Does anyone do Tactics or Shield anymore? (PvP)

[Arkanjil]

I love to dabble in many of the specs throughout our 3 trees. Each serves a purpose and hybrids provide a refreshing mix of neat aspects from each tree. As many have said, shield is still very viable given its role of ranking. Tactics offers a few builds that provide great support and utility and giving a good amount of dps.

 

You don't see them as commonly as you used to, but they definitely have a place in ranked when played correctly. Pure specs are extremely fun and I love mastering each play style, but lately I"ve moved toward trying out the hybrids such as ss/assault and tactics/assault. They still give respectable dmg, but offer more utility/flexibility than full assault, at the expense of a little burst potential.

 

I'm no expert, but id be more than happy to show the hybrids I've tried with SS's or videos to show them in action.

 

Ultimately, as its been said many times before, try to decide on a role that fits you best and run with it. You'll have more fun and you might surprise people by your talent along the way. Its easier to master a spec that you love.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Arkanjil

[TheRampage]

I don't know if is this just me, but after the nerf I have feeling that I suck as tank in PVP. If 2 of them targets me (all without healer) im down in half of min, if 3 or more it is 10 sec tops. Then I see juggernauts holding bunch of enemies on them for a long long time.

 

Before that I was great. 1 on 1 I could stay alive for a very long time, ages, even 2 on 2, but now...

[skidrows]

I still use Ironfist spec abit remaid and think it works even do i never go over 400k damage.

[kjfett]

I would take anything posted by 13th Company representatives with a grain of salt. I have seen their Vanguards in action. Having said that.

 

There are Shield Spcs I have seen drop 200k damage and 100k prot which was unheard of pre 1.3. The AoE dot is definitely nice. However, there is no reason to take Combat Tech anymore, the damage difference will be minimal and your death will come sooner.

 

Taugrim and I agree on this part - Supercommando should be the set for tanks now, and you should switch guard to whoever is being focused. Keeping guard on your healer at all times is a huge mistake and a complete waste of guard. It should be tossed around to help dps stay alive, as well as taunting.

 

The biggest issue with Assault is it is easy to counter and they die quickly. Plus most of them have giant egos and little brains. They get so caught up in their boom boom, they forget they can taunt and use grapple to peel.

 

Tactics players tend to be more aware because they are always preparing for a setup. It provides more utility, and our Tactics guy is our best defender simply because his constant mobility allows him and increased survival allows him to solo guard better than most non-tanks.

 

anyway....your sub 50 trooper and old BH you haven't played in months hardly gives you forum cred to come in here and flame. I've actually played a lvl50 trooper with a shield spec....you have not. I'm no easier to counter than any other class. I don't die quickly. I love to taunt and I really love to use harpoon. Both are hot keyed.

 

Anyway, as has already been stated in the thread by other real troopers....Shields can apparently be viable in the hands of the 10% that actually know how to play it. Tactics....well, it's "fine". Assault is simply a blast to play. In the context of PVP.

[TheOpf]

anyway....your sub 50 trooper and old BH you haven't played in months hardly gives you forum cred to come in here and flame. I've actually played a lvl50 trooper with a shield spec....you have not. I'm no easier to counter than any other class. I don't die quickly. I love to taunt and I really love to use harpoon. Both are hot keyed.

 

Anyway, as has already been stated in the thread by other real troopers....Shields can apparently be viable in the hands of the 10% that actually know how to play it. Tactics....well, it's "fine". Assault is simply a blast to play. In the context of PVP.

 

Who said anything about shield be easy to counter? I said the exact opposite. A shield tech in tank gear is a pain to kill. I said Assault is easy to counter. That is all.

 

I just did a few warzones on The Bastion with my Norse spec pt, ended every single one with 300k plus damage and well 5k prot, but that's my fault I am out of practice with taunting. The play is the same as it is a month ago. I had a guy laugh at me and go stupid pyro, than he died because I wasn't pyro. He stunned me didn't kill me, and thanks to my mobility he couldn't kite me and died.

 

My point is this.

 

Assault is fine - Burst damage - easy to kill

Tactics is fine - steady damage - high mobility

Shield is fine - bugger to kill - low damage

[kjfett]

Who said anything about shield be easy to counter? I said the exact opposite. A shield tech in tank gear is a pain to kill. I said Assault is easy to counter. That is all.

 

I just did a few warzones on The Bastion with my Norse spec pt, ended every single one with 300k plus damage and well 5k prot, but that's my fault I am out of practice with taunting. The play is the same as it is a month ago. I had a guy laugh at me and go stupid pyro, than he died because I wasn't pyro. He stunned me didn't kill me, and thanks to my mobility he couldn't kite me and died.

 

My point is this.

 

Assault is fine - Burst damage - easy to kill

Tactics is fine - steady damage - high mobility

Shield is fine - bugger to kill - low damage

 

I'm assault.

 

not easy to kill.

 

high mobility.

 

surprised if I don't top 300k in a WZ.

 

can match protection points from taunt with any shield spec. (referring to taunt only, not guard)

 

and unlike your theory craft; having never played any of those specs as a lvl50 trooper...I have...all three.

 

tactics is not as viable as assault in PVP as its damage is spread out, and it is not mobile thanks to two major caste AOE castes it relies on.

 

shields is not as viable as assault in PVP unless it has one of the 10% playing...the other 90% play it out of fear of dying, not contributing more than 50k protection in a match....failing to make up the serious loss of DPS they suffer.

 

In conclusion...I enjoy killing norse and IF specs...killing them with an AP toss is most satisfying. . /assault

Edited July 5, 2012 by kjfett

[TheOpf]

I'm assault.

 

not easy to kill.

 

high mobility.

 

surprised if I don't top 300k in a WZ.

 

can match protection points from taunt with any shield spec.

 

and unlike your theory craft; having never played any of those specs as a lvl50 trooper...I have...all three.

 

tactics is not as viable as assault in PVP as its damage is spread out, and it is not mobile thanks to two major caste AOE castes it relies on.

 

shields is not as viable as assault in PVP unless it has one of the 10% playing...the other 90% play it out of fear of dying, not contributing more than 50k protection in a match....failing to make up the serious loss of DPS they suffer.

 

In conclusion...I enjoy killing norse and IF specs...killing them with an AP toss is most satisfying. . /assault

 

This is why 13th company is considered the worst pvp guild on Jung Ma. If you think Assault isn't easy to kill than you haven't been playing that long. Any halfway decent Operative would farm kill you.

 

I have a lvl 50 PT. I have played ever single spec including hybrids. I wrote the bloody AP guide. I was well known as the 2nd best PT on Ajunta Pall before before being forced to transfer to your server. I left the PT because my guild went repub. I could move back to Jung Ma, and farm you for years, but I wanted competition so I left.

 

Norse is AP it's a variation of ap used for survival specs. Assault is easily the squishiest of the three. The fact that you can match the prot of the shield guys in your guild tells me everything I need to know about your shield techs. I know a shield tech who broke 100k in Civil War. I was breaking 70k at lvl 22 on my Juggernaught. Breaking 50k in prot is as an Powertech in a good match is standard for any good PT/Vanguard.

 

Just because you farm baddies in Jung Ma doesn't make you skilled. Heck on Jung Ma I was clearing 400k a match easily. I hit 330k in freaking huttball that we lost 2-0.

 

The fact that you think AP's damage is spread out is hilariously laughable. They have exactly one aoe attack and that's PFT/PG. The fact the attack on single targets hits for 8k and then hits for 8k for every single person inside your cone of death is a bonus not a downside. Please learn how the skills work before talking next time.

 

Pyro has zero ability to escape when rooted or slowed, that's a loss of mobility. You hit like a wet noodle if your dot is cleansed and someone stands 10 yards away.

 

Assault is kill or be killed. Every semi-decent pyro/assault player knows this. You have no ability to escape. No reduced CC cooldowns, and outside of Energy Rebounder - zero defensive cooldowns worth anything. Don't get me wrong, I like Assault, but Tactics is way more mobile, provides significantly better survival talents, and can easily play in rated.

 

*THis may be why your guild is having trouble in rated.

Edited July 5, 2012 by TheOpf

[kjfett]

This is why 13th company is considered the worst pvp guild on Jung Ma. If you think Assault isn't easy to kill than you haven't been playing that long. Any halfway decent Operative would farm kill you.

 

I have a lvl 50 PT. I have played ever single spec including hybrids. I wrote the bloody AP guide. I was well known as the 2nd best PT on Ajunta Pall before before being forced to transfer to your server. I left the PT because my guild went repub. I could move back to Jung Ma, and farm you for years, but I wanted competition so I left.

 

Norse is AP it's a variation of ap used for survival specs. Assault is easily the squishiest of the three. The fact that you can match the prot of the shield guys in your guild tells me everything I need to know about your shield techs. I know a shield tech who broke 100k in Civil War. I was breaking 70k at lvl 22 on my Juggernaught. Breaking 50k in prot is as an Powertech in a good match is standard for any good PT/Vanguard.

 

Just because you farm baddies in Jung Ma doesn't make you skilled. Heck on Jung Ma I was clearing 400k a match easily. I hit 330k in freaking huttball that we lost 2-0.

 

The fact that you think AP's damage is spread out is hilariously laughable. They have exactly one aoe attack and that's PFT/PG. The fact the attack on single targets hits for 8k and then hits for 8k for every single person inside your cone of death is a bonus not a downside. Please learn how the skills work before talking next time.

 

Pyro has zero ability to escape when rooted or slowed, that's a loss of mobility. You hit like a wet noodle if your dot is cleansed and someone stands 10 yards away.

 

Assault is kill or be killed. Every semi-decent pyro/assault player knows this. You have no ability to escape. No reduced CC cooldowns, and outside of Energy Rebounder - zero defensive cooldowns worth anything. Don't get me wrong, I like Assault, but Tactics is way more mobile, provides significantly better survival talents, and can easily play in rated.

 

*THis may be why your guild is having trouble in rated.

 

Rage much? take 10 and edit that Hate filled drama and we can discuss this class based on experience as adults. If you aren't man enough to own up to your rage dump and hate spewing, then I was my hands of you and wish the next server luck dealing with your attitude.

[bornebol]

Rage much? take 10 and edit that Hate filled drama and we can discuss this class based on experience as adults. If you aren't man enough to own up to your rage dump and hate spewing, then I was my hands of you and wish the next server luck dealing with your attitude.

 

his post contains valid points. yours on the other hand is trying to side-step his points by focusing on his irritation of your post.

 

don't take the thread there, just come back with counter-arguments.

[Vaipyr]

What tank spec are you guys running that you're seeing even marginal success? I've been bummed since the patch because where IF gave me the tools needed to tank in both PvP and PvE, and even survive a 1v1 when played properly (much harder than a dps guy has to play of course, but possible) now I just feel like I'm a free gib for everyone running around while whacking on them with pillows.

 

Before I could run with a healer against 2 dps at a node and during the 2v2 we could come out on top and now it seems that we literally cannot kill even one of the dps before we both get melted (I'm running with the same pocket-healer bud I always have). I tried tactics and it was "ok" but constantly respecc'ing to tank in PvE quite literally drained my creds to hell and back. Finally he asked me to just switch to assault like everyone else and sadly we are able to compete like we used to. With just cycling taunts and peeling we can hold a node 2v2 or 2v3 for wave after wave without any trouble. However we're back to constantly having to cover respec costs for me.

 

I've tried just running my full shield build for PvP and again we're completely ineffective at actually defending anything because there is NO pressure I'm able to put onto anyone besides standard guard/peel/taunting which only lasts for so long.

 

Ranting I know, but I am curious as to what tank spec'd VG's are using now that actually WORKS.

[bornebol]

i think what's needed is a change of mindset if you want to roll SS in PvP. as tank, you're role would be:

 

1. shave off damage incurred by your teammates

2. hold a node long enough until backup arrives

3. interrupt/lockdown enemy healers (interrupt, stun, pull away)

 

you can't have all good things in just one spec i guess is what they want to happen. i think it's reasonable.

 

What tank spec are you guys running that you're seeing even marginal success? I've been bummed since the patch because where IF gave me the tools needed to tank in both PvP and PvE, and even survive a 1v1 when played properly (much harder than a dps guy has to play of course, but possible) now I just feel like I'm a free gib for everyone running around while whacking on them with pillows.

 

Before I could run with a healer against 2 dps at a node and during the 2v2 we could come out on top and now it seems that we literally cannot kill even one of the dps before we both get melted (I'm running with the same pocket-healer bud I always have). I tried tactics and it was "ok" but constantly respecc'ing to tank in PvE quite literally drained my creds to hell and back. Finally he asked me to just switch to assault like everyone else and sadly we are able to compete like we used to. With just cycling taunts and peeling we can hold a node 2v2 or 2v3 for wave after wave without any trouble. However we're back to constantly having to cover respec costs for me.

 

I've tried just running my full shield build for PvP and again we're completely ineffective at actually defending anything because there is NO pressure I'm able to put onto anyone besides standard guard/peel/taunting which only lasts for so long.

 

Ranting I know, but I am curious as to what tank spec'd VG's are using now that actually WORKS.

[Vaipyr]

i think what's needed is a change of mindset if you want to roll SS in PvP. as tank, you're role would be:

 

1. shave off damage incurred by your teammates

2. hold a node long enough until backup arrives

3. interrupt/lockdown enemy healers (interrupt, stun, pull away)

 

you can't have all good things in just one spec i guess is what they want to happen. i think it's reasonable.

 

I get that, though I think a veritable complete inability to win a 1v1 vs another class is always crap, however what I've noticed is:

 

1. I can do easily 50-75k protection via simple taunt cycling on a dps class, along with actually killing people attacking my teammates which drops their damage intake by X (where X is the DPS of the attacker I just sent to respawn). I can also do this longer because as I cycle guard (no I don't just stick it on someone and forget it) I tend to die in moments, regardless of SS spec, IF, or tactics-ion cell build.

 

2. Again, I'm finding myself incapable of doing this due to complete inability to survive and pressure a dps class unless I am also a dps class. Sure my team might get there in time to barely stop the cap as I'm running back from the respawn area but it's a crapshoot half the time. UNLESS I get a pocket healer to stick with me, in which case we still won't kill the DPSers attacking us and it also left the rest of the team short 2 players at the main battle rather than 1. Also that 2nd player was a healer, which is like kicking my team in the balls on top of shortmanning them.

 

3. I agree here, and I can't really complain about the "nuisance" factor. Except that it's only a 'nuisance' factor.

 

Before in this game it actually felt like you could play a tank and not be completely sidelined as the 'oh, ok, I suppose you can go PvP if you like... and are a masochist' like in most MMO's. However lately it just "feels" like I'm playing a spec that has to constantly be babysat and carried for far too little returns when you can have DPS-"Can-tank" classes pull 50-75k prot via taunt cycling alone along with actually helping to clear attackers/defenders from objectives.

 

I suppose I should be use to it, having played a tank in WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion (for a while, grindtastic crap-fest that it was), etc etc. Yet even in those other games there was always a tank spec rising up here and there that was at least semi-viable in PvP and PvE. In WoW TBC era first there was the dual-wield devastate spec. Could get your glad gear, even if you wouldn't go top tier ranking, but it was viable and fun. Then the shield slam crit stacking which was UBER fun and though a total one-trick gimmick allowed you to PvE and PvP. In AoC you could be a pole-guardian and wreck face, in WAR my Chosen could defend himself vs a lone ganker and stand triumphantly over his corpse (and had *****in stance dancing via aura cycling).

 

Again, rant I know. The rum is getting to me. Respecc'd, haven't assigned my talent points, called off my participation with the guild tonight and have just been standing in fleet drinking and trying to figure out *** to do in order to actually have fun again as a tank without feeling like a third wheel gimpy tagalong. Ugh.

[Pistols]

In conclusion...I enjoy killing norse and IF specs...killing them with an AP toss is most satisfying. . /assault

 

Not sure how your rated team works (or if you even run them), but I will never face a 1 vs 1 scenario on my IF Vanguard. If you are going up against peeps like that, I surely wouldn't brag about it. Of course you're going to win that fight, I mean any simpleton can roll assault and win that fight, so I don't think anyone is impressed with your conclusion.

 

While I do feel SS needs some tweaks here and there, I don't feel it's far off as some make it out to be either. The spec, the gear & the player is but some of the material that makes a particular class shine, but the rest comes from your team and the opfor. Not all of us RP-PvP a Fett and think we're badazz cause we wear a helmet when we PvP.

 

In conclusion, we're all glad you're doing what 99% of the rest of the assault specs are doing, and we hope all your 1 on 1 encounters with bads continues to be satisfying for you.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Pistols

[Pistols]

i think what's needed is a change of mindset if you want to roll SS in PvP. as tank, you're role would be:

 

1. shave off damage incurred by your teammates

2. hold a node long enough until backup arrives

3. interrupt/lockdown enemy healers (interrupt, stun, pull away)

 

you can't have all good things in just one spec i guess is what they want to happen. i think it's reasonable.

 

Pretty much this, it's not a difficult job, and I hardly ever worry about the DPS part after the match. My job isn't too burn down targets or to be left alone to solo a node, but to utilize the abilities this tank class can offer. For the most part, my only gripe is with how shield/defense work against combat rolls, I think some changes could be made but overall not too bad. Of all the tank classes out there, we are the red-headed stepchild.

 

I've been pulling around 250k DPS on most of our rateds (minus huttball) with avergae 125k protection. When we get CW or VS, these tend to float upwards depending on the opfor. This one was from tonight, and was a solid match, but I think it's doing ok atm.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Pistols

[bornebol]

I get that, though I think a veritable complete inability to win a 1v1 vs another class is always crap.

 

yeah, lol. somehow i'm just trying to live with it.

 

i just switch back to my sniper if i want to kill stuff

 

all we can do for now is to hope some good changes in future patches. atm, get used to it.

Edited July 6, 2012 by bornebol

[AlyxDinas]

Supercommando should be the set for tanks now, and you should switch guard to whoever is being focused.

 

A bit late on this comment and I've made my thoughts generally known but I still run four piece C.Tech with all the non-essential slots being devoted to Supercommando. Alongside augments that modify by base attack rating, the increased crit chance from the set bonus benefits from some surge modifications. It's not perfect but it can strike a fair balance. I can still last long and hold nodes and if the person/people I'm fighting screw up big time, I can down them. Although that's not necessarily gear/build, to be fair.

Edited July 7, 2012 by AlyxDinas

[Alconos]

Im still doing good as a shield specced vanguard, heck, we even got a damage boost, now when I charge someone, i can use my elemental aoe attack twice for free!