Shadow - Reworked

[Xinika]

All values are X. So the numbers are more than changeable.

(This means that the gains can simply be looked as 5% or 100%, take your pick. Judge based on the CORE ability and not the numbers presented.)

 

I want your opinions and your own ideas on this. Not just mine but reworking the Shadow class to better it.

Hopefully this can be a community effort.

 

 

 

Shadow

- Shadow Strike's force cost has been reduced to 25.

- Whirling Blow's force cost reduced to 30 and it's damage increased by 20%.

 

Kinetic

- Rapid Recovery reworked. This talent now increases all healing done to and from you by 7.5%/15%.

- Expertise reworked. Now reduces the force cost of all abilities by 3/6/9.

- Kinetic Ward now affects all types of damage. Not just white.

 

Infiltration

- Infiltration Tactics no longer reduces the force cost of Shadow Strike.

- Shadowy Veil reworked. This talent now gives a flat 10/20% chance to avoid all attacks.

- Security Breach reworked. This talent increases the damage done from Force Breach by 20%.

- Vigor reworked. This talent now increases force regeneration by 20%.

- Shadow Technique reworked. Instead of a chance to proc internal damage, this technique now allows all

your attacks to cause an additional 10% internal damage. (So this applies to everything. Melee and casting.)

- Profundity reworked. (5/5) Project and Shadow Strike now give a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on

Force Breach and reduces it's force cost by 50% if used within 6 seconds.

- Twin Disciplines and Situational Awareness have traded places.

- Exit Strategy has been removed and replaced by Clairvoyant Strike.

- Clairvoyant Strike has been changed. Instead of Project, this ability now increases the damage done from

Shadow Strike by 30% and allows Shadow Strike to bypass all defenses. (Parry/Damage Reduction effects)

Only 1 stack allowed.

- Deep Impact reworked. (5/5) Now increases the damage done from Project, Force Breach and Shadow Strike

by 30%.

- New ability for 31-tier talent.

Shadow Charge -

Vanish into the shadows and appear next to your opponent, removing all movement impairing effects. For the

next 2 sec all damage taken is reduced by 60% and your Shadow Strike's chance to land a critical hit is

increased by 50%.

 

Balance

- Force Focus changed. The damage gained to Force Technique's Breach effect has been increased to

16%/32%.(1/2)

- Pinning Resolve now affects player targets.

- Focused Insight's healing increased to 2%. (2/2)

- Force in Balance's force cost has been reduced by 25.

- Mental Potency now reduces the cooldown on Force in Balance by 2.5/5 sec.

- Adjudication changed. The critical hit damage now applies to all melee abilities.

- Situational Awareness now also reduces damage taken whilst using Deflection by 20%.

- Sever Force's overall damage has been increased by 20%.

 

 

So basically Infil got reworked to be more free'd of the Project>Breach combo. Now SS is a viable ability to use regardless of it's proc. This give the spec more flexibility and less predictability. The changes also give the spec more stable damage and a chance to have something inbetween the burst is over. The spec has been toned to switch over from extreme burst to stable burst. The survivability has also been increased.

 

Balance had to receive some changes to increase it's damage to make up for the loss of Twin Disc. In addition, I find the healing on the tree could've been buffed to help it's survivability.

 

KC, not too many but finally something to help scale the healing and make KW useful in PvP.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Xinika

[shopach]

I think I like most of this, especially the changes to shadowy veil and vigor, which directly addresses some of infiltration's most notable drawbacks (survivability and resource management). The others seem good, though from a personal standpoint I'm not a huge fan of positional mechanics (shadow strike from the rear), so emphasizing that further would make the play a bit more tedious for me.

 

One thing of note that I've seen others mention is the possibility of having one of infiltration's skills take force slow off the global cooldown to improve mobility/control issues.

[teremx]

Um, only problem i see are 10K shadow strikes with everything you're doing to it. (although i do agree and see that you want it to be the big hitter of Inf.)

 

The FiB changes would be good. I would make Clairvoyant an entirely different attack than double strike.

 

Clairvoyant Strike: Strikes your Target for 1500 damage and shreds armor, increases armor penetration by 2%, stacks up to five times. (Armor Pen would be a buff on you) 3-6 second CD

Edited June 13, 2012 by teremx

[Xinika]

Um, only problem i see are 10K shadow strikes with everything you're doing to it. (although i do agree and see that you want it to be the big hitter of Inf.)

 

The FiB changes would be good. I would make Clairvoyant an entirely different attack than double strike.

 

Clairvoyant Strike: Strikes your Target for 1500 damage and shreds armor, increases armor penetration by 2%, stacks up to five times. (Armor Pen would be a buff on you)

 

Yes, less dependency on project/breach and making a melee class MORE of a melee class. Project won't hit as hard, so the damage overall shifted over from being a primary caster/melee to more of a melee archetype. So the burst will mainly be from SS instead of Project/Breach. The changes also makes the spec less predictable and more free to use other abilities.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Xinika

[teremx]

Yes, less dependency on project/breach and making a melee class MORE of a melee class. Project won't hit as hard, so the damage overall shifted over from being a primary caster/melee to more of a melee archetype. So the burst will mainly be from SS instead of Project/Breach. The changes also makes the spec less predictable and more free to use other abilities.

 

I agree, project would be used once in a blue moon for Twin Dis. Oh and by the way, the spec i made was a stones throw from the 0/13/28 hybrid..., but i was playing more as a melee type. It has gotten pretty stale, that's why I suggested to make Clairvoyant an entirely different melee attack.

 

EDIT: I know we want to tack things onto abilities so that we have an incentive to use a variety of them, but we would not want to create a large ramp up time before we get everything rolling, that's what balance is for.

Edited June 13, 2012 by teremx

[NeverRose]

Lower cd on Force Cloak for infil please?

[Damastes]

I can only really speak with any sort of coherence about the Infiltration tree; so, all subsequent thoughts are related to it. I'll also refrain from discussing values/variables, not only because it isn't my job to try to balance the game, but because I don't have nearly the amount of knowledge necessary to do so

 

I'd say two of the most defining aspects of an infiltration shadow are--or should be--stealth and (shared with the other trees) our double-bladed lightsabers. I don't feel like either of those aspects are emphasized in any meaningful way, and I'd like to see that change.

 

I see a lot of redundancy in this tree, and the lack of creativity bugs me. Clairvoyant Strike is just an improved version of Double Strike with a better animation: No one uses Double Strike again after acquiring it, for obvious reasons. All that really had to be done was make the top talent improve Double Strike, but that isn't my point: It's more of the same. Or how about Low Slash, a nice skill with different values from Force Stun, and weaker, but still a skill without any creativity applied to it: It's just another 4-second control. My pulse is racing. (Please keep in mind I am not speaking about how useful these abilities are in their current forms. They are very useful.)

 

Then there's Shadow Technique. When I think of shadows, I think of stealth. This technique has nothing to do with stealth--unless you count the fact that it doesn't break stealth when you activate it.

 

Now, I understand that we are sharing stealth with other classes, and that is likely the reason why we have so little to do when actually in Stealth. So, it's a shame, but I can live with it. But what puzzles me is how they can look at Darth Maul as an inspiration for our class and not see that giving us double-bladed lightsabers could be an interesting way to make us more than a single-target class (without madly switching targets left and right, that is). Maul's epic battle involved him fighting two Jedi at once, and being an annoying little bastard while doing it. I don't mean we could be a mass AOE class, but even just a dual-target class that deals damage sprinkled with a bit of annoyance (more built-in than it is now) would be an improvement.

 

Let me give some examples. Low Slash, at the moment a boringly redundant skill, could stun one target and slow another. Clairvoyant Strike, also boringly redundant right now, could hit two targets rather than one. In keeping with the "bit of annoyance" part of the previous paragraph, the second target could suffer low damage and some debuff (lowered accuracy, a DoT, I don't much care). Balance that however you wish, but make it more interesting!

 

What it comes down to is I don't have a very good sense of identity as an infiltration shadow at this point in time. I'm a shadow living outside of shadows, wielding a double-bladed lightsaber as if it was a single-bladed lightsaber.

[Occu_lus]

Problem with these changes is that infiltration would be extremely overpowered afterwards. There are loads of problems with both dps specs but that's mainly survivability, not the damage.

What would happen is that you could 2-3 Shot your opponents and that isn't balanced either. Force Breach would hit for about 6k+ with an extremely high chance of having it's CD reset.

 

I think the idea of having Shadowy Veil reworked is absolutely neccessary.

The changes to Rapid Recovery, however, should be in one of the dps-trees and limited to shadow technique and force technique. Kinetic does not need to be buffed at all.

 

The balance changes are quite alright. However, i would like to see a lower GCD on DoT-abilities (0.5 sec instead of 1 sec) when using force technique to make the spec more viable in PvP (otherwise there'll still be a lack of pressure-potential)

[Spiili]

All values are X. So the numbers are more than changeable.

I want your opinions and your own ideas on not just mine but reworking the Shadow class to better it.

Hopefully this can be a community effort.

 

 

 

Shadow

- Shadow Strike's force cost has been reduced to 25.

- Whirling Blow's force cost reduced to 30 and it's damage increased by 20%.

 

Kinetic

- Rapid Recovery reworked. This talent now increases all healing done to and from you by 7.5%/15%.

- Expertise reworked. Now reduces the force cost of all abilities by 3/6/9.

- Kinetic Ward now affects all types of damage. Not just white.

 

Infiltration

- Infiltration Tactics no longer reduces the force cost of Shadow Strike.

- Shadowy Veil reworked. This talent now gives a flat 10/20% chance to avoid all attacks.

- Security Breach reworked. This talent increases the damage done from Force Breach by 20%.

- Vigor reworked. This talent now increases force regeneration by 20%.

- Shadow Technique reworked. Instead of a chance to proc internal damage, this technique now allows all

your attacks to cause an additional 10% internal damage. (So this applies to everything. Melee and casting.)

- Profundity reworked. (5/5) Project and Shadow Strike now give a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on

Force Breach and reduces it's force cost by 50% if used within 6 seconds.

- Twin Disciplines and Situational Awareness have traded places.

- Exit Strategy has been removed and replaced by Clairvoyant Strike.

- Clairvoyant Strike has been changed. Instead of Project, this ability now increases the damage done from

Shadow Strike by 30% and allows Shadow Strike to bypass all defenses. (Parry/Damage Reduction effects)

Only 1 stack allowed.

- Deep Impact reworked. (5/5) Now increases the damage done from Project, Force Breach and Shadow Strike

by 30%.

- New ability for 31-tier talent.

Shadow Charge -

Vanish into the shadows and appear next to your opponent, removing all movement impairing effects. For the

next 2 sec all damage taken is reduced by 60% and your Shadow Strike's chance to land a critical hit is

increased by 50%.

 

Balance

- Force Focus changed. The damage gained to Force Technique's Breach effect has been increased to

16%/32%.(1/2)

- Pinning Resolve now affects player targets.

- Focused Insight's healing increased to 2%. (2/2)

- Force in Balance's force cost has been reduced by 25.

- Mental Potency now reduces the cooldown on Force in Balance by 2.5/5 sec.

- Adjudication changed. The critical hit damage now applies to all melee abilities.

- Situational Awareness now also reduces damage taken whilst using Deflection by 20%.

- Sever Force's overall damage has been increased by 20%.

 

I think all of the above (Taken as a whole) are unreasonable requests. The Class is fine as it is, it's well balanced, and soon to be even better balanced by the upcoming nerf to hybrids. Don't let your popularity get to your head Xinika.

[anstalt]

Whilst you are pretty much the highest contributor to the shadow class Xinika, I do think you often lack both objectiveness and an obvious goal. You want to make the shadow class better. Great, me too! But better compared to what? Where do you see us compared to other classes? What are our weaknesses and how do you see us overcoming them with your changes?

 

Most of these changes seem to be designed to do one thing: make us overpowered. Whilst I love being overpowered, its always followed by a nerf, so I'd rather we were just balanced from the start.

 

My following comments are all based on infiltration as that is my love and where most of my experience lies.

 

So, existing problems, as I see them, that currently face the Infiltration spec in both pvp and pve:

 

1) It is hard to sustain DPS over time

2) In a PvE environment, we bring no group utility at all

3) In a PvP environment, we lack survivability

 

Those are the biggies imo. Following that, there is the playstyle discussion: melee versus force, no signature move etc.

 

 

Shadow

- Shadow Strike's force cost has been reduced to 25.

- Whirling Blow's force cost reduced to 30 and it's damage increased by 20%.

 

 

The change to whirling blow is nice and might actually mean we can AoE and be useful! However, this is more of a "quality of life" improvement as, lets face it, we don't ever really need AoE, its just nice to have. Reducing shadow strike's force cost is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, great, lowered cost is always nice. On the other hand, it removes it from being an infiltration special skill and just makes it a standard skill for the whole shadow class. Given that Kinetic is tanking tree, Balance is force/dot tree, I'd rather keep shadow strike as an Infiltration specialisation. I also believe it would remove some of the skill of the class: if you don't have to watch for the proc then you can basically spam it without force being an issue. Given the skill has no cooldown currently, your rotation might get reduced to "SS - SS - SS - FB - regen - repeat".

 

 

Infiltration

- Infiltration Tactics no longer reduces the force cost of Shadow Strike.

 

With the proc no longer reducing force cost, this proc just becomes increased armour penetration. Whilst that remains a good thing, its also expensive for 3 skill points. If you keep the reduced cost, then i think this skill should permanently increase armour pen of SS by 50%, not just on proc.

 

- Shadowy Veil reworked. This talent now gives a flat 10/20% chance to avoid all attacks.

 

Too powerful but nice idea. However, given that this is a tier 1 talent you need to reconsider (unless you keep it restricted to shadow technique). If anyone can use this talent, then it becomes a must have for all specs, and if that is the case then it is overpowered. Best to move this further up the tree or keep it restricted to shadow technique. However, I'd prefer a flat damage reduction rather than avoidance, but I guess avoidance fits with the class design.

 

- Security Breach reworked. This talent increases the damage done from Force Breach by 20%.

 

Probably wont have much effect on overall damage (it'll do more damage, but you use it less often) so not sure I understand the point of it. I guess it makes rotation easier (less FBs) and upfront burst in pvp greater.

 

- Vigor reworked. This talent now increases force regeneration by 20%.

 

By switching vigor to increased force regen, you a) make it compulsory but b) also have an easy way to alter infiltration DPS. 20% more force regen basically means 20% more damage. This would mean the devs can fiddle around with everything else to get the playstyle right, and then if our damage is too high/low then they can just edit this value. So, whilst 20% is way overpowered, i think a change to regen is the right way to go.

 

- Shadow Technique reworked. Instead of a chance to proc internal damage, this technique now allows all

your attacks to cause an additional 10% internal damage. (So this applies to everything. Melee and casting.)

 

This is basically a straight up DPS boost of 10%. Given all the other changes, I don't think this is particularly necessary. Whilst the current form of shadow technique is basically useless, what you've suggested is definitely overpowered. Instead, how about shadow technique changes the damage type of shadow strike and spinning strike to internal? So, they can still be defended against, but if you hit then the damage is basically unmitigated. That would fit with the design/ethos that the infiltration is supposed to be sneaky, bypass armour etc whilst not actually boosting us too much (mainly would allow us to kill tanks easier in pvp).

 

- Profundity reworked. (5/5) Project and Shadow Strike now give a 30% chance to reset the cooldown on

Force Breach and reduces it's force cost by 50% if used within 6 seconds.

 

This change goes against your later statement of wanting to make the class more melee orientated. Whilst overpowered, the change would help make the class more complex in terms of rotation, something which feels needed in pve.

 

- Twin Disciplines and Situational Awareness have traded places.

 

Replacing one poor talent with another. If we got the change to whirling blow (lower force cost, higher damage) I'd actually prefer Situational Awareness! You could actually spec to do decent-ish AoE damage.

 

- Exit Strategy has been removed and replaced by Clairvoyant Strike.

- Clairvoyant Strike has been changed. Instead of Project, this ability now increases the damage done from

Shadow Strike by 30% and allows Shadow Strike to bypass all defenses. (Parry/Damage Reduction effects)

Only 1 stack allowed.

 

Kind of cancels out infiltration tactics if the proc bypasses 100% armour....

 

Needless to say, this is overpowered. A cumulative effect of the changes would be that our rotation would become CS - SS - FB on proc. You'd never need anything else as these three skills would cover everything.

 

- Deep Impact reworked. (5/5) Now increases the damage done from Project, Force Breach and Shadow Strike

by 30%.

 

Again, infiltration shadows aren't *that* far behind other classes in terms of sustained DPS. This would be too big.

 

- New ability for 31-tier talent.

Shadow Charge -

Vanish into the shadows and appear next to your opponent, removing all movement impairing effects. For the

next 2 sec all damage taken is reduced by 60% and your Shadow Strike's chance to land a critical hit is

increased by 50%.

 

Great skill and I know you've been championing this kind of skill pretty much since launch. This would be a true class-defining skill. It would have very little effect in pve but in pvp it would go a long way to increasing mobility. However, given how defining it is, it needs to go hand in hand with a proper, well thought out definition of the tree which at the moment you are lacking. Such a skill is mainly useful for getting immediately in to the back lines and taking out healers / ranged DPS, however many of the skill changes are calling for more internal damage / armour bypassing which makes me think tank-killer.

 

 

Even after all of this, though, we would remain inferior in pve as we have no group utility! Assuming our DPS is brought equal to the top DPS (i.e. sentinels), we still lack the utility to encourange bringing us. Off-tanking is worthless in a boss fight where you'll get 1 or 2 shotted. Snaring is useless in PvE as bosses are immune. Our CC is uselss in boss fights. We need an armour debuff / boss debuff of some sort to help ensure our place in raids.

 

I wont go in to too much detail of the changes I'd like, just general outline:

 

Goal of class - be more melee orientated than now whilst remaining bursty. Our speciality should be ranged DPS and healers, i.e. the back lines.

 

General Changes for Infiltration spec:

 

1) Increase shadow strikes base damage by a significant amount. This needs to be our bread and butter skill, our backstab, requiring skill in pvp to use.

 

2) CS increases force breach damage, not project, and we get lower FB cd. However, the buff to FB from the proc should be on a short timer. This would allow us to ramp up damage and get great burst, but countered by CC / kiting so buff would run out before we could use FB.

 

3) Shadow Charge Skill - allows us to port to the enemy back lines. Would probably include a 2s root on the enemy along with some damage to allow for lag whilst using the skill.

 

4) New Skill - Destroy Armour - low damage spammable armour debuff. Against clothies this wouldn't be needed but this would give us useful utility in pve raids. Would also help against tanks in pvp.

 

 

So, typical attack scenario in pvp would be: stealth to edge of fight, select target (healer), shadow charge, big burst damage (shadow strike, cs, force breach, spinning), force cloak away. In between force cloaks etc, you have taunts and armour debuffs, some CC/snares for utility and still decent sustained damage with shadow strike / cs / force breach. Project would become useless for this spec so with two new skills, it would be very melee orientated. Force management would still be hard but with increased shadow strike / force breach damage we would equal sentinels for damage and also have the armour debuff for utility. We'd still be squishy in pvp but thats a good tradeoff for shadow charge skill imo.

[arkzehhh]

I think all of the above (Taken as a whole) are unreasonable requests. The Class is fine as it is, it's well balanced, and soon to be even better balanced by the upcoming nerf to hybrids. Don't let your popularity get to your head Xinika.

 

Lol'd, Infil need's a massive survivability buff & a rework of the talent tree, fact.

[Pumpp]

I like the new "shadowstep" ability and I think that it's something that the devs have played around with internally because the animation is in the game on a few mobs. As long as the CD on it was 20 secs or less I think we have a winner. I would like to see CS grants stacks of Force Breach so that after 2-3 CS you would be sitting at 5 stacks for a huge Force Breach. This would allow CS and Force Breach to work more like a combo point system as seen in other games. That being said I also liked the idea of CS granting a buff to Shadow Strike, but would like to see that stack to 2 instead of 1 just to avoid dancing between the two abilities during a fight. I would be happy either way. As long as we are brain-stormingI would take Low Slash and switch it with Stasis as I feel Stasis seems to fit more in line with the Infiltration tree anyway. Low Slash just seems better suited to the the tank tree as a way to control multiple mobs, I enjoy having it as Infiltration but without a lower CD "kidney shot" like ability low slash just doesn't mix well with the rest of the tree IMO.

[ownageiminent]

I really like the changes to Kinetic and Balance. However i worry about some of the infiltration changes being too OP, and i play as a 50 sin.

 

I think that Shadow Strike should be kept at the current force cost and have the proc still reduce it, as infil is supposed to be the backstabbing spec and a tank shouldn't be running around backstabbing people for massive damage. The change to Shadowy Vail is good, as we really lack in survivability, DPS is alright.

The Vigor may need to be re-looked at, 20% force regen is alot more, which means im using more skills which may equate to too much dps( i dont know the formulas for this is all im offering is opinion, not fact).

 

Im actually alright which the rework for Shadow Technique, it would help in both PvP and PvE. I wont comment on The Twin Disiplines move as im not sure what it does,(not showing up on Torhead >.>). Instead of getting rid of Exit Strategy maybe make it do more dmg, but less stacks on it? Also maybe switch Exit Strategy with Situational Awarnesses spot and remove Situational Awarness, that way Clairvoyance Strike can still be moved.

 

I like the Clairvoyant Strike proc change, especially if the proc that decreases Shadow Strikes force cost is kept. Also i really like the idea of your new skill, it really would show off the assassin infil spec as truly being what it should be.

 

P.S: New project animation??? Currently biased towards assassins.

Edited June 13, 2012 by ownageiminent

[Xinika]

OP Updated.

 

I really like the changes to Kinetic and Balance. However i worry about some of the infiltration changes being too OP, and i play as a 50 sin.

 

I think that Shadow Strike should be kept at the current force cost and have the proc still reduce it, as infil is supposed to be the backstabbing spec and a tank shouldn't be running around backstabbing people for massive damage. .

 

Problem with this philosophy is that it's happening right now. See: 31/2/8 for example (My armoury.)

 

Slowly editing this post throughout the night lol.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Xinika

[ownageiminent]

Problem with this philosophy is that it's happening right now. See: 31/2/8 for example (My armoury.)

 

True. How about moving it up the skill tree by switching with Subduing Techniques. That way it will still be a infil skill, and then the other specs can get a better slow.

[Spiili]

Lol'd, Infil need's a massive survivability buff & a rework of the talent tree, fact.

 

Infiltration is spike damage you nonse, of course survivability is poor. Talent tree is fine.

[Xinika]

Infiltration is spike damage you nonse, of course survivability is poor. Talent tree is fine.

 

This couldn't be further from the truth.

[Spiili]

This couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I have no argument against it, it works perfectly for me, if I was greedy I'd ask for more Armour Penantration, but I'm happy with it as is.

[Boarg]

All values are X. So the numbers are more than changeable.

(This means that the gains can simply be looked as 5% or 100%, take your pick. Judge based on the CORE ability and not the numbers presented.)

 

I want your opinions and your own ideas on this. Not just mine but reworking the Shadow class to better it.

Hopefully this can be a community effort.

 

<ability/skill lists>

 

So basically Infil got reworked to be more free'd of the Project>Breach combo. Now SS is a viable ability to use regardless of it's proc. This give the spec more flexibility and less predictability. The changes also give the spec more stable damage and a chance to have something inbetween the burst is over. The spec has been toned to switch over from extreme burst to stable burst. The survivability has also been increased.

 

Balance had to receive some changes to increase it's damage to make up for the loss of Twin Disc. In addition, I find the healing on the tree could've been buffed to help it's survivability.

 

KC, not too many but finally something to help scale the healing and make KW useful in PvP.

 

Pretty interesting stuff…

 

Like you said, all numbers are just placeholders, so I assume your intent is they be adjusted towards the result being fairly balanced specs.

 

Unlike others, I don't think you're intending to be biased and produce OP specs to play.

 

So, I'm looking at the big picture here on how the specs would play (especially the Infiltration makeover) and be functionally different than now.

 

 

It seems to me like the goals here are:

 

1. Make the dps specs less squishy.

 

2. Make Shadow Strike more useful and have more emphasis across the board.

 

3. Make the dps specs more competitive with other classes for sustained damage, especially Infiltration which is one of the worst PvE specs for sustained damage.

 

4. Make Infiltration attractive enough in PvP to make most players seriously consider it over Kinetic and Hybrid specs. (Making Infiltration damage more adaptable helps here.)

 

 

If those are your goals, it seems like you're probably getting there overall. And they are good goals.

 

 

The main questions for me end up being about what your intentions are on damage/force for the various Infiltration attacks after they all shake out. It seems like Shadow Strike could end up being the best attack, especially after using one Clairvoyant Strike. Force Breach would probably a top item with your new proc/reset, too. So, the tricky thing in terms of balance is keeping it from being "too good" compared to the other attacks. It could end up that pure SS spam is highest dps and sustained damage, and that's a problem because the ability has no CD. It could be the best after using one CS to buff it up - especially in PvP…so then people might end up playing it just CS-SS-CS-SS-CS-SS-CS-SS….if they can in 4m and positional anyway. So, I guess the delicate balance would need to be that Project w/ 2x Circling Shadows and Force Breach would still need to be better than CS-SS combo while CS-SS is still a solid dps alternative that sets up the yellow attacks.

 

A couple of things that might be issues… It seems that Bioware purposely limited how much any spec relies on positionals for overall dps. Currently, we only use a positional every ~13s or so…so, if a PvE fight or something flat out doesn't allow for consistent positionals or the game bugs on positionals (sadly very common in PvE and PvP as well but it's better disguised there with server desync and stuff) then the loss of overall damage is minor instead of catastrophic. Personally, I like using positionals IF I get rewarded for it. However, if a spec has to use a bunch of positionals just to keep on par with every other spec, that's a bad spec. If a spec rewards extra skill and effort with above average results, then it's potentially a good spec. Although, I'm not sure Bioware wants to go that route with lots of positionals let alone reward people for it. If they even put it in, we might be looking at all stick and no carrot.

 

Another thing that might be an issue is the spec actually having too many big hitters too often. That can be balanced just fine, but ability damage ends up having to get cut down to pretty mediocre numbers. If nearly every GCD hits hard, then nearly every GCD can't hit for more than 3k and still be balanced. For example, a lot of WoW specs (such as Arms Warrior) had/have this problem…the specs feel very bland because every ability hits for the same and feels interchangable with any of the others. It can also result in terrible burst, because nothing can actually hit really hard by itself and still result in balanced sustained damage.

 

So, I'm just wondering what your intentions were on which abilities are supposed to be "really good" and whats "kinda good" and what's just low damage setup, etc. On a tangent, it might be nice if Infiltration got more synergy out of Saber Strike to make it feel more productive…maybe let it refresh Force Slow or provide a little incremental cooldown reduction or something.

[Spiili]

I really fail to see what the problem is with the current infiltration spec, the damage is good.

 

The rotation is fine too; Spinning Kick > Shadow Strike > Clairvoyant Strike(2) > Project > Breach, instead of what seems like a Clairvoyant Strike > Shadow Strike in constant rotation.

 

I like the idea of Exit Strategy too, as it means the longer you engage a shadow the harder he's going to hit.

 

They need to nerf Force Potency in my opinion.

[teremx]

I really fail to see what the problem is with the current infiltration spec, the damage is good.

 

The rotation is fine too; Spinning Kick > Shadow Strike > Clairvoyant Strike(2) > Project > Breach, instead of what seems like a Clairvoyant Strike > Shadow Strike in constant rotation.

 

I like the idea of Exit Strategy too, as it means the longer you engage a shadow the harder he's going to hit.

 

They need to nerf Force Potency in my opinion.

 

You're either trolling or a casual to have no problem with the current Inf. Every PvP post on the forums is "what TANK spec should i choose?", and not "what spec should i choose?". So if there is not a problem, why is everyone going tank spec? Is tank spec more fun? Still a problem. Is it easier to play? That's a problem. (although it's not easier compared to Inf.) Bioware must be able to monitor or count what specs people are playing in PvP, and if they are not they should start, because it would show that most PvPing shadows are tanks.

 

Another thing, the posters after my other posts took the proposed ideas as a WHOLE. Do not do that. These should be ideas of what could happen, should happen, and what would be fair or unfair as a class. Xinika merely gave us ideas and asked us what we want to see to fix a mundane, predictable Infiltration build, and a lackluster Balance build. So instead of saying "your ideas would make us too OP, get out", give your reasons, and ideas to improve things.

Edited June 13, 2012 by teremx

[Pumpp]

Dreaming of a more rogue like Shadow/Assassin:

 

CS- each hit reduces the damage of Project by X and increases the stun duration on Player targets by 2.5 seconds. Stacks 2 times. Secondary effect: CS grants 2 charges of Exit Strategy stacking up to 4 increasing the damage of your next Force Breach by X.

 

This would make CS a "combo point" builder that allows us to do damage or create a 5 second stun, which coupled with a lower force costing Shadow Strike makes for an interesting rotation.

[Soull]

one of the biggest problems inf shadows have in pvp is being kited (IMO). force speed isn't enough on its own (unless you're spec'd KC). force stun is useful once. force slow, if you're kited out of its range, is useless. so......

 

give us back force pull as a standard ability for all shadows/sins like it was in beta. it'll help a bit with utility in pvp.

 

increase the range of force slow (longer than the stalker set bonus).

 

give us that 31 point talent you suggested. its funny how npc's that use that move, its called shadow strike.

 

put mind over matter in the inf tree. or tier 1 in KC.

 

not all of these are needed. but 1 or 2 would be nice. especially force pull. it was there in beta, give it back.

[Spiili]

give us back force pull as a standard ability for all shadows/sins like it was in beta. it'll help a bit with utility in pvp.

 

YES!, I love force Pull lol, Voidstar, pull em to ya, and knock em off, fun!

[hwnicholson]

Why not just make low slash a root instead of a stun and add a %heal effect to exit stragedy? That would help with kitting and survivability.