Augmenting for PvE Tanking In 1.3

[cshouston]

For a frame of reference, my gear is here: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/2dd23a26-3e65-4dad-897c-0be493278980

 

My build is: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdoroGRZMcZbc.1

 

Spreadsheet used to calculate mitigation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6Yg4iBM3q8dG5Wa1VXQTF2aUotamY3ejRPa1kxMEE#gid=0

 

Admittedly, the spreadsheet is a little outdated, but I don't think the numbers would be too far off.

 

Now, I've never claimed to be very good at math, but I know some folks in the community are great theorycrafters and number crunchers, so perhaps you can help out.

 

Having played around with augments on the PTS and using AskMrRobot, if I were to load up my gear in entirely absorb augs I would gain around 6% total absorption. If I loaded up entirely in defense augs, I would gain 5% to defense, but defense is such a minimal stat for Vanguards in the first place that I probably wouldn't go that route. If I loaded up with reflex augs, ignoring the damage/crit gained, I would pick up 2000 hit points. That's *before* a stim, and the additional bonus % from soldier's endurance there.

 

Now, given that some attacks are not defensible, and cannot be shielded, going the raw HP route seems to make the most sense to me. Assuming a shieldable attack... a 10k damage hit, reduced by both DR & Absorb, with my current gear, would hit me for 2120 damage. With the additional absorb, it would hit me for 1770 damage, or a difference of 350 damage. And that's only 53% of shieldable attacks anyway, with my current shield rating.

 

To me, it seems, given the base level of my gear, taking the extra health is the better move right now. A mob would have to attack for a base of around 40,000 damage with a shieldable attack before the amount absorbed comes close to the total hp gained from endurance. That seems unlikely because if that attack were *not* shielded or dodged, with base DR it would hit for 19,280 damage which is approx 80% of my health pool in one hit, and a one-shot if it were to crit.

 

It's still early in the morning here, and maybe I'm missing something obvious, so if someone has an opposing viewpoint, please share it and prove me wrong. I don't mind being made to look foolish as long as the end result is better knowledge and a better character.

[Kaigen]

Defense augments would increase your mitigation by a greater degree than absorb augments at this point. As far as more defensive stats vs. more Aim/Endurance goes, that's a hard question to answer. Use a combat log parser to determine just what percentage of incoming attacks from bosses are defendable/shieldable, talk to your healers to see how much trouble they have keeping you up, and watch your health during the heaviest damage phases to see how quickly your HP buffer evaporates (and then check the combat log to see if the incoming damage during the damage phase is defendable or not).

 

Incidentally, I know you're asking about gear and not spec, but why no Power Armor? That DR applies to every single attack.

[cshouston]

I stopped using Power Armor once I passed 2000 endurance. The big boost in HP that I get from 3 pts in Soldier's Endurance felt worth it, overall. Maybe I'm just addicted to having a larger and larger health pool, I don't know. Right now, the only thing that actually hits hard at all is Kephess' Empowered Slash after his leaps. They hit me for an average of around 11500 damage, so I'm assuming it has a base of around 24,000 damage before mitigation. They don't appear the be shieldable, at least not in my experience (I think they're considered Tech?), so 2% from Power Armor is around 400-500 damage less per slash. Given that I get hit by a maximum of 3 of these per encounter, I just don't see the benefit. I never get hit that hard by anything else, anywhere else in the game.

 

Of course, as soon as we see nightmare mode, and future ops, and how hard they start hitting, I might reconsider.

 

My healers don't have any problem keeping up right now anyway, even through Empowered Slash. I feel like increasing my health pool will just help reduce their overhealing numbers at this point. I did some crappy napkin math on average damage reduction across the entire 8+ minute kephess encounter, and found that taking the extra absorb and power armor results in needing 175 heal/sec. *less* across the fight (not accounting for parts where spikes are what cause an increase in the average of course). Given that our healers are putting out well over 1000 hp/s, sometimes much more so, the reduction in their healing load is relatively minor.

 

I guess theres more to think about. I'm a complete min/maxer, but being more of a right-brain type than mathematically inclined left-brain type, I have to enlist help wherever possible.

Edited June 11, 2012 by cshouston

[CitizenFry]

Power Armor is WAY better than Soldier's Endurance, especially since you've already got the prereqs for it. If, after you have Power Armor, you still feel you want Soldier's Endurance, I would drop Heavy Stock for it. (My build is Power Armor, Blaster Augs, and Heavy Stock, with no points in Soldier's Endurance. Although we're having trouble with people dying right now, so I may be dropping Augs and Stock for Endurance in the near future).

 

5% dodge chance seems better than 6% absorb, and both of them are miles better than stacking even more HP. The HP does come with Aim, but the Defense and Absorb come with Power, so the offensive contribution is almost a wash.

Edited June 11, 2012 by CitizenFry

[cshouston]

That's actually not a bad idea (dropping heavy stock for endurance, but keeping power armor), especially given the upcoming stockstrike nerfs in 1.3, and the base threat modifier going from 50% to 100%. I don't have any threat issues as it is, so I think a threat buff warrants dropping 8% to stockstrike. I tried a few builds on the PTS, both without augs, and without heavy stock, and the overall difference in damage is negligible. In fact, when I augmented with reflex augs, the increased aim brought the damage of both right back up to where they originally were anyway.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdoroGRZMcbZ0c.1

 

Actually, looks great to me. I appreciate your feedback.

 

As for redoubt augments... they'd put me at 20% defense (and I noticed myself hitting diminishing returns rather heavily at the end there), but a 1 in 5 chance to dodge, which only applies to defensible attacks anyway, just feels weak to me compared to having an extra 2000+ hp cushion. I could see myself wanting to go this route if I were a Guardian or Shadow, who already have much much higher base defense stats.

Edited June 11, 2012 by cshouston

[CitizenFry]

I would come down on the opposite side... an extra 2000 hp only matters if you get below 2000hp. Extra dodge% or absorb% applies to each and every one of the 23k+ hp you already have, AND to each of the 100k+ hp your healers are going to be restoring over the course of a fight.

 

As an aside, I don't think there are any "unavoidable" attacks, I think anything can be dodged if your Defense is high enough. There are certainly unshieldable attacks though.

 

Also: if you feel like diminishing returns are hitting you hard at the end of Defense stacking, you could split the difference and go half Defense and half Absorb.

[cshouston]

Melee and Ranged attacks are Defensible and Shieldable, whereas Force and Tech attacks are not. This is consistent with other games such as WoW and RIFT, where “spell” attacks are not dodgeable / parryable and not blockable.

 

That is from Taugrim's article on avoidance and mitigation mechanics.

 

I see what you're saying about that extra hp. I very rarely get that low, in fact the only time I ever come close to hitting 0% in a spike is due to Kephess' empowered attacks, followed up by some unshielded melee attacks.

Edited June 11, 2012 by cshouston

[CitizenFry]

Hmm, you are right, I was thinking wrongly, though that quote is somewhat misleading. Force and tech attacks CAN miss/be dodged, but Defense Rating doesn't factor into the dodge% for them (in fact, there aren't many things that DO factor into that dodge%, but the 4-piece set bonus is one of them).