenal will JUST DIE when focus fired. Rocket punch is an extremely ineffective knockback unless they are next to a ledge, and those Damage numbers are definitely not in a rated war zone. The only time a Merc does 500k damage is when the other team is like, "I stands here in all the AOE's because it's fun". Most of you are still missing the same issue that the devs are missing right now about Mercs in PvP. DPS and healing numbers are really only 50% of the balance equation. I haven't seen a single competitive team roll with a Mercenary in their lineup. The bodyguard spec can throw out some big heals, and is great for raiding, but is easy to burn down/ lock down due to lack of effective defensive cool downs, and the comparative weakness of HOT heals compared to the other two classes. The same is essentially true of both the Merc DPS trees, the lack of a root, interrupt, or effective defensive cooldown makes them an easy target for other equally geared DPS classes. Arsenal is particularly bad due to the reliance on channeled and cast time abilities, and neither do enough damage to make up for the lack of utility. I think the devs had the reasonable fear that giving a ranged Heavy Armor class utility would be too imbalanced, but since there is only about a 5% difference in damage reduction between Heavy and Medium armor classes the result is an entire Advanced Class that is under-powered. I re-rolled for this reason, and am hoping that an upcoming patch will help us get back into the realm of competitive pvp. I think giving DPS mercs an interrupt and an improved defensive CD, while giving bodyguard Mercs improved defensive CD's and a Root effect would be a big step in the right direction. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baarabas Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I dont wanna sound dickish but with the target tracking fix, my Arsenal sustained is now between 1800-1950. Easily on par with any Mara. What about Pyro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejib Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I dont wanna sound dickish but with the target tracking fix, my Arsenal sustained is now between 1800-1950. Easily on par with any Mara. That's great for individuals who raid, and this may be the case if you the opposing team just lets you stand in the back and tracer missile/ unload/ heat seeker missile/ rail shot them into the ground, but the reality is that only noobs will let you do this. The biggest problem is the static nature of arsenal in PvP and general lack of utility in the Mercenary advanced class to go with it. The unfortunate case for Mercenaries right now is that while Arsenal does the most damage, it is the least viable in a competitive setting for PvP for the reasons stated above. Essentially what this means is that Mercenaries aren't viable as DPS at all in rated WZ's, and on top of that, the bodyguard spec is under-powered as well. I hate to break it to all you who think DPS is the only number that matters, but there are 3 factors that are most important in PvP. Are you ready to have your mind blown? 1. Burst DPS - Sustained DPS matters when you have a long fight such as a raid boss. Burst DPS matters when you have to DPS through heals, or race another person to see who can kill the other the fastest. 2. Defensive Utility/ Damage Mitigation - Essentially abilities and traits that a class possesses that mitigate the damage that someone is attempting to them. 3. Offensive Utility - Stuns, interrupts, and debuff type abilities, etc. The mercenary class is behind in all 3 of these categories. So while the bump in "sustained DPS" is nice, bigger changes will be needed before Mercenaries are considered viable for competitive PvP. Thanks for reading. Edited July 16, 2012 by thejib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeVans_ Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) That's great for individuals who raid, and this may be the case if you the opposing team just lets you stand in the back and tracer missile/ unload/ heat seeker missile/ rail shot them into the ground, but the reality is that only noobs will let you do this. The biggest problem is the static nature of arsenal in PvP and general lack of utility in the Mercenary advanced class to go with it. The unfortunate case for Mercenaries right now is that while Arsenal does the most damage, it is the least viable in a competitive setting for PvP for the reasons stated above. Essentially what this means is that Mercenaries aren't viable as DPS at all in rated WZ's, and on top of that, the bodyguard spec is under-powered as well. I hate to break it to all you who think DPS is the only number that matters, but there are 3 factors that are most important in PvP. Are you ready to have your mind blown? 1. Burst DPS - Sustained DPS matters when you have a long fight such as a raid boss. Burst DPS matters when you have to DPS through heals, or race another person to see who can kill the other the fastest. 2. Defensive Utility/ Damage Mitigation - Essentially abilities and traits that a class possesses that mitigate the damage that someone is attempting to them. 3. Offensive Utility - Stuns, interrupts, and debuff type abilities, etc. The mercenary class is behind in all 3 of these categories. So while the bump in "sustained DPS" is nice, bigger changes will be needed before Mercenaries are considered viable for competitive PvP. Thanks for reading. I am fully aware of all this, the guy in the post above me was talking about his PvE dps. I think it is obvious that we suck in PvP for DPS. Heals still works if your team looks after you, and Pyro is OK if you can kite well and are really well geared. Just feels like we have nothing going for us right now apart from average healing, and the ability to burst weak healers down in Pyro. Edited July 18, 2012 by HeVans_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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