8 man vs. 16 man incentives

[DasHunta]

As of right now, I see no reason to run a 16 man operation...ever. It's the same level gear as the 8 man difficulty equivalent but it just drops more gear? I hate to be the guy that brings up WoW but their system was very effective and gave incentives to run their 25 man version of raids. The gear was better and the hard mode gear was even better than that. It also gave you a sense of "bad-***" when you could sit in a capital area and the 25 man hard mode gear was recognizable. I understand that BW wants this game to appeal to a vast majority of casual players but implementing this system into the current one would do wonders (at least for now) for the hardcore, end game players.

 

This by no means is a /rant on how this game blows and I'll keep running 8 mans 'til I die, I'm just trying to exhaust all possibilities to please the masses.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Berazad]

I'll use WoW as an example (yes I know people hate wow, I dislike it as well)

 

In that game the incentives were almost non existent between 10 and 25 man I believe the only difference was additional loot and that's kinda lame really. I do believe that incentives should exist between 8 - 16 but even if BioWare added it you would most likely end up having 8 man op runners being furious / what not at BioWare.

 

So it could solve one concern but cause others, thanks god I don't have their jobs

Edited June 28, 2012 by Berazad

[VulcanLogic]

I'd rather they add more operations bosses per tier than say, four.

[metalgearyoda]

It seems like a minority of a minority actually raid 16 man.

 

This is in part due to the fact that people don't have many incentives too.

 

But its also because organizing past 6-10 people starts to become difficult.

 

I ran organized two 25man raids a week for a while during some guild strife.

 

It was... such a pain in the *** to get things going. Not because the content was hard but because of the people.

 

Steve didn't want to have to roll against other dps plate so would only raid if mitch wasn't in that raid.

But mitch has work during the second half of the other raid groups night, and since he has the first half of the raid on farm he has flat out told me steve can shove it.

Sara thinks meg is a loot whore and doesn't want to be on vent with her. So the kick rotation is skrewed on the add unless I convince one of them to move to the second night. But that raid group doesn't usually clear the last boss so it has been deemed "b team" and neither of them want to be on it.

 

The number of personal issues between 10 and 25 is exponential.

 

I...

 

I need to like... go take a shower after thinking about it.

[Karasuko]

I loved 25 man raiding, I hated having to deal with the following.

-Reliance on 25 people actually showing up.

-Needing more than 25 people as "raiders"

-Drama over loot

-Having to do both 10 and 25's

-Carrying 10-25% of the raid

 

The benefits were massively outweighed by negatives.

 

SHould they offer some incentive for larger groups? Yes.

WIll it cause a storm in a teacup? Yes

is there a solution to keep both sides of the fence happy? No

[jarjarloves]

It seems like a minority of a minority actually raid 16 man.

 

This is in part due to the fact that people don't have many incentives too.

 

But its also because organizing past 6-10 people starts to become difficult.

 

I ran organized two 25man raids a week for a while during some guild strife.

 

It was... such a pain in the *** to get things going. Not because the content was hard but because of the people.

 

Steve didn't want to have to roll against other dps plate so would only raid if mitch wasn't in that raid.

But mitch has work during the second half of the other raid groups night, and since he has the first half of the raid on farm he has flat out told me steve can shove it.

Sara thinks meg is a loot whore and doesn't want to be on vent with her. So the kick rotation is skrewed on the add unless I convince one of them to move to the second night. But that raid group doesn't usually clear the last boss so it has been deemed "b team" and neither of them want to be on it.

 

The number of personal issues between 10 and 25 is exponential.

 

I...

 

I need to like... go take a shower after thinking about it.

 

Ha kids. In my day we used to run 40 man raids and there was no rolling for loot it was all done with Dragon Kill Points (DKP). You have no idea what pain is.

[Jholiday]

The incentive is bragging rights.. Ive done everything on 8 & 16 .. Its easy to organise and coordinate 8 people. To easy and that why guilds running 8 get no credit at all. I dont think they should either. An example of the difference is the tanks in 16 ec hm.

 

Mechanics

2 off tanks dropping missles entire fight

2 taking huge MT killing debuffs

8 random shield that each need exactly 4 people in them. Your sheld could be behin or infront .. or behind and on side

A tank kiting missile drops from the sky

Thats just what i can remember off hand

 

On 8 man it was just the same shield u run to each time and double destruction debuf .. thats all i remember.

 

As far as gear goes who cares.. its just pixels that u need to make stronger to do harder things .

16 is where the real progression is

[SpacePiglet]

Ha kids. In my day we used to run 40 man raids and there was no rolling for loot it was all done with Dragon Kill Points (DKP). You have no idea what pain is.

 

Uhm, ppl use DKP nowadays too.

No pain.

[SpacePiglet]

I agree with OP.

Because there were a few times we had enough ppl in guild to do 16 man ops. But most of them were asking what's the difference, etc. I told them it's the same just 2x more loots than the 8 man ops.

They said 'uhmm so what's the point?! Isn't it the same just doing 2x 8 man ops?'

Though 16 man is more fun and bonding with guild members.

Most players I know would prefer just to do the 8 man one because like the OP said, not enough incentive...

[Jholiday]

The incentive is being world class. Pre merger your server was lucky to have 1-3 guilds capable of clearing the 16 man content. There were 20 or more that were running 8. I guess being 1 of 20-30 is ok for you maybe.. id rater be top 3

 

Also being able to staff 16 man means an extra boss for u to run..

Nightmare Pilgrim...

More campaign gear

More Blachole gear

More comms

[SpacePiglet]

The gear drop is the same as the 8 man ones.

The 'more' bit is not really 'more'. In a 16 man you just get 2x more gears than the 8 man one.

So doing a two 8 man one is the same.

Guildies did do 16 man ones for fun.

But if we do gear runs, guildies don't feel like doing the 16 man cos it's no incentives for them in terms of gears.

[metalgearyoda]

Ha kids. In my day we used to run 40 man raids and there was no rolling for loot it was all done with Dragon Kill Points (DKP). You have no idea what pain is.

 

I ran those 40 man raids too. BWL, MC, AQ40...

 

However, I wasn't RL during that time.

 

Much easier to just be part of the raid than it is to run it.

[juanni]

I hate carrying other people which is why I love 8-man raiding; it becomes obvious pretty quickly who is not pulling their weight and you can kick their freeloading *** to the curb.

[bwherbert]

I think I have a rather simple solution that would appease both sides of the fence AMAP.

 

Don't change gear stats for 16-man raids. Instead, give people access to the following:

 

-Titles only attained by completing 16 man HM raids

-Mounts

-Different color scheme options for gear and mounts

 

I think this would work well. Everyone knows that if you see a guy on a dark black speeder, he's completed Denova HM. Wouldn't it be cool if 16 man HM vets could get a gold speeder, a black light-saber, or a title like "<Insert Name Here>, God Among Men". In other words...there would be no statistical bonuses to doing 16 man raids but doing so would unlock rewards that would earn you some recognition.