MMO fans or Star Wars fans? (Long Read)

[Gavynn]

Hi all,

 

I just wrapped up my session for the night and came to a bit of a realization that I thought I'd broadcast here.

 

Let's think about this - how many of us play because we're MMO fans and how many play because we're Star Wars fans?

 

The reason that I bring this up is because I feel like once the level cap is achieved, the game is pretty slanted towards one specific fan base. This, to me, is a reason that so many players have left.

 

I am one of those players that plays because I love the Star Wars universe. I grew up on it. I feel that we've hit a point in which we continually compare this to other MMO games and forget what really sells. For me, I pay for a Star Wars experience, I couldn't care less what this has over WoW or Rift or whatever other MMO is out there.

 

Gameplay will always be a very big factor in a game's lifespan, but we've seen games survive very long terms based on the whole experience, even though gameplay hasn't been perfect. The team at Bioware has done an amazing job of solving both problems, but (to me again) it only lasts until the level cap. They've also been very good at adding additional content, however there hasn't been very much user-driven content. This isn't just for the online crowd, but it's for all players. It also brings up the question of "why are MMOs strictly for social players?"

 

That may have sounded like a dumb question, since all of our existing MMOs are geared toward being social. But why? There's an enormous market that the likes of Everquest, WoW, Rift, etc never captured. Wouldn't it help sustainability to attract more of an audience than just those of one's competition?

 

Here's my (opinionated) solution: Focus on adding more user-driven/single-player/sand-box styled content. It obviously isn't meant to overpower the genre, but enough to give players that prefer to play solo or play at odd hours a chance to experience the Star Wars universe as well. This is Bioware's bread and butter. This understandably couldn't be implemented all at one time, but make a point to include those that want the sand-box/every day experience, the "Rogue Squadron"/"Tie-Fighter" space battles, the crafters, etc. I feel that it will give this game the needed boost to finish at the top.

 

The Star Wars fan base will always be bigger than the WoW fan base.

 

These are just some of my thoughts. Let me know what you think.

[Drudenfusz]

I am both, MMO fan and Star Wars Fan... And I don't think BioWare is doing a very good job in pleasing either fan base. Many MMO fans have already left SWTOR with reasons like it is just WoW in Space (which it is, but I don't see that not necessarily as a bad thing), but the raids are boring, there are not enough warzones, still to many bugs (like all those missing codex entries for the achievers). Pretty much every type of MMO player has something to complain. So, it feels like the game is just for the BioWare fans, and not for MMO fans or Star Wars fans. Edited July 11, 2012 by Drudenfusz

[Thuggy]

The pure sandbox market, sadly, is not that big....but they are very vocal and passionate. I do think some sandbox elements can vastly improve the gameplay experience...or really any content alternative to flashpoint/operation & daily grinding would greatly improve the endgame experience for a lot of people.

[Karquile]

Here's the thing in a nutshell: At the beginning of a game like this, the players consist of a bunch of MMO fans, plus a bunch of Star Wars fans. But as the game's novelty wears off, the players who remain are the subset who happened to be BOTH Star Wars fans AND MMO fans. Anybody who was one but not the other, tends to lose interest and drift away.

 

And there are not as many of the "BOTH" fans as LEC might hope, or as game partners might promise. That's the basic story - everything else is detail.

[Thuggy]

I am both, MMO fan and Star Wars Fan... And I don't think BioWare is doing a very good job in pleasing either fan base. Many MMO fans have already left SWTOR with reasons like it is just WoW in Space (which it is, but I don't see that not necessarily as a bad thing), but the raids are boring, there are not enough warzones, still to many bugs (like all those missing codex entries for the achievers). Pretty much every type of MMO player has something to complain. So, it feels like the game is just for the BioWare fans, and not for MMO fans or Star Wars fans.

 

I agree. Though calling swtor "wow in space" gives it too much credit....as it's not nearly as polished or well designed. And "not enough warzones" isn't really the problem. "Warzones and pvp modes are not robust or fun enough" is the problem. League of Legends has thrived with only 1 brilliantly designed map. Quality over quantity

[Drudenfusz]

And "not enough warzones" isn't really the problem. "Warzones and pvp modes are not robust or fun enough" is the problem. League of Legends has thrived with only 1 brilliantly designed map. Quality over quantity

I think that faving one one map works in LoL not just because of the quality of the map... Take for example Huttball - I think it is a solid map which people could enjoy for a long time by just playing that map, but sadly SWTOR feels to often like Stun Wars and we can't choose to play just the map we would like to play. The gear grind is then another thing that turns of some players, because they don't enjoy the too long grind to get to the point where they might feel competitive (and solo players are curently also excluded from the ranked warzones, which is another issue for some PvP players)... so yes, the number of PvP maps is not the whole proplem there, but I just listed things in my first post here that came in my mind when writting it (wasn't meant to be the complete or detailed problem list of the game).

Edited July 11, 2012 by Drudenfusz

[Morrolan]

Here's the thing in a nutshell: At the beginning of a game like this, the players consist of a bunch of MMO fans, plus a bunch of Star Wars fans. But as the game's novelty wears off, the players who remain are the subset who happened to be BOTH Star Wars fans AND MMO fans. Anybody who was one but not the other, tends to lose interest and drift away.

 

Funny as this probably sounds to mmo fans, I was a Star Wars fan but swtor has made me a mmo fan as well.

[WoodChipper]

I love Star Wars and I always wanted to try an MMO so here I am. Been playing since March and I am about to resub for another 3 months.

[Dawgtide]

Neither actually. I am a Bioware fan from back in the days of Baldur's Gate. I love their games and I am not disappointed here. Just about finished with my 4th story. 4 more in the works and by then they may have more content to do on each character.

 

Let me qualify my post by saying I played Everquest for 8 years, so I guess I am an MMO fan. But I am long past the second job atmosphere that some MMOs bring. I enjoy playing at my leisure.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Dawgtide

[Ivalice]

I am both, MMO fan and Star Wars Fan... And I don't think BioWare is doing a very good job in pleasing either fan base.

 

Pretty much this. I have played many MMOs, and of course being a star wars fan I played SWG. WoW never really got it right for me. There was a set path for everyone and you went down it. I think that is why Bioware fans love this game. It feels very much like a SP RPG with chat components.

 

As an MMO fan, I want to see more innovation since there are games like Eve, Salem, and Guild Wars 2 pushing the market forward. As a star wars fan I shook my head at people saying this game would flounder because of the time era. Now I realize, they where right. People connect with the movies, and we are standing around in a scifi universe for the most part no one can relate to.

 

At my core I will be a MMO first and SW fan second. I am not a bioware fan. Just here because they shut down SWG.

[TheBetty]

When you think about it, people should probably give Bioware a break. They are essentially fighting a battle on two fronts.

* Trying to create a game that embraces a significant amount of the Star Wars Universe Lore.

* Bringing a brand new mmo into an already overcrowded genre and reaching the standards of even the most harcore MMO player.

 

One of them is bad enough lol.

[Karquile]

Funny as this probably sounds to mmo fans, I was a Star Wars fan but swtor has made me a mmo fan as well.

 

Doesn't sound funny at all - MMO fans have to come from somewhere!

 

I will say that if SWTOR is anyone's first MMO experience, they have some interesting surprises waiting for them elsewhere on the shelf.

[turjake]

Neither actually. I dont like much some elements of a typical mmorpg, like grinding, other people sometimes The original starwars was a good movie, it just doesnt feel like a world I would like to spend my time. I am a KOTOR fan instead. KOTOR is ofcourse part of star wars but still different world than the original one.

 

Bioware has done a good work creating a game where I can actually actually feel good after following the story and levelling to max level. In some other mmorpg it would be something like: I just killed 230149 lizards to achieve max level, do I feel legendary? I just wish they got more content soon, although I have not finished all the old ones yet.

[Comstrike]

I am a Star Wars fan, or I would not be here. I am a Tolkien fan, which is why I started with LOTRO, and is also the only reason I am there. The MMORPG format is something that appeals to me, yet it must be matched with the right IP. Plus, it has to be fun to explore and dwell in, not just mash buttons and score points.

 

I think Bioware sold EA the idea of the "fourth pillar," full voice-overs, and that their established base of fanbois would ensure a built-in subscriber base.

 

The problem is that MMORPGs are like politics and religion....and select college football rivalries. You simply can NOT tell the average MMORPG player how to play their game. And most see it as THEIR game, not the companies. When a company actually tries to say "your playing it wrong," you've lost the war right there. When you try to sell the discredited concept that rolling all classes IS content, you've lost the war.

 

People wanted story, but the story many thought they would get, was the grand backdrop of galactic war, into which we would inject our own characters. Instead, we got stories created for us, with vaguely different wrappers, which we had to play through. The voice overs were generally nice, generally well done, but ultimately not a game changer, nor indispensable to most players. The Bioware fanbois have been the most silent of all. Assurances that Bioware could not fail, and the idol worship has utterly vanished from in-game or forum discussions. Evidently, so have most of their subscription dollars.

 

Most of my guilds LOTRO imports, came here for Star Wars, hoping for as high a quality experience as we had with our home game. Those of us that remain, which aren't many, will stick it out. Most all have returned to LOTRO full time. But this really wasn't what we thought we were going to get when we were a year back. The only thing, the sole thing, the singular aspect that keeps us subscribed, is Star Wars. Not PvP, not endgame, not the social/RP aspects, not the fluff, not the voice overs, not the "fourth pillar." We continue to hope this game cleans itself up, as new games often do, and a year from now SWTOR is much improved.

[oakamp]

Neither actually. I dont like much some elements of a typical mmorpg, like grinding, other people sometimes The original starwars was a good movie, it just doesnt feel like a world I would like to spend my time. I am a KOTOR fan instead. KOTOR is ofcourse part of star wars but still different world than the original one.

 

Bioware has done a good work creating a game where I can actually actually feel good after following the story and levelling to max level. In some other mmorpg it would be something like: I just killed 230149 lizards to achieve max level, do I feel legendary? I just wish they got more content soon, although I have not finished all the old ones yet.

^^this,

i like kotor1,2,

ya, i played uo,eq,wow,

but i quit, cause of the grinding stupid things,

and i do like star wars too.

[Toweleeeie]

Star Wars and MMO fan here. Thats why Im subbed and will continue to sub.

 

All this game needs is an appearance tab and more none combat things to do. Give us some sandbox type stuff.

 

PvP: Ilum should be turned into a DaoC type game.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Toweleeeie

[Gavynn]

I am a Star Wars fan, or I would not be here. I am a Tolkien fan, which is why I started with LOTRO, and is also the only reason I am there. The MMORPG format is something that appeals to me, yet it must be matched with the right IP. Plus, it has to be fun to explore and dwell in, not just mash buttons and score points.

 

I think Bioware sold EA the idea of the "fourth pillar," full voice-overs, and that their established base of fanbois would ensure a built-in subscriber base.

 

The problem is that MMORPGs are like politics and religion....and select college football rivalries. You simply can NOT tell the average MMORPG player how to play their game. And most see it as THEIR game, not the companies. When a company actually tries to say "your playing it wrong," you've lost the war right there. When you try to sell the discredited concept that rolling all classes IS content, you've lost the war.

 

People wanted story, but the story many thought they would get, was the grand backdrop of galactic war, into which we would inject our own characters. Instead, we got stories created for us, with vaguely different wrappers, which we had to play through. The voice overs were generally nice, generally well done, but ultimately not a game changer, nor indispensable to most players. The Bioware fanbois have been the most silent of all. Assurances that Bioware could not fail, and the idol worship has utterly vanished from in-game or forum discussions. Evidently, so have most of their subscription dollars.

 

Most of my guilds LOTRO imports, came here for Star Wars, hoping for as high a quality experience as we had with our home game. Those of us that remain, which aren't many, will stick it out. Most all have returned to LOTRO full time. But this really wasn't what we thought we were going to get when we were a year back. The only thing, the sole thing, the singular aspect that keeps us subscribed, is Star Wars. Not PvP, not endgame, not the social/RP aspects, not the fluff, not the voice overs, not the "fourth pillar." We continue to hope this game cleans itself up, as new games often do, and a year from now SWTOR is much improved.

 

This is a lot of what I was discussing in the OP. This really is an incredible game, but I feel like post-level 50, players are forced into PVP or flashpoint/PVE content. I'm certainly not taking that away, as there is some amazing content there.

 

I'd like to see more elements such as a focus on the space design and/or player housing to reach more of the fan base. Personally, those two elements kept me on SWG for 7 years, and I certainly wouldn't consider myself an MMO fan first. I'm playing an MMO because I love Star Wars.