SajmanPeetee Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 MMOs putting restrictions on the amount of players that can participate on an encounter is what has killed community. Bad players with good attitudes have been pushed away because it's too much of a burden to try and carry them through content. Before when there were no caps, bad players could come and if they died it was okay since there were an infinite number of spots. Now bad players have to sit out which segragates them and ultimately makes them quit. Thats why all you see in todays modern mmos is good players and bad players that think theyre good. The bad players that know they are bad are gone, forever burried by a genre that places difficulty above enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 While the OP makes some good points he also doesnt seem to understand reality. I agree with some things you say like bosses that are VERY difficult and have tasks that are VERY challenging, but at the same time I understand the "casual" side of the game. I am married, have children, work, go to school etc. Should I be excluded from MMO's to sate your epeen? Game companies say "No." I was at one point "hardcore" I played A LOT had plenty of top endgame gear, very rare equipment etc but that was years ago. The truth is the target audience for these games are typically ages 18-35. While a very minor portion of that has the time to be "hardcore" the vast majority work, have families, go to school etc. Gamers are aging, people who have money to pay for subscriptions typically have to work and in the current economy typically work a lot. While I do understand the distaste for "faceroll" content these companies have to find a balance that suits the widest array of players to keep the game profitable. Why would they spend millions on a game with a very small profit margin just to keep a handful of "hardcore" players happy when they could make a game thats for a broader audience and make a much much much larger profit. Simple economics. Now onto this whole "hardcore" and "casual" nonsense. What do you think is a "hardcore" player and a "casual" player. Even with my busy life I tend to get at least 20 hours a week of play time in if not more. I consider myself fairly casual. I know that there are some who call themselves "hardcore" that will spend over 100 hours per week in game. Theres only 168 hours in a week, thats a HUGE portion of time, and if you take out sleeping 6 hours a night that leaves122 hours. Therefore in order to play 100 hours a week you have to only work part time, sleep less than 8 hours and literally spend all your time not working or sleeping playing. MOST people do NOT do this. So think about the reality of it. I agree things should be more challenging and there should be things in game for hardcore and casual players but the problem youll have is people whine, at extreme length, when they feel segregated. Welcome to the modern world of "I deserve, I want, I need, everything that everyone else has that I dont" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonovsam Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 What's killing the community is the reduction in group and raid size and shoehorning every character into 1 of 3 roles (healer, tank, dps). IMO, EverQuest had the right formula. For groups and raid sizes, groups were 6 people and raids had 72 people. A lot of people look at that raid size and think "OMG, You could never get enough people for that!" Yes, you can. We did it in EQ BEFORE there existed the plethora of tools there are today. The problem with the reduction of raid sizes from 72->56->40->25/10->16/8 is two fold: 1) you end up with a lot of little guilds that have extremely short life spans and small rosters with undependable people. When raid sizes were larger, guilds were huge; you could always count on having more than enough people to meet the needs for a successful raid. 2) Boss mechanics become severely limited due to lack of people to achieve ancillary goals. For an example, look at the Plane of Time and Dragons of Norrath raids in EQ. Character Roles Every game is falling into the trap of limiting roles to Tank, Healer, or DPS. Those are great for primary focus, but there is a third aspect of Utility. For example, in EQ, you had Bards that could provide very limited raid buffs, pulling, CC, and corpse retrieval (you didn't rez with your gear, you had to recover your corpse). There were necromancers that provided damage and gave mana to healers. There were druids that provided healing and kiting. Due to a lack of utility abilities, fight mechanics become one-note and bland. For another example, look at the Kessdona The Enlightened fight in EQ: you needed a ranger, bard, or druid with skill in Tracking to track a specific mob to kill. Kill the wrong one and you make the fight harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im a casual gamer and have been for years... You clearly have no idea what a casual gamer is. I have always found that hardcore gamers are ruder and much more arrogant than casual gamers. I would say elitism kills and seperates communities. Casual gamers just wantto have fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakinor Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im a casual gamer and have been for years... You clearly have no idea what a casual gamer is. I have always found that hardcore gamers are ruder and much more arrogant than casual gamers. I would say elitism kills and seperates communities. Casual gamers just wantto have fun... This. I think definition one is about right to the TRUE meaning of it : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hardcore+gamer. In this case me, and a lot of people I know are "hardcore gamers" but I have notice that in MMOs most self proclaimed "hardcores" are elitists, rude, arrogant, pompus, etc. This thread is an exaggerated example of what "hardcore" mmo players believe themselves to be: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=479649 If you believe your more deserving than other players simply because you are more "hardcore" then I would have to say your arrogant, pompous, and have an extremely high sense of entitlement and would simply advise you get over yourself. If you consider yourself "hardcore" because you would like more challenge or a higher quality content then I would have to agree with you most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 They are usually not very skilled.... This shows how little the op actually knows about casual gamers. Im a tank in our casual guild. We raid hardmodes twice a week and are doing nightmare modes as well. Everyone is in pretty much full rakata gear etc and we dont wipe. If you need to devote 8 hours a day to be skilled at a game then you are obviously not as skilled as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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