Ratief-Damae Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 OK here I go and I know I'm going to piss a fair few PVP die-hards off. BW needs to remove all PVP gear levels bare one that can be changed visually; but not the stats, through valor rank unlocks that allow the elitist to show off their awesomeness but not gain any advantage other than their own ability to rock at PVP. This will remove all the whining about starting off PVP's in recruit gear and coming up against a full team of WH geared pwners. It will make PVP more enjoyable for the masses, make it easier to maintain and develop for the Devs and also remove any learning curve attributed to PVP gear, modding and comms. I'll admit I feel sorry for new PVP players coming into the fold only to continuously kill them in 3-4 hits over and over again, it must be one of the most annoying things in the game and potentially put people or PVP thus shortening the pool of players to play against. We all want fairer play-styles if your great or bad at PVP, its a game at the end of the day and we all pay to play to have fun. PVP shouldn't just be for the elites... TL;DR Remove all PVP gear tiers and leave just one so everyone can play on an even footing where pure skill shines through the most above all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayme Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I agree with you, however doing what you suggest is probably too late in the game. I think that either making battlemaster gear the new recruit gear or allowing to purchase battlemaster gear before level 50 would be a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 OK here I go and I know I'm going to piss a fair few PVP die-hards off. BW needs to remove all PVP gear levels bare one that can be changed visually; but not the stats, through valor rank unlocks that allow the elitist to show off their awesomeness but not gain any advantage other than their own ability to rock at PVP. This will remove all the whining about starting off PVP's in recruit gear and coming up against a full team of WH geared pwners. It will make PVP more enjoyable for the masses, make it easier to maintain and develop for the Devs and also remove any learning curve attributed to PVP gear, modding and comms. I'll admit I feel sorry for new PVP players coming into the fold only to continuously kill them in 3-4 hits over and over again, it must be one of the most annoying things in the game and potentially put people or PVP thus shortening the pool of players to play against. We all want fairer play-styles if your great or bad at PVP, its a game at the end of the day and we all pay to play to have fun. PVP shouldn't just be for the elites... TL;DR Remove all PVP gear tiers and leave just one so everyone can play on an even footing where pure skill shines through the most above all. Give me Master Strike and GBF while your at it... That would please the masses as well and make the game much more fair for everyone.... SMH. Here we go again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Give me Master Strike and GBF while your at it... That would please the masses as well and make the game much more fair for everyone.... SMH. Here we go again... You're an idiot. The balance you're talking about is class balance, and the whole point of different classes is to have them different. Balance in the sense of gear is different, because it is non-class dependent, non-skill dependent, etc. All gear does is give people who have played longer/grinded more a statistical advantage. Gear allows two of the same class to hit each other with the same move under identical circumstances (Other than the gear ofc) to NOT hit for the same amount. This statistical advantage kills skill, because it doesn't take skill to hit a button in a rotation. It takes more skill (Albeit this game's skillcap is low) to know how to play your class, and have knowledge of how to manipulate the environment using your classes' abilities. Having gear that's statistically better in (Almost if not in) every way takes no skill. TL;DR The only differences in numbers should be due to a different class. The OP is not talking about class balance like you are. Edited June 28, 2012 by Zunayson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You're an idiot. The balance you're talking about is class balance, and the whole point of different classes is to have them different. Balance in the sense of gear is different, because it is non-class dependent, non-skill dependent, etc. All gear does is give people who have played longer/grinded more a statistical advantage. Gear allows two of the same class to hit each other with the same move under identical circumstances (Other than the gear ofc) to NOT hit for the same amount. This statistical advantage kills skill, because it doesn't take skill to hit a button in a rotation. It takes more skill (Albeit this game's skillcap is low) to know how to play your class, and have knowledge of how to manipulate the environment using your classes' abilities. Having gear that's statistically better in (Almost if not in) every way takes no skill. TL;DR The only differences in numbers should be due to a different class. The OP is not talking about class balance like you are. LOL @ you think I am talking about class balance at all... SMH.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Life isnt fair, sports are not fair, and gaming isnt fair. Deal with it, grind out you're gear and get yourself on even ground and quit complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You're an idiot. Please see below since you have a hard time reading between the lines.... Life isnt fair, sports are not fair, and gaming isnt fair. Deal with it, grind out you're gear and get yourself on even ground and quit complaining. Ty Brool.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 So basically you want to be playing guild wars, so you bought and subbed to SWTOR instead and want them to change their game to the guild wars model for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratief-Damae Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 So basically you want to be playing guild wars, so you bought and subbed to SWTOR instead and want them to change their game to the guild wars model for you? I have never played guild wars, never been on their website and not even ever thought about playing the game. So im afraid your wrong on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Friend just hit 50 and had full BM gear in two days. If you save up your ranked / standard coms for when you hit 50, you can easily pick up war hero implants which you won't be wasting coms on in addition to a BM piece of gear and hey.. free recruit gear. Complete the weekly and daily quests. It's rough being in mostly recruit gear but I hear character progression is something appreciated in most MMO's. Once you're in at least BM gear, if you're stil getting waffle stomped repeatedly,... well, it's not necessarily the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiangrump Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Easiest solution is to put several "tiers" of WZs. Let ppl with a mix of recruit/BM face off eachother, and ppl in a mix of BM/WH face off in another tier. Can't believe they can't make the matchmaking system smart enough to make such a split. Of course it'd be bad for those who got recruit gear and bought 1-2 pieces of WH when they hit lv50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalthorr Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 gear progression is important. What they can do is implement tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadiusMaximus Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I could join the NBA, then cry cause everyone is taller and better at it than me . So they make everyone but me play on their knees...and you know what, it won't make me a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratief-Damae Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I could join the NBA, then cry cause everyone is taller and better at it than me . So they make everyone but me play on their knees...and you know what, it won't make me a better player. Your reply makes no sense to the topic I raised. I'm not talking about changing the abilities of players, just that they all play with the same advantages; baring skill. I really don't think one NBA team would be allowed to play with a hover ball; if one ever existed, because they won last years championship, would they? and that's what your reply would reference towards. I'm saying let individual/team skill be the ONE AND ONLY thing that defines the overall skill of players and not in some way due to being a complete and utter unsocial nerd with no mates that can spend 12 hours every day playing in front of a PC and ************ profusely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I have never played guild wars, never been on their website and not even ever thought about playing the game. So im afraid your wrong on all levels. Well lets see what makes more sense, for you to go play the game that is basically what you described or, for everything about SWTOR to change to something completely different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratief-Damae Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Well lets see what makes more sense, for you to go play the game that is basically what you described or, for everything about SWTOR to change to something completely different? If GW2 has their PVP format/structure in the way I described then kudos to them as in the end it makes for a fairer system in which pro players can truly brag they are great. And lets be honest, BW have stated many times that PVP is not their main focus in TOR, thus making the changes I proposed certainly not "for everything about SWTOR to change to something completely different" Edited June 29, 2012 by Ratief-Damae Formating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If GW2 has their PVP format/structure in the way I described then kudos to them as in the end it makes for a fairer system in which pro players can truly brag they are great. And lets be honest, BW have stated many times that PVP is not their main focus in TOR, thus making the changes I proposed certainly not "[i]for everything about SWTOR to change to something completely different[/i]" No it isn't a more fair systen, it is a DIFFERENT system. You can farm all that gear also. You not putting in as much time as the other guy doesn't make it more fair or less fair. We are here becausae we know how SWTOR pvp works, we like it and want it that way. If you want a different type of PvP game they are out there, but to ask to change this game because you want something different that is already out there isn't fair to all the people who are here because they want to play this game the way it is. What you are asking is to fundementally change the entire way PvP works, and the way it works in the vast majority of MMOs. The reason I suggest guild wars is it is a game setup specifically for people that complain about exactly what you are complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NadiusMaximus Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ok, I'll try again. They could completely level the playingfield by handicapping the higher geared players, then it would come down to nothing but skill. That does not increase my skill or decrease theirs. But if they already had more skill than I did in the first place, they would still win. Get both teams to play naked sometime and you'll see that you would probably still loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratief-Damae Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) No it isn't a more fair systen, it is a DIFFERENT system. You can farm all that gear also. You not putting in as much time as the other guy doesn't make it more fair or less fair. We are here becausae we know how SWTOR pvp works, we like it and want it that way. If you want a different type of PvP game they are out there, but to ask to change this game because you want something different that is already out there isn't fair to all the people who are here because they want to play this game the way it is. What you are asking is to fundementally change the entire way PvP works, and the way it works in the vast majority of MMOs. The reason I suggest guild wars is it is a game setup specifically for people that complain about exactly what you are complaining about. Dear fellow I am in full WH gear and personally have no problems putting effort into the game to get there, the suggestion is simply IMO a way to make it fairer for the masses and not just us guys already at the top gear level with a natural advantage. OK here I go and I know I'm going to piss a fair few PVP die-hards off. I'll admit I feel sorry for new PVP players coming into the fold only to continuously kill them in 3-4 hits over and over again, it must be one of the most annoying things in the game and potentially put people or PVP thus shortening the pool of players to play against. I do believe I mentioned that in the OP I guess you thought TL;DR? Edited June 29, 2012 by Ratief-Damae Formating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratief-Damae Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ok, I'll try again. They could completely level the playingfield by handicapping the higher geared players, then it would come down to nothing but skill. That does not increase my skill or decrease theirs. But if they already had more skill than I did in the first place, they would still win. Get both teams to play naked sometime and you'll see that you would probably still loose. And thank you for your reply, your right, Wouldn't you feel better knowing you killed/won on a level playing field with no advantage other than your pure skill? even with losing, no one likes it but it is sure a better pill to sallow when you know they simply are greater players than yourself with no other reason to doubt their abilities. For me it would push me harder to become even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Friend just hit 50 and had full BM gear in two days. If you save up your ranked / standard coms for when you hit 50, you can easily pick up war hero implants which you won't be wasting coms on in addition to a BM piece of gear and hey.. free recruit gear. Complete the weekly and daily quests. It's rough being in mostly recruit gear but I hear character progression is something appreciated in most MMO's. Once you're in at least BM gear, if you're stil getting waffle stomped repeatedly,... well, it's not necessarily the gear. lol waffle stomped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanana Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 If you remove gear disparity from PvP, the PvErs pvping will be unhappy. You'd not want to make them cry, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Dear fellow I am in full WH gear and personally have no problems putting effort into the game to get there, the suggestion is simply IMO a way to make it fairer for the masses and not just us guys already at the top gear level with a natural advantage. ? See that is the thing I don't think you understand what Fair means. It is fair to everyone because we all signed up for THIS game and as long as the rules of THIS game are the same rules that everyone has to follow it is FAIR. What you are asking for isn't a way to make the game more fair, it is a way to change the game to a different type of game, one that already exists and the people who wanted that type of PvP went and played THAT game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) See that is the thing I don't think you understand what Fair means. It is fair to everyone because we all signed up for THIS game and as long as the rules of THIS game are the same rules that everyone has to follow it is FAIR. the is no exclusivity in this game? /sarcasm it warms heart to see the hypocritical carebears shed tears over something imaginary. Edited June 29, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floegens Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 See that is the thing I don't think you understand what Fair means. It is fair to everyone because we all signed up for THIS game and as long as the rules of THIS game are the same rules that everyone has to follow it is FAIR. What you are asking for isn't a way to make the game more fair, it is a way to change the game to a different type of game, one that already exists and the people who wanted that type of PvP went and played THAT game. So what u basically saying is you like grinding gear? Im full war hero and i would LOVE to have everyone in even gear, cos i hate stomping recruit geared players in 3 gcds. More competition, yes pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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